Sparing

[Fergie Boy]

How hard do you spar?

I think I am hitting a little too had when I spar, but I can't work out how to throw the punches quickly with the correct form without them being heavy, I also find that my 14 oz sparring gloves make my form a littl loose r a lot loose really. Anyone got any advise?

[pgm316]

Not as hard as I used too! ;)

I think you’ve got to differentiate between different types of sparring.

Do the light semi contact sparring to work on technique keeping good form etc, gloves and padding aren’t needed and you know you can make bad mistakes without being punished for it.

Heavy sparring with as much padding and gloves as possible. This will be very different from the light sparring, maybe less of a learning exercise in one sense, but you’ll learn because your pressure testing what you know.

A lot of people blend the types of sparring together, I believe they miss out because of this, neither doing one or the other properly.

[AndyD]

A lot of people also think that sparring is negative towards training for real fighting.

[YODA]

Originally posted by AndyD
A lot of people also think that sparring is negative towards training for real fighting.

True.

There are people who beleive in the tooth fairy too :D

Sparring is essential IMHO.

We spar in one form or another in maybe 90% of our classes.

[TkdWarrior]

<There are people who beleive in the tooth fairy too :D>

u mean....
u mean ... aint' that truth...??? :confused:
i wonder how the hell did i collected 100 bucks then ???
-TkdWarrior-

[AndyD]

Yoda said "Sparring is essential IMHO."

I agree - as a transitional thing. I don't agree with the people that dismiss sparring having never done it (actually, that goes for anything in martial arts) as it does help with some very important elements but after a certain point I believe it acts against your development if you're training for real fighting.

Of course, as they say, "different strokes for different folks" :)

[pgm316]

Yoda said "Sparring is essential IMHO."


Essential for what........

You can get something out of whatever you do, including the people that train without sparring. On the other hand you only get out, what you put in! :p



Originally posted by AndyD

I agree - as a transitional thing. I don't agree with the people that dismiss sparring having never done it (actually, that goes for anything in martial arts) as it does help with some very important elements but after a certain point I believe it acts against your development if you're training for real fighting.

Of course, as they say, "different strokes for different folks" :)

You even beleive heavy sparring will work against you?

I think its close enough to fighting to avoid that.

Drills are fine, but they often don't teach the spontanious un coreographed stuff.

[Cain]

By practising your drills you can test your weapons

By sparring you can test your mind and your weapons under pressure

For me if you are not sparring then it's like winning a fighting video game assuming you are doing the real thing, but you'd get knocked out in 3 secs in a real fight

|Cain|

[SpongeBob]

Sparring we do tonnes of it, ranging from light contact with lots of rules, to hard contact with very little rules.

Sparring is good, but not to everyones tastes.

[AndyD]

pgm316 said " You even beleive heavy sparring will work against you?

I think its close enough to fighting to avoid that. "

Even heavy. The mindset with sparring is one of exchanging blows. Are you willing to take even one hit on the street? Are you willing to break your hand hitting the wrong part of your opponts head?

Of course, it all depends on your definition of sparring....

[pgm316]

Even heavy. The mindset with sparring is one of exchanging blows. Are you willing to take even one hit on the street? Are you willing to break your hand hitting the wrong part of your opponts head?

Of course, it all depends on your definition of sparring....


I agree with what you say Andy, but what else can we do. I still think the benefits far outweigh the negatives. It’s the closest we’ll get to practising our skills, what else can we do……


Sparring we do tonnes of it, ranging from light contact with lots of rules, to hard contact with very little rules.

Sparring is good, but not to everyones tastes.

I agree with this SpongeBob! Pretty much the way I use sparring.

[Cain]

Sparring is the closest possible you can get to training realastically.

*Hiding under the bed and hoping he has'nt opened a can of worms*

|Cain|

[SpongeBob]

An old sensei of mine said 'If you want to fight with a knife you have to expect to get cut'.

The same goes for empty hand. If you intend to hit someone, you inevitably will get hit back. Sparring gets you used to this situation and conditions your mind and body to being hit. To say that you train to never ever get hit in a street fight has to be a little risky? Though I would never like to get hit in a street fight, I do expect it to happen, due to the radom nature of a street fight.

In club sparring you know what your opponents style is and as such can predict his or her fighting style. In the street you have no idea what someones strengths and weakness are. You have to find them and in doing so, may get struck in the process.

