Knife Defences

[pgm316]

Knife defences are possibly the most neglected part of martial artists training. Traditionally knife defences weren’t a big issue because other weapons were as important and the fighter could then have their own weapon if they felt need be. And still many clubs don’t teach knife defences as an major part of their style, sometimes only squeezed in at the end of a lesson as a bit of “self defence” instead of spending full lessons working on techniques.

The importance of knife defences has recently been brought home to me as two friends have been attacked in separate incidents. One friend was sadly killed in an attack. The other, a martial arts instructor was attacked by two people both with knifes, and maybe with a bit of luck and a lot of skill managed to hospitalise his attackers.

Personally I’d like to learn more about knife defences! I feel I can have a go against a kicker, puncher, grappler but a knife attack takes the fight to another level.

Andy mentioned how ineffective the Lau Gar knife defences can be, I’d like to hear about these. Understanding why some are bad is just as important as hearing about good ones.

A knife section in the magazine articles might be of use.

[Freeform]

First of all I'm sorry about your friend, and i do agree with you on this subject.

It is interesting to note the rise in popularity of MA's now, such as Kali, which contain alot of knife work. And even within this envirnoment of people I would term knife 'experts', they will be the first to tell how ugly things can get.

I've see mentioned else where on the forum that Karl Tarnswel has brought out a video of knife defence scenario's which is quite good and reasonably workable.

Colin

[YODA]

Karl's STAB program is the best I've seen for unarmed defence against a close range knife assault. I can't recommend it enough!

Uou can order it through paypal at this link

https://www.paypal.com/prq/id=RwqDTJ9SCt6o3ASLChbBkYwJCeiXD-LI1P4h4g

or

email Rosi at rsexton@cs.man.ac.uk for other options.

[pgm316]

Thanks for the advice, the video is at the top of my shopping list!

I've been doing a fair amount of knife defences lately, I'm not sure how effective they are compared to other methods, I shall see :) They seem effective, no flowery movements.......

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by pgm316


Andy mentioned how ineffective the Lau Gar knife defences can be, I’d like to hear about these. Understanding why some are bad is just as important as hearing about good ones.



It'd be hard to describe them really. The reasons they don't work are all the obvious ones. No comprehension of what someone would do with a knife, impractical counters etc blah blah. A guy actually got a serrated Rambo knife through his bicep at a BB grading a few years back.

My own feeling is that knives are f*cking dangerous, and that 90+% of knife work taught within Style specific MA's is completely irresponsible. We may hear about the odd MA person who has survived a knife attack, but we never hear from the dead ones do we?

To be taught by specialists, or not at all in my book.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by YODA
Karl's STAB program is the best I've seen for unarmed defence against a close range knife assault. I can't recommend it enough!

Uou can order it through paypal at this link

https://www.paypal.com/prq/id=RwqDTJ9SCt6o3ASLChbBkYwJCeiXD-LI1P4h4g

or

email Rosi at rsexton@cs.man.ac.uk for other options.

I've not been able to find the video under the link :confused:

I'm probably doing something wrong, but I do intend buying it. I've mentioned it to the people I train with and there interested.

[YODA]

Just drop Rosi an email & tell her I sent you.

[pgm316]

OK, cheers Yoda, I'll do that tomorrow, its drinking time now! :)

[Cain]

Do I smell a discount here :D

|Cain|

[YODA]

Nope - that would be doing a mate (Karl) out of his income! In any case this tape is worth at least twice what they are charging for it.

Just ensuring he & Rosi know I'm spreading the word :D

pgm316 where are you based?

[Cain]

Hey, that was meant to be a j/k, I would be surprised if u took it seriously :D

|Cain|

[pgm316]

I've emailed Rosi for some info on Karl's STAB program, I mentioned you pointed me in their direction Dave.

I'm based in Blackburn. I have mentioned the video to one of my instuctors and he's interested. Definitely something we've never covered enough!

