Fighting question

[TigerMantis]

I am wondering how much time your teachers dedicate to full contact fighting? For example in my school we do various two man exercises (practicing techniques, push hands, throwing practice, conditioning, etc.) spread throughout the year. Then in the month of june we gear up and smack heck out of each other using the art appropriate for the class (Tai Ji, Xing Yi, Ba Gua). Fighting is pretty much the only thing that takes place in June. The amount of gear used depends on the skill of the two people fighting.

[Guo_Xing_Yi]

80% of my time is taken up with fighting. 0% of my time is taken up using pads. (un) fortunately.

Yes it does bloody hurt. :)

[.Mash.]

that sounds like a good system really, cus then you can hone your skills all year round, then see how they work for just one month, so chances are you wont get any serioyus or long term damage.

[TigerMantis]

Guo. What do you spend the remainig 20% of your training time on? You must get pretty banged up doing all of that fighting but I will bet that you are probably tough from it (and good at fighting).

that sounds like a good system really, cus then you can hone your skills all year round, then see how they work for just one month, so chances are you wont get any serioyus or long term damage.

Mash. That is part of the idea. The reason for restricting the hardcore fighting to one part of the year has a couple of reasons as far as I can tell.

1. Give the body time to heal from any injuries acquired during fighting and not add to them.

2. The month of fighting narrows the focus down to one thing done for a relatively long period so people may be able to make large gains during that time.

3. While my teacher definitely feels that the three main internals (Xing Yi, Ba Gua, Tai Ji) are martial arts and not just health exercises he does also cover the health aspects of the three. The idea is to first make a person healthy, then strong, then teach them how to fight.

There are more reasons I am sure but I cannot think of them right now. That all being said this is not a "my teachers way is the greatest way" thing. I am just curious how other internal martial art schools out there are structured especially in terms of how much time is spent on full contact fighting

[daftyman]

Full contact fighting? We train in Glasgow so we don't need to train we just do! :p

But seriously, virtually none of us would be able to remain relaxed and loose enough to be actually using taiji principles as opposed to bog-standard fighting skills. Full contact fighting does not really interest me. I have enough to do just trying to improve the other areas of the art.

[Guo_Xing_Yi]

Guo. What do you spend the remainig 20% of your training time on? You must get pretty banged up doing all of that fighting but I will bet that you are probably tough from it (and good at fighting).



Mash. That is part of the idea. The reason for restricting the hardcore fighting to one part of the year has a couple of reasons as far as I can tell.

1. Give the body time to heal from any injuries acquired during fighting and not add to them.

2. The month of fighting narrows the focus down to one thing done for a relatively long period so people may be able to make large gains during that time.

3. While my teacher definitely feels that the three main internals (Xing Yi, Ba Gua, Tai Ji) are martial arts and not just health exercises he does also cover the health aspects of the three. The idea is to first make a person healthy, then strong, then teach them how to fight.

There are more reasons I am sure but I cannot think of them right now. That all being said this is not a "my teachers way is the greatest way" thing. I am just curious how other internal martial art schools out there are structured especially in terms of how much time is spent on full contact fighting

The other 20% is usually spent talking such things as "for gods' sake stop hitting me there, its dead already ok?!!" or "yes my arm IS broken" or "what if i do...." or "Isn't that like bagua or taichi?" or... :eek:

[TigerMantis]

I agree with you vampyre rat that the internal arts are about more than just learning to fight (this of course depends on how a particular teacher teaches). I think that these arts can really increase a persons quality of life in a lot of ways. I respect the fact that full contact fighting doesnt really apeal to you.

Getting back to the benefits of internal arts, I think that the process of learning to face confontation using the principles of the internal art in question is part of what makes them so beneficial for the practitioners. For myself if I dont face somebody really trying to attack full force I will never know if I can manifest the relaxation, structure, calm attitude (internal stillness) of the internals in a chaotic situation. As well as seeing if you can apply your art in a fighting situation I think that the benefits would also spill over into other areas of your life. Keeping a cooler head in other stressful situations and such.

Then again if someone grew up in a situation where fighting was a daily occurence maybe they wouldnt need to experience that as much as they have already had a lot of exposure. I guess that part of it really does depend on the persons past experience.

Just thinking out loud.

[daftyman]

... I think that these arts can really increase a persons quality of life in a lot of ways.
... As well as seeing if you can apply your art in a fighting situation I think that the benefits would also spill over into other areas of your life. Keeping a cooler head in other stressful situations and such.
Good post TigerMantis, I think people get too hung up on taiji being a health or combat art and forget to explore the art to its fuller extent.

sidenote: I lived in Glasgow for 13 years and can count the number of fights I've been in on the fingers of one head! :D

It is the other areas that I do prefer this art for. Increasing leg strength and mobility in the hips (I'm only 32 so not decrepit yet, just making sure I don't become so.) My ability to relax in those stressful situations (dentinst chair! :eek: ) and to maintain my own emotional root. To keep balanced in the face of all the types of 'attacks' that come my way. That for me is the true 'martial' ability that these arts can give you. Your ability to defend/protect yourself from all that life can throw at you (physical, emotional, psychological, etc).

Though saying that, I am a huge fan of push-hands, da-lu, sword fencing, so I am not avoiding the 'combat' side just not taking it to the 'extreme'. :cool:

[TigerMantis]

Funny that you mention the dentists chair. I just had oral surgery (tissue graft) last week. I hear you on the age thing. I am about to turn thirty and while that is still young I can definitely feel that things are not the same as they were 10 years ago.

Part of the reason for this fighting question is that I want to start teaching soon. I want my students to know how to use the art for defense but at the same time I dont want a rooom full of physically trashed students. I will probably teach much the same way as my teacher does but there is always room for improvement. So at this point I am thinking of doing stuff like light sparring, push hands, throwing practice, conditioning, forms, etc. for ten months out of the year. Then have a month twice a year more dedicated to fighting.

Of course this is all tentative and I may go back to one month of heavy fighting a year.

[TigerMantis]

Guo when you fight, are you fighting full contact just to the body or is any target fair game?

[Yukimushu]

You only spar one month a year?

[notquitedead]

That's not enough practice...we usually spend almost the entire lesson sparring or rolling.

[TigerMantis]

My school spends one month doing full contact hard as you can go sparring and then lighter sparring stuff during the rest of the year.

[Guo_Xing_Yi]

Guo when you fight, are you fighting full contact just to the body or is any target fair game?

We do xing yi. Any target is fair game, though we try and not be stupid by killing each other.

People have been injured.

We aim to test the people to their level of skill, not just batter them. Hence, if you're a guy who's been doing it 10 years, you'll find it just as difficult to fight, as if you were the new guy doing it for the first time.

Enjoy.

[cybermonk]

though we try and not be stupid by killing each other.


Thats always good.

[Yukimushu]

hehe yeah, killing your sparring partner is wrong... It's very counter productive to your learning and practising of techniques :P

[AAAhmed46]

Since my classes are about twice a week for two hours each class, we devout only half an hour to sparring.

[TigerMantis]

posted by AAAhmed46: Since my classes are about twice a week for two hours each class, we devout only half an hour to sparring.

What kind of sparring is it generally? What are the acceptable targets? How much protective gear do you use? Is it light sparring or heavy contact? Is it only striking or is throwing allowed? Just wondering.