SD class for women

[Freeform]

I've assisted in running classes like these for years now, but I'm really interested in how others would structure their classes.

We all know that these things are really just confidence boosters and the only way to really protect yourself is to do regular training, but people will always ask for courses like these.

So I'm giving you 6 classes (one a week) 2 hrs long (about standard for these things), how would you structure them?
I've got my own thoughts that I'll share later (hell, I might even nick some of yours! ;) ).

Col

[TkdWarrior]

hell i m not telling if u stealing my kungfu :D ;)

seriously when it comes to SD my thoughts r
~ it should be easily taughtable
~ it should be easily understandble
~ it should be dealt with complete reality
~ women SD class should be taught by/or help by women instructor against Men/Women
~ it should talk about understanding of environment/awareness
~ it should talk about phylosophical bent of criminal mind
~ it should talk about issuing force from the inner core.
~ it should be able to call the b!tch inside from the women(Dr. RuthLess, anyone?)
~ it should be told frankly that MA is not supposed to teach SD :D

n i can go on n on on this topic... but i m intrested in hearing from Female MAPers
-TkdWarrior-

[Freeform]

hell i m not telling if u stealing my kungfu


Damn! I was really wanting to nick some of that 'bullet-time' stuff as well. ;)

Female MAPers tell us what you want! (And I'm not talking about Yoda in his tight Lycra wrestling shorts Melanie! ;) )

Col

[ladyhawk]

First of all make sure at least one class is done where the women wear their everyday street/work clothes complete with jewelry, purses, etc. (OK, we'll pass on the high heels on the dojo floors.) The reason for this is so that these women will understand how the techniques that you are going to teach them will feel in real life and not just in the relaxed workout clothes that they tend to wear in these types of classes.

Emphasize the fact if your glasses fall off, cell phones drop, jewelry breaks, whatever that they should ignore it unless it is going to be used as a weapon or distraction.

Make all techniques simple, efficient, effective but most of all easily remembered under high stress situations. A fancy technique isn't gonna save your butt if you can't remember it.

Make them work to accomplish the techinque. An attacker is not going to passively stand there while something is done to them so let them get the feel of some of the power needed behind their techniques.

Remember everyone has different abilities and disabilities and be prepared to offer an alternative or variation to a certain technique if someone is unable to make a technique work for them.

Trust your gut instincts!

Just my .02

[pgm316]

In the Stavit SD class for women they have an unusually large portion of the training in beach wear, with a lot of oil and water used. Now this sounds a bit wrong to me, but who am I to argue with a 12th degree, red sash, HND, Stavit master!

I think you’ve got to be realistic in what the women can do, they’ll be smaller/weaker than there attackers. And it’s a basic course, so you can only teach a small number of basic strikes to the attackers vulnerable areas. And on the ground it will be the same with the use of “dirty” tactics or maybe the use of there leg strength to help them get out of there[?]

What is your curriculum for the course Freeform?

[Jay]

I think a major part of the training should be avoidance - You don't teach a child how to react when they get hit by a car, you teach them where it is safe to cross the road (not one of my quotes).

Keep any techniques simple and nasty :D

You've got to train 'Alive' - otherwise they will be in for one hell of a shock when they meet some resistance.

Suggest that every student read a copy of 'Dead or Alive' by Geoff Thompson - it's a brilliant insight into just how low some people will go, and how the 'low-life' mind works.

Jay

[r4bid]

Basic curriculum:
-teach them a few techniques for chokes and grabs
-how to throw a punch or a kick wearing restrictive (ie real life) clothing
-how to use a purse, credit card, shoe as a weapon
-general safety advice (where not to walk, yelling for help etc...)
-"sparring" or maybe I should say mugging...

Class breakdown:
I would say at the begining of every class do 20 minutes of striking practice, just the basic kicks and punches
Then 20 minutes of chokes and grabs
Then 20 minutes of moving attacker simulations

For the next hour do the special topic of the week or something like that. Things that come to mind are, multiple attackers, weapons, strange situations.



As you said, make sure they understand that this is not a end all be all martial arts class.

[ladyhawk]

Another good book to recommend is
"The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker

[pgm316]

Not sure about some of these books, Geoff Thompson is very good, but for someone doing a short course he may do more damage to there confidence than good.