[YODA]

Blackburn?????????

I thought you where MILES away!

Get yer ass down to our place in Haydock sometime & say Hi :D

[TkdWarrior]

Man i want to learn Kali/escrima :(
-TkdWarrior-

[Andrew Green]

Spar with them, that has to be a part of the training otherwise you will just end up with a huge sense of false confidence.

Most knife defences are useless becuase they are based on unrealistic and super-exagerrated attacks done with no intent to actually hit. After the initial "attack" the attacker stops and dummies for the defender. The defender is then free to do all sorts of cool and fancy things that wouldn't work if the attacker reacted in any way except the "correct" way.

Knife sparring makes you realise how much it sucks to fight someone with a knife, you will get cut unless you are very lucky, its just a matter of where, how deep and how many times.

[Cain]

How about using that Bruce Lee kick in enter the dragon where Bruce breaks off the bad guy's arm holding the bottle :D

No seriously I would go with Andrew on this one - Spar with it.....not the real knife, the rubber one I mean :D

|Cain|

[pgm316]

Originally posted by YODA
Blackburn?????????

I thought you where MILES away!

Get yer ass down to our place in Haydock sometime & say Hi :D

I just get a feeling saying Hi is going to be a painfull experience ;)

and its Blackburn erm Arizona! :D

give me a few years to psyche myself up for it! :eek:

[pgm316]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
How about using that Bruce Lee kick in enter the dragon where Bruce breaks off the bad guy's arm holding the bottle :D

No seriously I would go with Andrew on this one - Spar with it.....not the real knife, the rubber one I mean :D

|Cain|

They had a group of people doing knife defences last night, and a bit of a debate started on whether to use a kick or not.....

Arguments were you could keep them at greater distance with the kick..... Hit them before them hit you....... Possibly kick the knife from their hand.......

The kick works better in training when someone is stepping in with an obvious lunge! The kind of range you could possibly escape from anyway:D

My question is, do you consider a kick a usefull technique? Usefull in certain circumstances? Or not at all?

[YODA]

Not at all - any knifer worth his salt will be inside kicking range before you see the knife, IF you see the knife.

[Knight_Errant]

The self defence book seems to think not. It says explicitly 'do NOT attempt to kick the knife out of his hand'. It also says:
'look for a blocking object, such as a chair.
Get some protection- a hard jacket around one arm will offer minimal protection
stay away from the knife, if your attacker is slashing
if he is using a stabbing action, take the blade on a briefcase or handbag
Use a stick, broom, umbrella to parry the knife hand'.
Is this advice any use?

[Aegis]

We do a fair bit of knife work in my style of jujutsu, and we work against some common attacks:

high thrust
low thrust
forehand slash
backhand slash
uppercut style attack to groin
hooking attack to kidneys

reverse grip downwards stab


The best way to train these is to get a couple of defences against each attack. Practise these with a partner while you know what's coming, increasing the speed and power until they're attacking you at full speed. Note that this is with exaggerated attacks to allow you to get used to the technique.


Once you have defences down for everything, start randomising them, starting out being a bit slower than full speed and still exagerating, then increasing in speed and subtlety. Eventually you become accustomed to picking out the shifts in movement that signal an attack.

This is of course not an exact science, and you will never be truly prepared for a knife attack.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by YODA
Not at all - any knifer worth his salt will be inside kicking range before you see the knife, IF you see the knife.

Thats what I was thinking. I definitely wouldn't try and kick the arm or worse still try and kick the knife out of their hand.

The only time I thought a kick could be used is Ti Kwon do style as you kick their body to keep them out of stabbing range and hopefully do some damage! :eek: Still not a technique that should be considered?

But, obviously with knife attacks you need to have a good game plan for if and when it comes to the crunch.

I've currently been concentrating mainly on the STAB video material that YODA recommended a while back, the more simplistic wrestling style of take control of the attacking arm.