Learning where to hit someone so as not to break your hand is all part of sparring. If you can't hit them there during a sparring match when they are moving and resisting, how will you do it on the street?

To say that hitting them there is dangerous as you'll KO so you don't spar it, is a poor response and one I've heard often. People who say this should go to the local boxing club and say this. I'm sure these guys will give you the oppotunity to try your thoughts out.

Again these are only my theories and I do wholely understand why people wouldn't want to spar, but the facts do stand that sparring is a valuable part of training. Where you use it or not is upto you.

[Cain]

Excellent points Bob, hmm.....maybe we should'nt discuss this too heavily, see wat happend to CKD thread ;)

|Cain|

[SpongeBob]

My lips are sealed.

But I will say that I did Aikido for two years, and we never sparred in that and to be honest it didn't need to. Aikido is a good example of a martial art that doesn't need sparring in it's Art

[pgm316]

Yeah good post Bob!

You've got to expect to get hit and train hard enough to get hit! Someone once said on here, "why use a pre-emptive strike when your blocks will be effective 99% of the time!" They've obviously not sparred hard, and thinking you'll get through a street fight unhurt is the wrong mindset! I think your more likely to get hurt this way and then you'd probably go to pieces!

Sorry for the excessive use of the exclamation mark! ;)

[johndoch]

I remember during my early sparring days I used to jump around, chase opponents, use big steps to evade attacks. As you can guess I got tired pretty quickly but as time got on I learnt to be more economical in my movement, how to hit and be hit hand how to evade and stay in range. Once I got to this level I believe that my extra stamina/endurance came from a number areas that I had trained through sparring:

1. Economical movement.
2. Staying calm under pressure from attacks.
3. aerobic workout.

Without sparring you will not be able to train aspects 1 & 2 to any great level. Thats why I think sparrings important to me.

[AndyD]

The mindset required for sparring is not the same as that required for a real fight.

Many years ago I held sparring in high regard and for several years, a couple of times a week I did it. Naturally there were people who relished it and became very good at it, there were others who didn't do so well (for whatever reason) and prefered more drill oriented training where rather than an exchange of the blows the training would involve disposing of an attacker quickly and decisively.

The interesting thing is what occurred when these people were involved in real fights. The people who preferred the sparring tended to end up 'slugging it out' and taking a lot of knocks themselves while the guys who trained drills more tended to have very quick and decisive fights with very little damage to themselves. My belief is that this is not because of the physical training but because the guys that drilled had developed the correct mindset - one of getting in and making the quick kill.

[ROBERT]

You do realize that the "drill oriented training" is considered sparring.

Robert

[Cain]

I really fail to see how drill oriented training can be a substitute for sparring

|Cain|

[SpongeBob]

Well we all know sparring isn't to everyone tastes.

Some fight for points, which true may not be all that practical for the streets. Some don't like sparring because they may get hurt.
Again a valid point, not everyone is that inot pain.

But if you spar full contact minimum rules, it is very much like a street fight. Okay you wont die, but you are getting hurt, cut and put in a bad position. So what part of that isn't like a brawl?

There are many types of saprring and I think your generalising to much on your own or your friends experiences. People who spar also drill techniques on the pads, so were doing both sides of the coin. You do one.

If you put me in a room with two people, one who had 10 years of training in a street fighting, but had never sparred or fought before. The other 10 years training in Muay Thai and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu (both sparring arts) and ask me to fight one, I know who I'd rather fight.

Each to their own as they say, do what ever you feel will best prepare your for the street.

[johndoch]

"If you put me in a room with two people, one who had 10 years of training in a street fighting, but had never sparred or fought before. The other 10 years training in Muay Thai and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu (both sparring arts) and ask me to fight one, I know who I'd rather fight."

Hi Bob

Who would u rather Fight?

[SpongeBob]

:D doh I was hoping no one would ask that and then errupt into a huge argument.

Well this is just my blinkered opinion from my biased view not taking into account lots of other factors.............

The street fighting one

[pgm316]

I'd second that!

[SpongeBob]

Oh dear pgm316 I think we may well have to run for cover now.

hopefully not though ;)

It is just our opion and not worth getting to hot under the collar about :D :D

[TkdWarrior]

come to think of it... i'll fight street fighter too :D
MT is damn hard...
-TkdWarrior-

[johndoch]

Initially I thought streetfighter. Then I thought if I knew they were trained in a particular style I could use that against them. A streetfighter may have a brutal varied style and they could have the endurance of a kenyan long distance runner.