Should be giving people more confidence to go out, after reading his stuff I feel too scared to leave the house now! :p

[SpongeBob]

I've taught a few and basically all I teach is

Common sense (but some people you just can't teach that to) then it's just basic striking techniques, with sparring. They get to beat the crap out of me and really go for, fuel the agression and will to live.

In six weeks there really isn't all that much you can teach them that they will actually ever remember or use. So rightly or wrongly I try to get them to develop their natural fighting instinct, slapping/punching, biting, kneeing, kicking to a better level. That way it's harder to forget.

I find blocks, dis-arms, locks, throws and chokes are all to hard to remember.

[ladyhawk]

The book "Gift of Fear" reinforces the idea to trust your instincts,
teaches awareness and what to look out for.

[Freeform]

I see alot of you have very specific ideas in mind, but I see SD classes as a place where 80% of the work is in building confidence and awareness.

Colin

[pgm316]

I agree FF, "80% of the work is in building confidence and awareness" and out of that mainly confidence, seeing as thats the reason the women are probably there in the first place.

I think its dangerous to try and teach certain techniques. Moves that'll probably not work against a stronger oppononet, especcially without much training!

[SpongeBob]

What is the definition of confidence?

Is it to stand upto the agreesor?

To be more aware of situations and surrounding?

What we teach someone can be very different depending on our defintions of confidence.

The women I've taught are mainly those who have been abused by their partners. How do you teach these people to be aware of their surrounding when they have the danger of attack right there in their homes.

The stuff they learn should be simple and natural.

The biggest point I get over to them is, if you can get away, get away, if you have to fight, fight with 110% effort, fight to win, loose is not an option, otherwise you may as well give up before you start. That's why I teach them a few basic techniques and get them to take them out on me full bore (I'm full protected ;) ) that way they know what it's like to fight a better and stronger aggressor. Not just some preset ritual where everything is planned.

After all these women aren't learning to win a competition, belt or award. They learning it to look after their lives, both physically and mentally.

[pgm316]

Erm.......

Confidence - Self-belief, Self-reliance & Self-assurance.

How you give them that is another thing. I think you’ve got it right with the keep it basic approach Bob.

Giving people a few options so they don’t feel like a helpless victim is a massive confidence booster. Often too effective when you get students thinking their unbeatable after a few months training!

I suppose its wrong to say we teach self confidence, but its an aim of the training.

[johndoch]

(1) If it dangles - Grab, Twist & Pull. ;)

[johndoch]

Seriously though I would agree with spongebobs training method and observations.

I'd bet the ladies love beating the crap outta a guy in full protection. IMO this would be fun and I believe people will remember it better if they enjoy it.

[Andy Murray]

My Wife's favourite is to dig her thumbnail into the side of the nose. Bloomin hurts I tell ya.

I'd have thought things like upwards palm heel to the jaw or nose would be worthwhile incorporating, along with eye gouging, ear pulling, finger snapping and hands edge to larynx etc.

My concern is that a women who fights back ineffectively is only going to make things worse for herself.

Stop em seeing and stop em breathing.

The Self Confidence and awareness issues have got to be of paramount importance. Not looking like a victim.

Always carrying something they can use as a weapon, be it pepper sprays, personal alarms, keys or a bodkin etc. A little bag of Cayenne pepper kept in the pocket is good.

In the case of domestic violence, the Police should be the first people to call I feel.

I read an article once concerning defence about rape. The idea that stayed with me from that, was that the woman should use the mental trigger that her whole body was on fire, and she should react instantly to beat out the flames.

Good Luck Colin.

[SpongeBob]

:D good points everyone.

On a different note that Andy Murray raised, about teaching techniques that are, how shall i put it nastier.

Now the first time I ever taught a self defence course I made it really nasty. Problem was the women were a little put off by the thought of putting their finger in someones eye (I'm not to keen on it either ;) ), etc and found the nasty things to not be of their mind set and hence forgot all of it.

This time I keep it simpler and the ones who pick it up well (the nasty women :D ) I show how to adapt the strike to be more effective.

Has anyone else found this, that teaching women (and men) the nastier techniques, unless they are of that frame of mind they either forget it, or dismiss it. Yet teach the to drive their knee into someones face is not a problem. Or may'be that's the sort of people we are here in south west england :D

[TkdWarrior]

well this note has been given by a fellow TKD girl(god Know who?)

Sir -

Is this the posting you were referring to?

Some of this may not be new info, but it never hurts to see it again.