[YODA]

I've currently been concentrating mainly on the STAB video material that YODA recommended a while back, the more simplistic wrestling style of take control of the attacking arm.

:D Good man :D

[Sub zero]

I think that the best knife defence is to run.As fast as you can (unless protecting freinds or family)
Knife defences should only be considered when u have no other alternative.
When defending against a knife, u must accept that u will get cut and slahed.Theres no way around it.However whats important is that u get out live.
A for kicking a knife(in the personshand)I have seen this technique.But i don't think i would ever be confident enough to use it in a real situation.Mindu my mind may just make a split second decison without my knowledge and kick it neway!

[pgm316]

A bit distracted after a Merc landed upside down outside my house! :eek:

All been sat outside being nosey for the last hour while they've been moving cars around to work out what happened, apparantly the stories didn't match up to the skid marks!

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Sub zero
I think that the best knife defence is to run.As fast as you can (unless protecting freinds or family)
Knife defences should only be considered when u have no other alternative.
When defending against a knife, u must accept that u will get cut and slahed.Theres no way around it.However whats important is that u get out live.
A for kicking a knife(in the personshand)I have seen this technique.But i don't think i would ever be confident enough to use it in a real situation.Mindu my mind may just make a split second decison without my knowledge and kick it neway!

Running is a good option, expecially if you can run faster than the person with the knife or it may end up it in your back! :D

As with any incident we've got to assume we can't get out of it when we discuss defending ourself. Which is another reason we probably won't have time to put a kick in as if there lunging from a great distance.

With knife defences I believe it should be more than a split second decision. You should consider now the ways in which you want to react and drill them to be like second nature. I know loads of people with a great variety of ways to defend against the knife but no real strategy.

[Sub zero]

Originally posted by pgm316
Running is a good option, expecially if you can run faster than the person with the knife or it may end up it in your back! :D



With knife defences I believe it should be more than a split second decision. You should consider now the ways in which you want to react and drill them to be like second nature. I know loads of people with a great variety of ways to defend against the knife but no real strategy.


Ia agree that it should be a split second decision.BUt running is hwat iteach and many other instructors i know teach it too.It is the best knife defence.Not being there to have the kniofe in you.

I have found that with exercises in the class that people, when u run, odn't throw the knife they alwys run after you.

Infact one of my old instructors was attacked with a knife.He ran.As fast as he could.Then when the gu started to catch up with him.He very quickly turned around and booted him in the knee.

If we were discussing a situstion where there was no way out, sorry i didn't realise that.I just always try nd reitarate the point that thefirst thig u should do is run.:D

[pgm316]

Many knife attacks sadly don't give you the chance to run, or your chance to run is likely to have been before you even see a knife, by which time its too late!

It sounds like your knife training is mainly running? :D

Do you do any knife defences? ;)

I dug this old thread up to ask about whether people thought a kick against knife attack was effective, which seems to be mainly a no answer.

[YODA]

I dug this old thread up to ask about whether people thought a kick against knife attack was effective, which seems to be mainly a no answer.


Maybe they tried it and are all in A&E with knives stuck in their feet? :D

[pgm316]

Good point! :D

[Sub zero]

lol.

And yes we do teach knofe defences.But i try to teach people to think of there own ones and them drill them into them (aside form the 7 syllubus ones)I think there should be more.But i have learned more in other martial arts classes.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Sub zero
lol.

And yes we do teach knofe defences.But i try to teach people to think of there own ones and them drill them into them (aside form the 7 syllubus ones)I think there should be more.But i have learned more in other martial arts classes.

7 ??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

They've invented another one?

There were only ever 6 in Lau Gar in my day.

How ever will I defend myself against a knife now???


Three words for you Sub Zero;

Fully Resisting Opponent !

[Sub zero]

Originally posted by Andy Murray



Three words for you Sub Zero;

Fully Resisting Opponent !