This could be a can of worms, I think I'll sit on the fence till I give it more thought.

"Thump" John falls off fence

[TkdWarrior]

can of worms??
hey Doc let's go fishing... it would be Fun...
-TkdWarrior-

[SpongeBob]

Hugely true johndoch but this is a street fighter who's never sparred.

One who's sparred and learnt what you do from sparring would probably be a different story all together.

:D

[TkdWarrior]

even then i guess our Typical MT fighter will hit more harder than anyone... :D
-TkdWarrior-

[SpongeBob]

;) yeah I think a good thai/bjj guy would take alot of beating :d

but don't tell anyone I said that ;)

[YODA]

I think what Spongebob is calling a "Streetfighter" is being mistunderstood here. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that he's talking about a "Martial arts for the street" stylist rather than a guy who doesn't do martial arts but just fights on the street.

You know the ones, "our art is too deadly to spar" -- "MT and BJJ are just sports" -- "I'd just stick my thumb in your eye" - you know, the one's who have not only missed the boat but have turned up at the wrong harbour :D

[SpongeBob]

Yes your not wrong.

I did say a street fighting style guy who had never sparred or fought (how your a street fighter then I don't know, hmmmmm I'm a little dumb). In otherwords had no practical experience of fighting real terms.

Ah I'm safe now I have Yoda to sheild me with the force.

[Cain]

Ah I'm safe now I have Yoda to sheild me with the force.

LOL! But, beware of the dark side :yeleyes:

Yikes! Yoda, it was just a joke, oh brother please don't hurt me :(

|Cain|

[johndoch]

I would have to agree then, I would go for the streetfighting "stylist" as being the easier choice. You cant deny that the JJ or MT would know how to mix it up. However I would be wary of dirty fighting tactics but whos to say that the MT or BJJ/JJ guy wont fight dirty.

[YODA]

Originally posted by johndoch
but whos to say that the MT or BJJ/JJ guy wont fight dirty.


........ Well, from THIS "just sport" guy you can count on it :D

[pgm316]

So really, we're just putting are money on the guy that does the sparring. And rightly so!

People have pointed out the negatives to sparring, some of which I won't disagree with. Sparring isn't the one tool to make you the good fighter, only one of them :)

[johndoch]

I think the sparring element allows us to see the short comings of our art and allows us as artists to modify and add techniques that can be used on the street. If you dont spar your technique how can u understand how it is used in a live environment?

[YODA]

Martial arts without sparring is like owning a pair of binoculars in case you ever need them - but never bothering to find out that you need to take the lens cap off :D

[Freeform]

Good analogy! :D

In many cases, its not the quality of the technique, its the balls to do it, rather than pee your pants!

[Cain]

You mean I have to take off the lens cap?

I guess that explains the boo boo dragon I see everytime in my binoculars :D

|Cain|

[pgm316]

I play badminton. I always think martial arts is like practicing to play badminton without ever having a game. Sparring is pretty close to having a game, byt not quite there.

Just imagine if badminton players never played proper matches, but when they got "good" they spent most of their time telling others what to do. Doing exercises which people would debate if they'd actually work in a real game ;)

[Tosh]

That's a pretty good analogy pg.

In baddmington you can be the aggressor but one counter can turn the tables. Its a whole different ball game with another thinking calculating opponent.

[pgm316]

Its probably a good game for martial arts people to play! Its the fastest racquet game, gets you moving about, and the tactics involved with the calculating opponent like you mentioned.

[Cain]

I too luv Badminton :D

Guess I am a good martial artist :D

|Cain|

[dredleviathan]

I used to play Badminton but the Police got too interested when my "street" atttitude lead to the death of all my opponents.

I liked to pre-empt the game by ramming the shuttlecock down my opponents throat with a perfectly placed overhand smash and then hammering it home with the racquet (techniques drawn from a vigilanty cop killing Philipino master that I met in Manilla who'd done loads of time for being a total bad-ass).

"Street" is relelvant to all sections of your life and you must be constantly vigilent...

... the other day my girlfriend tried to pre-empt my hunger by serving me dinner without me asking for it. I was ready for her and ensured that I had eaten earlier in the day. That showed her - no-one gets one over on me now I'm a "street stylist".