Pass this along to all the women you know.

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.
The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m. The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught. Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years(IT' MAY BE DIFFERENT IN OTHER COUNTRIES).

If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming. These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

Several defense mechanisms he taught us are:

If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a lineup, you lose appeal as a target.

If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell "Stop!" or "Stay back!" Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back.

Again, they are looking for an EASY target. If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes), yelling "I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY!" and holding it out will be a deterrent.

If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If they grab your wrist, pull your wrist back so your hand
is in waving position (palm facing forward) and twist it toward yourself and pull your arm away. It is hard to hold onto wrist bones that are moving in that way. They stumble toward you and you stumble back, so you can use that momentum to bring the same out and backhand them with your knuckles in the forehead, nose or teeth.

If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh -HARD.
One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands -- the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you hit a guy there it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble.

Start causing trouble, and he's out of there. When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

PLEASE READ THEN FORWARD THIS TO ANY WOMAN YOU KNOW. IT'S SIMPLE STUFF THAT COULD SAVE HER LIFE.



I had it because I answered Mr. J. Martin, as follows:

You make a very good point - prevention is the KEY! Shortly after I was promoted to I Dan, I was out in downtown Denver at The Comedy Works with a group of friends. The show let out about 1:00 am, and we left in a group to get to our cars. The shortest route back to where we parked was through an alley, and one of my friends suggested we cut through - after all, she said, Karen is a black belt, she can protect us! At which point I said something like "What am I, stupid? I'm going down the street, where the lights are." Many articles on rape prevention point out clearly that the women who are most at risk are those who are least aware of their surroundings, of who do not take sufficient precautions. I was taught by my instructor that the first rule of self-defense is not to get into situations that require it - the above story being an example of avoidance as a means of self-defense.

In addition to the tips you've listed, here are some others that were presented at an in-service on the subject at the middle school where I teach - they came from a college inservice, so replace the word 'campus' with 'neighborhood' wherever appropriate:

Never walk alone on campus after dark.
When going to a party or a bar, always use the "buddy system".
Use the Campus escort service.
Always wait for your escort to arrive before leaving.
Do not take poorly lit paths.
Know the location of all campus security phones.
Keep your doors and windows locked.
Do not open your door until you know who is there.
Discuss your schedule with a few close friends.
Carry a cell phone.
Trust your instincts.
And always, ...always... be aware of your surroundings. Ask yourself: Are your friends still around? Who else is in the apartment / house / residence hall?

The other thing to remember is that most women have some type of warning - stranger rape, they told us, is the rarest kind, and the easiest to avoid. The majority of rapes are committed by someone who knows the woman he is raping, however peripherally - it may be a friend of a friend, but is most often someone the woman knows in some fashion. Of course you should trust people you know well, but the trainers were very specific that women cannot stop being aware just because they've been introduced to someone through a friend.

some good points here...
-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

my idea about Women/girls SD
well i hav talked to lots of girls/women during last 3 months
this is wat i found
1. first thing they think No One will attack them or Why the hell one will attack on them??
2. how could he(partner/relative/freind) do this?
3. i don't need SD, i m not a victim(bit of confidence)
4. i don't go out often so i don't need one(SD)
5. awareness is being paranoid.
6. BullSh!t
7. (@#&*(@#$
others u don't want to listen :D, seriously
after talking/fighting to some of female MAist(rare commodity) i concluded
1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary
2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above
3. those who takes MA seriously(even a bit) hit f*ckin hard
4. all of them hit above belt :D n none of them ever tried awareness thingies
5. even then my list above applies to them too
6. confidence?? wat the heck is that?
i hav more but rite now i m very tired
-TkdWarrior-

[ladyhawk]

TkdWarrior,
Could you please explain the following statements that you
made a little better.

"1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary"
"2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above"

[Greyghost]

ohhhh...TKD...don't fancy being in your shoes right now......