Erm.I completly agree.But i think that if u knew more knife defences and trained hard (for years) then that would help in "fully resiting opponent".

[Andy Murray]

8 or 9 maybe?

[Sub zero]

No.
If u had the chance would you run andy?

[YODA]

Bwaaaaaahahhahaaaaa

Why not go for complete mastery - 10!!!!!!

[Sub zero]

When did i ever say that i liked the fact that were few knife defences in my style (syullubus wise neway.)
I think that fully resiting ur oponenet is more important than knowing techniques.But isn't not being there to be stabed the best way of resisting.
I wouldn't like to take my chances (nor would any sane person) against a guy with a knife(if i had a chance to run,which yes isn't always possible)

[YODA]

It's not about numbers of techniques - it's about realistic training methods - and defending against a compliant buddy who holds his arm out while you apply "knife defence No 3b" just doesn't fit the bill.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Sub zero
No.
If u had the chance would you run andy?

If that was an option yes absolutely,
but there is not a Billion to one chance that any Lau Gar Knife Defence would be seen within a hundred miles of an effective defence against a Knife weilding aggressor.

A guy down in Brum got a Combat Knife through his Bicep trying No/1 at BB Grading, just imagine what might happen if someone was actually trying to cut you with one. Or, God forbid, knew how to use one?

[Sub zero]

Originally posted by Sub zero
I
When defending against a knife, u must accept that u will get cut and slahed.Theres no way around it.However whats important is that u get out live.


It is a harsh fact that u have to realise within the second of suspecting ne this or being attackd.

I tried to find something else that i thouugbt i said.Maybe i didn't.
I try to get students to improvise a defence against knife attacks instantly.But i do not promise them they would work.as i do not promise them that the syllubus knife defences would work.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Sub zero
But i do not promise them they would work.as i do not promise them that the syllubus knife defences would work.

Nice Disclaimer there, though I'm not sure it would stand up in court should one of your students get slashed.

"I did my best to improvise, but he had a real knife your honour"

Don't teach knife work unless you can really deal with them yourself!

I've done this myself in the past. Look for some serious information on the subject, and be responsible about what you educate people with.

What you teach, makes you responsible for the safety of your students.
Do you want to stand in front of some kids parents and explain why their kid is scarred for life, or even dead?

If you are not teaching a workable/realistic, effective Blade defence system, then all you are doing is instilling false confidence in people!

[Sub zero]

Not true.I believe iteach people that they should fight as much as they can but aslo as effectivly as they can.However, i do tell them that yes they will probably get scarred, slashed and will probably end up in hospital trying to defend against a knife.
But if they survive then it is a succesful defence.
The only reason that i tell my students that i can not promise them that they will work is because i hae not tested them my selves.

And u don't seem to have understtod my former post (Or maybe it's just my terrible typing).I try to get them to improvise.But then drill as many of thses improvised techniques into them.So they should become automatic.(for the right attack othcourse).
I ask them to improvise to see what they would do naturaly.If it is an effective tecnique then i will ask themto continually practice it.It isalso a test to see how well the student has understood the mechanics of defnding against a knife .
Sorry i didn't explain that fully.
I never intended it to mean that they should improvise on the spot.Sorry bout that.

And i would take resposibility.BUt if the person had survived then i would othcourse be sorry for ne scarring etc, but they had survived.Which i believe should be the only real goal of knife defence (if u cameout without a cut i believe u wouldbe extremly lucky)

I teach this becasue i hae been taught to by instructors who have delt with knife defences.PLus students, of all grades in my clases who work/worked the doors.

[Andy Murray]

I don't doubt your intentions Sub, nor your ability to relay on what you have been taught.

It only takes one slash in the wrong place for a person to empty their body of blood in under 10 seconds.

If you can name these arteries, and describe how your defenses take them into account, then I apologise sincerely.

[Sub zero]

Tahnks and sorry i should have been clearlrer.
Yes arteries ar the biggest problem in knife defence.
We first teach tehcniques (without a knife) tha use htese arteries.Then,i believe, it makes it eaier foe a student to learn how to defend them.

What i lucky is that i am told that most knife attacks don't aim for the neck.(as i'm sure u r aware there are several weak points ther.E.g corote arteries)When stabbed ther i have been told by instructors/nurses you could be dead within under 4 seconds.

Othcourse no matter where u get satbbed, it is potential life threating when combined with other stabs.Or jsu by itself.
(maybe lucky was the wrong word to use)
And i'm sorry for speling the arterie wrong.I really am hopeless at spelling
Ne body know how to spell it?

[Andy Murray]

Sub,
if you do one thing this month, then look into this seriously!

I know EXACTLY what you are teaching.

I have only the best intention in saying this to you, but you are way way way off the mark.

Look at the STAB program mentioned by YODA on the first part of this thread for a start.

And check your PM box please!

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Sub,
if you do one thing this month, then look into this seriously!

I know EXACTLY what you are teaching.

I have only the best intention in saying this to you, but you are way way way off the mark.

Look at the STAB program mentioned by YODA on the first part of this thread for a start.

And check your PM box please!

I'd have to agree, I got the video a while back.

It'll help your training go beyond the normal drill work.

I still wouldn't want to teach knife defences, I'd always feel I was giving some a bullet proof vest that doesn't stop bullets! :D But, it really is the teachers duty to be well informed and teach whats widely regarded as most effective, I'd say forget to a large extent what your style says.....

I find it difficult to work out how effective certain things will be, with it depending so much on the attacker. Probably why the previously mentioned kicks works well against the non-resisting opponent :o

[Knight_Errant]

I remember being taught the 'kick the knife out of his hand' 'defence' once in Karate class. A bad advert for Karate if ever there was one, it would seem then...

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
I remember being taught the 'kick the knife out of his hand' 'defence' once in Karate class. A bad advert for Karate if ever there was one, it would seem then...

Some would say so :D

Been debating knife defences again with an instructor I train with.

He argued it could be used in certain circumstances, ie person stood in front of you threatening with knife, use a fast flick kick to the hand/arm and quickly compose yourself before they can move in.

Or a last resort keep them at distance stomach area kick to keep distance in a frenzied attack. With kick doing some damage before needing to move into blocking range.

Granted this will only work in certain circumstances, the jury is still out for me! I can see times when it may be of use, what worries me is you may be starting a fight instead simply giving them money etc.

[johnson]

my brother (karate for many years now) saw a couple fighting each other at the dead of night outside a petrol station. The woman was really being beaten around by the "man". He intervened by asking if she was alright and keeping his distance. The bloke unsurprisingly attacked him. To cut a long story short my brother did a take down of some sort and then hit him until he stopped moving. The woman gave him a mouthful and stomped off. My brother walked off back to his home and realised that his hand was wet. When he looked his hand had been sliced open to a oint where he could actually see the hand bones. Amazingly he just didnt know that the man had a knife at all....

The off shot of this was that he had a bit of a crisis with confidence with the martial arts and a good deal of agrophobia for quite a while ....

He did train knife attacks of various sorts but it was the surprise that was the hole in his training.

hes alright now though - just much more reluctant about doing the decent thing

[KenpoDavid]

my school (shaolin kenpo) teaches knife defenses along with all other material (open hand, club, gun and grab).

Every one of them fcuses on controlling (holding) the knife hand, most of them include breaking the knife arm, and about half include re-directing the knife into the attackers own body.

Knowing them gives me a sense of confidence, but Lord I hope I never need to use them!

None of them call for a kick to the knife wrist!

knife sparring... I'm gonna bring that up with my teacher...