[Cain]

Tkdwarrior,

Hate to say this buddy, but I think you r in trouble,

wish u luck buddy, n tread carefully.......

|Cain|

[TkdWarrior]

"1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary"
"2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above"

sure Lady, i can explain if u don't get fumed till u finish reading n understanding what i m saying...first i'll tell u why i come to this conclusion then u'll be with me..

this is wat i call pschological n environmental conditioning, which directly creates the Unique Distinction b/w males n females in Humans(u'll notice this doesn't happen in Animals)
in only Human Species we hav created those distinction, like Male hunt, women stay at home/cave, male is stronger n female is weaker, male is Yang n female is yang
n this is 1000's years of conditioning which we hav created on our pschological mind, in a sense we hav went totally against nature...
just watch in Lions, lioness is fiercer one not Lions, She can take more than one lion at a time. same goes for other female species on earth, none of them hav this sort of conditioning.
they all depends upon Emotional Content(not from Bruce's movie)
they all share the Bonding in relationships
but still follow the nature
nuff said
-TkdWarrior-

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
"1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary"
"2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above"
-TkdWarrior-

Lemme tell ya TKD Warrior, the females on this site are definitely 'extra ordinary', and definitely not the average.

Be afraid........be very afraid :D

[TkdWarrior]

well guys watever i said is based on my findings not by any second hand source... so i know wat i m talking about... n i mean no disrespect towards Female community...
anyways i'll thank LadyHawk for not flaming me on that part :)

i hav talked to girls/females after having lots of unfortunate incidents in this part of India... things r not easy...
that's why i always say MA doesn't necessarily means SD.

-TkdWarrior-

[ladyhawk]

OK, let me start off be saying that regardless of whether I agree or disagree I make every effort to respect other people's opinions. Anger is counter productive in the goal of learning. This is why I asked you to explain your statements further so I wouldn't mis-interpret them and could respond intelligently.

I agree in regards to conditioning. Male and females alike are conditioned from birth. Our upbringing, lifestyle, environment
and "culture" are key elements in creating our personal being.

Traditionally men were brought up to be aggresive protectors and the females to be passive and nurturing. The key elements that I mentioned above often change with time and it's a whole new ball game.

Of course there are some people with their heads in the sand that think nothing bad will ever happen to them but often
"Once biten, twice shy" and they learn to recondition.

Once the fear factor triggers the survival instinct followed by a heafty dose of adrenaline the results can be amazing.

I agree that males have the advantage of strength over females
but I disagree with your statement. "1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary"

Now, with that said, a female martial artist is "NOT" your average female.

I have sparred with many skilled male martial artists both in training and in competition. I have won some and have lost some.
I have also successfully defended myself in aggresive confrontations against a male.

So, I disagree with the statement "2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above"

My martial arts training includes self defense training and I believe that you can not train the average female in self defense the same as a martial artist trains.

[TkdWarrior]

<but I disagree with your statement. "1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary">

ok i said this in very much general terms but anyways i m talking about normal females(those who don't hav any training) even then i won't change my words i used extra ordinary just as an exceptional case...
while talking about adernaline dump/pump it works both ways so i don't talk about those cases

<I have sparred with many skilled male martial artists both in training and in competition. I have won some and have lost some.
I have also successfully defended myself in aggresive confrontations against a male.>
i m really happy if someone can use their training(regardless of their age/sex)

<So, I disagree with the statement "2. avg female(MA) vs avg male(MA) goes same as above">
well i should hav said that an avg trained female MAist
but i don't want to troll so i'll stick to my points...
well an average Female(MA) does MA for reasons
1. SD
2. stamina, fitness etc etc...
3. trophies, recognition etc.
most of times it's the later 2 which i hav seen n they r not up to that mark...
i know one girl(out of some 40-50 MAist girls) only here who seriously can kick some serious aS$
i used to train with her n frankly i luved training with her than any other so tuff guys in my class because she was small looking girl(about 40 something kgs) who was fighter from the core of heart, she was tuff fight...
and i hav seen average person not putting enuff with MA training so they ended up becoming half a$$ fighters, n i won't bet on them in SD situations

again i want to say that i m putting down female MAist but this is wat i hav seen n observed

<My martial arts training includes self defense training and I believe that you can not train the average female in self defense the same as a martial artist trains>
i believe half of it, because MA gives perception about fighting training n i believe that MA female will train MUCH better than average female BUT Self Defense is wat i don't talk it's all about figthing, it's about smartness, awareness, attitude n will n this goes for females n males both...
i'll tell u one story here happened in delhi ...there was a girl whose driver tried to rape her but she fooled her, first by kissing him back saiying that she luves him will marry him n then run away with money n jewellery etc etc in all this mean time she switched on the mobile n her dad n brother over heard all this n tracked him down n saved her. (it was in papers)

this incident narrates about Awareness/smartness Self Defense
there has been lots of situations like that...she never had any SD training... thats wat i call extra ordinary...
-TkdWarrior-

[ladyhawk]

OK, I respect your opinion but I still disagree about your generalization of women and the fact that you used the word "never" in regards to a female's skills and abilities in defending against a male.