David

[Kwan Jang]

-The vast majority of people who are injured in knife attacks were unaware that the subject had a knife. They thought they were punched until they see the amount of damage or the weapon is recovered from the crime scene. Most unskilled attackers (the VAST majority) use a knife the same way they punch. Krav Maga does a pretty good job of addressing this type of attack. IMO their defenses are very vulnerable to someone skilled w/ a knife. I realize your odds of facing this type of attacker on the street are almost non-existent (how many skilled knife fighters/ escrimadors/ special forces go around mugging people?), but after 23 years in escrima, some of their stuff makes me feel very vulnerable. I do think it's great for beginners, though. I think in the long term, training in escrima/kali/arnis and becoming very proficient w/ a knife yourself, both in how to use it and disarm it, is important. Also, training under adrenal stress is a must IMO as well. P.S.-As far as the foolishness of kicking the knife out of a subject's hand, even if you are a kicker at that level, you deserve to be cut(Don't watch so many movie fights). Now, kicking out their knee after faking to their eyes is another story.

[RobP]

Just a word to say that if you are serious about training knife defence, don't bother using rubber or wooden knives. Get replica metal ones, or use butter knives. The feel of metal is much more realistic , both physically and psychologically.

Also, running is not really an option unless you have a good head start - otherwise you are just presenting your back as a target.

[Aegis]

Originally posted by RobP
Just a word to say that if you are serious about training knife defence, don't bother using rubber or wooden knives. Get replica metal ones, or use butter knives. The feel of metal is much more realistic , both physically and psychologically.

Also, running is not really an option unless you have a good head start - otherwise you are just presenting your back as a target.

I'm trying to be as respectful as possible when I say this, but I think that's one of the worst ideas I've heard in a long time. Beginners to weapons work should not be exposed to a metal knife, as even blunt knives are capable of cutting or stabbing to a much greater extent than wooden ones, which should be sufficient for just about all knife training. In addition, metal knives can break, leaving very sharp points. If it breaks because of a hard thrust, this can leave a nasty puncture wound. Would you like to explain that in a court?

As an instructor, you are responsible for the safety of your students. Metal knifes should be rarely used, and only in a closed session comprised of high grades who have already done the basics of knife defence and worked with wooden knives for long enough to actually be able to carry out defences safely. In addition, those doing the attacking should have trained to be able to pull the attack at the last second if necessary, as otherwise students will get hurt eventually.

Even with these precautions, accidents do happen with metal blades, so I'd hate to think what could happen in a class of low grades.

[RobP]

Well, for one thing we don't have grades in our style and people are exposed to knife defence training early on.

In all the time of using metal training knives we have had no accidents, safety is always emphasised. We don't train to pull attacks in any event, whether working with knives or empty hand - we feel it gives false feedback and has a chance of encouraging people to pull strikes generally.

Our advanced people train with live blades. This is also quite common in the specialist knife fighting arts too. Of course safety is always the main issue, but realism is important too

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Kwan Jang
-P.S.-As far as the foolishness of kicking the knife out of a subject's hand, even if you are a kicker at that level, you deserve to be cut(Don't watch so many movie fights). Now, kicking out their knee after faking to their eyes is another story.

Doing it in a real situation is foolish, discussing it here is clever! ;)

Doing it during the attack itself would be foolish, what about when they stand in front you waving it around in a threatening way, would be easy to hit the arm with a kick? But this idea still worries me a lot!

What I think is more doable is putting a big thrust kick into their stomach as they lunge in. Seeing as your leg is longer than their arm how many unskilled fighters would deal with the kick to get close enough to stick the knife in your body?

[ballistic]

Have any of you seen the knife program that Andy Gibney and Mo Teauge put together? If so what did you think?

[chaozkingz]

I have just started my tanto vs tanto and tanto vs unarmed part of my training about 2 months ago, and damn its hard......

what we do is usually spar with each other, and the drills that starts from grabbing that arm (not the knife, the arm), then applying whatever it is that we can think of. the attacks are kept as random because we can never tell how someone is going to attack u.

i also find that the best way to train this is to give ur friend a rubber knife, and tell him to start attacking u. the more u train with different ppl, the better it is.

it doesn't have to be a martial artist that u train with, just get ur friends or flatmate or girlfriend or whoever it is to start attacking u with it.

[deCadena]

when i first got introduced to kali it was astounding. it showed me even though how long you have trained but if one has neglected knife tactics one would be at a great loss. my friend has showed has taught me for a while and when he introduced me to his teacher man o man i don't want to ever cross his path. :)

train people train. the edged weapon is pretty common on street encounters. :)

[Jim]

Ok, ok, ok... Just order Karl Tanswell's S.T.A.B. programme on video (hopefully it works on my Oz system). Let you know what I think when I've had the chance to see it.

[ballistic]

I would definalty agree that Karl Ts video is fantastic! but if you want any suplimental kali knife traning you check out Ron Balicki's defensive edge vol 1-3

[ballistic]

sorry i mean you could check out rons tapes!
sorry about the typo

[ballistic]

if you are interested in fighting with the knife Lynn Thompsons "warriors edge dvds are very good!

[Stolenbjorn]

And this article; http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html -was an eye-opener for me (as I instruct daggerfighting in my WMA-class).

[Domenico]

Animal, yeah!!!! :)

Marc used to work out at the Renaissance Faire in Agoura, and the tales of misadventure that have followed this guy are amazing, quite literally something of legend. He appproaches everything with a simple, "so, you want to live, right?" philosophy, and makes no bones about how to go about it.

[Wax]

Oh how I love a good necromancing...

Thinking about the comments of kicks to the stomach, how common is the reaction to a stomach blow to be a down swing of hands? It is (or was) for me, and if it is for the knife weilder then you are going to get a slash across the leg. This will make further escape harder when the oppertunity arises.

[Vanir]

And this article; http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/knifelies.html -was an eye-opener for me (as I instruct daggerfighting in my WMA-class).
Great link! I had a good laugh in parts and kinda got scared at some others...and I've been attacked by serious guys with knives twice, stabbed once and played with them enough myself to have thought between the two I'd grown "str33t" where that was concerned (us humans just have this tendancy towards arrogant complacency, huh? I try not to do that honestly I do).

Got a new attitude now. Thanks for the life-saver ;)

Always learning, always living. Think I'll make a sig out of that perspective.

[tellner]

If you're interested in Marc MacYoung's stuff you might want to get in touch check out his former partner in crime and source for a lot of his stuff - Mushtaq Ali Al Ansari. Mushtaq has a blog (http://tracelesswarrior.blogspot.com) and a martial arts website (http://zulfakr.com). In the knife videos he's the tall guy with long hair and a long face. In Guru Plinck's Bukti Negara/Serak video from Paladin Press he's the guy doing most of the knifing.

[mannie de matos]

Hi everyone,
I dont know about you but i've studied three knife systems. Two filipino and one military and i must say that all of them made me feel suicidal when confronted with a knife.
I was always told to engadge the knife from long, middle and close ranges and not to escape the knife.
The only system that i've ever experienced that only engadges the knife is Hakarac Blade Boxing and that engadgement is close range only.
Every other range you have an escape option.
If you've been taught to engadge the knife and feel confident with a rubber or wooden knife but feel suicidal if it was a real knife please share your thoughts.

Mannie de Matos

[shootodog]

Hi everyone,
I dont know about you but i've studied three knife systems. Two filipino and one military and i must say that all of them made me feel suicidal when confronted with a knife.
I was always told to engadge the knife from long, middle and close ranges and not to escape the knife.
The only system that i've ever experienced that only engadges the knife is Hakarac Blade Boxing and that engadgement is close range only.
Every other range you have an escape option.
If you've been taught to engadge the knife and feel confident with a rubber or wooden knife but feel suicidal if it was a real knife please share your thoughts.

Mannie de Matos

didn't you post the same thing here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39293