Since you are using your personal experience with the women in
your country as evidence to back your statements I have no grounds for debate since I am not familiar with your lifestyle and culture.

I think we can agree to disagree.

[TkdWarrior]

<the fact that you used the word "never" in regards to a female's skills and abilities in defending against a male.>

i think the problems is the word "Never" is programmed in our heads in last 1000's of yrs of human evolution.

well it's true that i m using my country as my evidence but in other countries(from wat i hav heard, listened, watched) things r not MUCH differences... i'll say again(this time bit changed) for 1st point. i do think "Never" is not right word...
<females hav less % chance of winning than their male counterparts>
-TkdWarrior-

[ladyhawk]

I don't know if you teach but if you do I would suggest that you don't share that opinion with your female students.

[SpongeBob]

I have to disagree with your comments about women.

From what you are saying because a woman is smaller and weaker she will always loose. So the same thing goes for a smaller weaker man, taking on a bigger stronger male, he to will loose, always.

Therefore the whole concept of martial arts is flawed, that if your are not the biggest, you will always loose. So why bother training, because unless you are the biggest you will NEVER win.

This certianly isn't true.

Women should be treated no different to men. Women are also just as good at fighting men. Again comparing like for like. A 10 stone average women and a 10 stone average male, both with the same time of training/style will give each other a fair fight.

However women often take on bigger attackers, so they have to fight harder and smarter, just like a smaller male would.

Sex is not an issue and never should be.

Evolution has lead us to think of what people think should be, rather than thinking of the evolution into what could be.

If the women you know don't fight as hard and well as the men of equal standing, that's becuase they lead to believe they cannot, which is a shame.

[ROBERT]

Originally posted by SpongeBob
I have to disagree with your comments about women.

From what you are saying because a woman is smaller and weaker she will always loose. So the same thing goes for a smaller weaker man, taking on a bigger stronger male, he to will loose, always.

Therefore the whole concept of martial arts is flawed, that if your are not the biggest, you will always loose. So why bother training, because unless you are the biggest you will NEVER win.

This certianly isn't true.

Women should be treated no different to men. Women are also just as good at fighting men. Again comparing like for like. A 10 stone average women and a 10 stone average male, both with the same time of training/style will give each other a fair fight.

However women often take on bigger attackers, so they have to fight harder and smarter, just like a smaller male would.

Sex is not an issue and never should be.

Evolution has lead us to think of what people think should be, rather than thinking of the evolution into what could be.

If the women you know don't fight as hard and well as the men of equal standing, that's becuase they lead to believe they cannot, which is a shame.

He did admit that the word "never" was the wrong word.

I do not believe that sex is the determining factor in a fight. Although I beleive that sex is a factor. Because of our hormonal differences men ARE naturally stronger AND naturally more aggressive. This is do to the higher levels of testosterone in the human male. This difference does put women at a disadvantage(even if all other things are equall).

This of coarse does not mean that a woman could not possibly beat a man, but it would be foolish for a woman to NOT take these differences into consideration when training or if attacked.

I do believe that both sexes are equall. Although they are NOT identical.

Robert

[TkdWarrior]

LH->I don't know if you teach but if you do I would suggest that you don't share that opinion with your female students.

SB->If the women you know don't fight as hard and well as the men of equal standing, that's becuase they lead to believe they cannot, which is a shame.

well i actually don't teach officially as i m not qualified(not enuff belt credits) but i hav trained with couple of them... i use my results of survey/interviews to tell them how much they need to improve/work on their things. i know it's not the best way but this is the things which they may face, so i tends to find hard way out. n this always provoked them to do best dunno why?? may be girls r more competitive than guys, i seriously dont know...
so i like "put up the stats n prove them wrong"

SBob i agree with my stats Martial arts r useless(or somehow i proved)
according to police records(know some policemen) it's the smaller guy who cause more troubles why? because they know they r screwed if they don't give more than 100%. there is not any psychological advantage they hav.(mmm u said that already)
even MA stats tells u that BB got suckered up in streets
stats says a street fighter will easy kick a good MAist...
police records tells u that most fights go to ground.
that's because their reality doesn't go to street...n that happens in every second SD class
in one of women SD class they r teaching complicated judo throwing...guess how many girls/women will master those judo techniques to save themselves when judo BB hav problems putting them on??? if ur SD classes teaches the first way to wrestle then u r stepping up to loose first up(because wrestling/grappling techniques don't work unless u hav perfected/close_ to them till then u match it with ur strength)
SD as i said is more about WILL, ATTITUDE, etc etc...but NOT about technqiues...
thats why if u see my first post i hav talked about all these things
in my other post(which i got frm a female TKDist) talked about lot of these things.
if u want i'll explain every other point of mine, i hav no problems with explaining as i told u it's me writing not taken from somebody's work...i hate to say those things but i hav one sis n some freinds who i luv too much to care about...my sis can stand on her any bloody day... so some of my freinds...
anyways if FreeForm needs any advice then he should talk to Dr. Ruthless(ruthless.com??) i m no Expert but she is...

and thank u all for being patience with me...
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

Eh? Good points Tkd and Ladyhawk, nice discussion going on in here :D

Well, first of all, I can't say wether a MA female will beat a MA male, since I hv less experience of sparring with females, I had at first gone easy on them but got whacked up a few times in the face, not a pleaseant experience, lemme tell ya, MA females are definitely extraordinary :D

But I sure can say that an average female has a lesser chance on an average male

Now b'fore you get fumed, I would like to point out these -

I won't say that this average female is weaker than the average male

But rather that the average male is naturally more aggressive than the average female.......

I mean absolutely no disrespect to the fairer sex, I put the main text in bold to make sure you understand my points.

Just my 2 cents, please don't hurt me :)

|Cain|

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
But rather that the average male is naturally more aggressive than the average female.......

I mean absolutely no disrespect to the fairer sex, I put the main text in bold to make sure you understand my points.

Just my 2 cents, please don't hurt me :)

|Cain|

Well generally women are less agressive than men (a very good quality too) due to the competetive side of males. Females are much more agreeable.

But like I said if you take a man and a woman, of similar weight, size and training, they will give each other a fair fight.

Most of the women at a club are usually smaller, less physically fit or trained for less time. Or the instructor thinks it's only a women and teaches the men the good practical stuff or gives them more focus (not that I'm saying they would do that of course).

But if you put a bigger man against this women then she will struggle, just like her male counter part would of the same build, size and training.

I's not a question of sex or natural instincts, it's a question of physical dimensions and training. Is a 67 grandmaster, who's frail and weak with age still a good fighter and capable of looking after himself. Yes probably. Why because of his training. Yet a woman can't. Why? because we tell her she can't.

I've sparred with some very tough thai/kickboxing/grappling women before and they are very good fighters. Plus they often give away a few stone to me. Now if I were two stone lighter would I still have won? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Freeform]

Calm down everybody ;)

I'm sure this disscussion will be carried on in the future, probably in a thread by TKDwarrior ebtitled 'Why men are better than women' or Ladyhawks 'Why all men are inferior scum' :)

Only kidding please don't hurt me!

How do most of you broach the subject of rape attacks? Its quite a disturbing thing for most people to talk about, let alone allow somebody you barely know 'simulate' in a controlled environment.

I was recently showing some women some escapes from prone, where an attackers in a kneeling stradle and trying to strangle them. Without ever touching the subject I taught them some of the principles that could help if it was indeed a rape attempt, afterwards when I pointed this out they were stunned that they didn't think of it before.

Has anybody got any comments on this type of training, disguising the end point to make people more comfortable.

Colin

[Jim]

Rape defences and training... two words 'groundwork randori'. Ground fighting shows how 'panicy' a person gets when they're in a compromised position and being attacked. A real eye opener when you have a person defending for the first time.

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Freeform
I've assisted in running classes like these for years now, but I'm really interested in how others would structure their classes.

We all know that these things are really just confidence boosters and the only way to really protect yourself is to do regular training, but people will always ask for courses like these.

So I'm giving you 6 classes (one a week) 2 hrs long (about standard for these things), how would you structure them?
I've got my own thoughts that I'll share later (hell, I might even nick some of yours! ;) ).

Col

I have been asked this weekend by owner of the TKD school I attend (and teach cardio kickbox at) ... that he would like to offer some SD classes (time wise as you described)...and whether I would be interested in teaching also.
I've taken several SD workshops in the past focusing on many different aspects.
These are some suggestions I thought should be covered....(taking into consideration all the prior posts here also!)

AWARENESS and AVOIDANCE
Being aware of your surroundings and being "switched on" is the most important factor of your personal safety. Learn easy to understand techniques of awareness & avoidance.

BODY LANGUAGE
Looking at how people stand, use their hands, and even gestures, can tell you alot about a person's intentions. Recognise these signs so you can be one step ahead.

VOICE CONTROL
The power of the voice is widely overlooked when being taught self-defence. Yet this technique can have the same effect as striking someone.

FEAR
How not to misunderstand your fear and it's mental and physical characteristics. Learn how to utilise your fear and that adrenaline rush.

EFFECTIVE STRIKES
How to generate maximum power in your strikes to stop an attacker

GROUND DEFENSE
Simple but effective techniques to help you get back up when attacked and brought to the ground.

EVERYDAY ITEMS AS WEAPONS
By law we cannot carry items that are specifically designed to injure. However you can use everday items such as, magazines, hairbrushes, pens, credit cards etc. to help you protect yourself.

THE LAW & SELF DEFENCE
Advice on the law and some of it's implications when concerning self defence

KNIFE AWARENESS
Basic advice can prevent you from a serious injury or worse

What do you think?

Also when sitting in on a SD class given at our community center. I noticed that many of the women (50 or so in attendance) although very eager and willing to learn the defense techniques .... were physically "unfit", huffing and puffing within minutes!.
I am suggesting a good warm up and strength conditioning exercises also be done.

[TkdWarrior]

KC ur post did summed up everything
i liked about Voice control... tho i know one can make ppl freeze out by voice too... one can look intimidating but i m intrested in
knowing more about it... care to explain???

willing to learn the defense techniques .... were
physically "unfit", huffing and puffing within minutes!.
i believe if u r teaching SD then this should be the least of one's worries. most of times any situation where SD is needed can be dealt in matter of Seconds, so u don't need much stamina, but if u r going to wrestle them then hey u need to be wrestler...
KEEP THE BS OUT AND REALITY IN
-TkdWarrior-

[KickChick]

Thanks TKDWarrior....

What I mean't by "voice control" is basically to attract attention to your situation. Usually the attacker will say not to scream (which will inevitably ruin his plan of action) so you can yell "fire" and scream ... not for sole purpose of having someone come to your aid but to appeal to your attackers fear of being caught and to make him think that someone could in fact hear you!

I have found some of the tips on http://www.defendu.com quite helpful!

When I mentioned the physical condition of the participants... I just thought that being more physically fit will in fact play an important role in defending oneself. Maybe we will suggest taking cardio or endurance training on top of SD training. Running from a "situation" could possibly be one of your best options ... if you cannot out run your attacker then that is when you plan your SD..... and then of course you will need to run like hell after that!!

I start teaching in 3 weeks btw.... we will be offering 2 free introductory classes at first ....

[Freeform]

Quite a good range of stuff there Kickchick, how long/many are your classes going to be. I hope you don't fall down the path of many SD classes and teach a pile of 'techniques'. In my opinion these classes should be more about the awareness/mentality of SD. If you wanna learn how to do a wristlock properly, take up Aikido!

Col

[KickChick]

Like I said we are starting with the 2 classes first (1 hr. ea.) and of course we aren't going to focus on all that I mentioned, that will be subsequent classes .... depending on the response we get we will tailor a schedule.

"KISS" will be the rule!! Keep it simple right down to techniques.... focusing on the "ultimate concealed weapon"
:D

I have taken a few Aikido classes and can show some wristlocks but .... if you aren't used to doing those wristlocks, students will be in for alot of bruising!!

[TkdWarrior]

defendu ? i always says ppl to follow carl tesari's tapes...
What I mean't by "voice control" is basically to attract attention to your situation. Usually the attacker will say not to scream (which will inevitably ruin his plan of action) so you can yell "fire" and scream
yea it works that way too...
well i m much more on intimidating the attacker :D

-TkdWarrior-

[shotokanwarrior]

1. females will never beat a Male unless she's extra ordinary

I am definitely nothing extraordinary, and I have kicked the asses of male fighters before. What are you going to tell me? I didn't really do it, Ihad been brainwashed, had succumbed to some anomalous psychological process that makes me remember memories that aren't there???