Shuttle Columbia

[pgm316]

Coming soon after the lengthy discussions about the moon landing, what are people thoughts on the shuttle disaster?

Some people have said if we landed on the moon so long ago how come we’ve had a shuttle crash now, so long after and with a much less difficult mission.

However 2 shuttle disasters in 125 missions isn’t a bad safety record! So why do people talk like the shuttle missions are now doomed. Media hype?

A loss of life is always tragic, but it needs to be kept in perspective. The president of the USA rarely talks for the death of 7 people, especially when they knew the dangers they we’re putting themselves in. Could be cynical and say Bush is more concerned over the embarrassment it will cause to America……………

[johndoch]

Sorry but I couldnt care less.

America should be embarrased they're the worst polluters on the planet and also the worst in space. Maybe the shuttle hit some junk that was left in orbit from a previous mission.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by pgm316


So why do people talk like the shuttle missions are now doomed. Media hype?



Money, Money, Money. I'm afraid its all about the green. These re-usable shuttles cost an absolute fortune and the fuel bill 'aint exactely a walk in the park either!!

Money makes the moon go around.

Personally I'm all for the big lift into space idea. Going up?

[c_storm51]

I'm with tosh on this. Unfortunately it's the money that makes the decisions. The challenger disaster was a result of ignorance because NASA needed the media attention (not that they made it explode on purpose). Ultimately, when shuttles are re-used like they are, corners are cut and accidents will happen. Thing is, Space flight is extremely dangerous and as you say- the astronauts knew the risks - you are just strapping yourself to a rocket...! Tragic, but ultimately not a shock.

Shotgun on the lift....

[Tosh]

Originally posted by c_storm51


Shotgun on the lift....

LOL :D....... minigunner! ;)

[TkdWarrior]

hmmm....
damn those physicts :D
-TkdWarrior-

[c_storm51]

Originally posted by tosh_spice


LOL :D....... minigunner! ;)

;)

[wayofthedragon]

Originally posted by johndoch
Sorry but I couldnt care less.

America should be embarrased they're the worst polluters on the planet and also the worst in space. Maybe the shuttle hit some junk that was left in orbit from a previous mission.

Hey, I'm offended:mad:

no not really though:D

I think it was sad, but hey accidents happen. Thats about it from me.

[Andy Murray]

It's a tragic loss of life, though I see worse things on the Horizon .

I don't know what business we have going into space if we can't even decide which MA is best on Da street ;).

What happens when we're up against Martian Arts or Jupiterian Jiu Jitsu hmmmm?

[Greyghost]

never mind them what about getting a kicking in your saturns rings....and surely there are some MA from Uranus.......( not telling)..Pm to find out.!


seriously...condolences to the Bereaved.

seven more stars in the sky.

amen

[ogre237]

thing that gets me over this tragedy is that a couple of days before we had a train de-rail in Sydney and 8 people died but we have gotten alot more coverage on the shuttle.

I do have feel sorry for the families of the astronaughts but they knew the risks but how many of the people getting on their daily train had any idea that it might de-rail.

On a really weird side they are sending psycologist to the guys that bred the spiders that were on the shuttle?????

[morphus]

Martian Arts or Jupiterian Jiu Jitsu hmmmm?
Superb Andy - wish i'd thought of that!!:D

[Cain]

Warning - it's a rant

Well, thousands of people get killed in the wars, people making bullet holes in others, using nuclear weapons etc etc just for the sake of peices of land, that's no big deal to the government, but when a shuttle with 7 people on it crashes with an accident unlike the wars, suddenly everyone takes attention.

This sure is a whacky world :rolleyes:

|Cain|

[pgm316]

Originally posted by ogre237
thing that gets me over this tragedy is that a couple of days before we had a train de-rail in Sydney and 8 people died but we have gotten alot more coverage on the shuttle.


Thats what I was thinking. Plus the astronauts know the risks there getting into unlike the people travelling to there uneventful jobs. I think its more about the shuttle program being Americas biggest marketing tool which has now been tarnished, again. They’ll have to launch another manned shuttle very soon anyway!

I doubt Ju Jitsu will take off in space. Exactly how do you have groundfighting in zero gravity :D

What style of fighting would take of in ZGUFC??? ;)

[LilBunnyRabbit]

America should be embarrased they're the worst polluters on the planet and also the worst in space. Maybe the shuttle hit some junk that was left in orbit from a previous mission.

At least they go into space.


Thats what I was thinking. Plus the astronauts know the risks there getting into unlike the people travelling to there uneventful jobs. I think its more about the shuttle program being Americas biggest marketing tool which has now been tarnished, again. They’ll have to launch another manned shuttle very soon anyway!

I fail to see how its been tarnished, these people gave their lives for space, I can hardly see the program being shut down any time soon. In fact I hear that Bush has just increased their funding.


I doubt Ju Jitsu will take off in space. Exactly how do you have groundfighting in zero gravity

I forget which book it was which described zero-g martial art duelling, but a grappling art would have a huge advantage in space. The best would be a cross. You hold your opponent for purchase and pummel away. Someone trying purely striking would be interesting.

[johndoch]

Quote: ckd "At least they go into space."

Yeah good idea, lets spend billions going into space and just ignore those left on the planet who suffering from starvation, disease and war.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by ckdstudent


I fail to see how its been tarnished, these people gave their lives for space, I can hardly see the program being shut down any time soon. In fact I hear that Bush has just increased their funding.



:confused:

You did see the thing crash did you :confused:

I also fail to understand how you can see a £500 Million dollar mission fail, space shuttle destroyed and 7 people die, yet you fail to see how this may tarnish the image of the shuttle programme :confused:

I can hardly see the shuttle programme being closed down either. They still have a space station with people aboard. It is very risky, accidents must be expected. They have a good record or 2 shuttles lost in 125 missions. Yet the media still blows it all out of proportion.......

[waya]

Should this really be turning into a slander thread against another nation?

We had alot of coverage in the US on the train derailment in Sydney. CNN had it on for quite some time before the Columbia broke apart.

Police officers also know the risk of their job, as do Firefighters, Paramedics, Soldiers, etc... Does this mean that if they are killed or injured it should be ignored? Granted, the media blows up anything major, such as a shuttle falling apart, but that is their doing, not something that the government forced them to do for "marketing".

[c_storm51]

I was watching a very interesting program where a scientist stated that all of the serious scientists are against the manned missions because it's totally unnecessary. All the serious research they carry out can be done using computer simulations and unmanned vehicles. The manned missions are purely for the benefit of the public and to attract money to the program. All that said, I also saw an interview with one of the astronauts siblings - they were like "She would have died the happiest person", and I'm sure that goes for all of them. I only hope I die a happy man, also....

[pgm316]

But thats the point Waya, how often do you hear about fire fighters etc, they don't get coverage like astronauts……….

It is what the government is doing for marketing though.

I'm not having a rant at America by the way, just being a realist.

On the other hand it isn’t billions wasted. The money spent on missions doesn’t vanish after its been spent as certain comments make it sound. If you’ve done economics you’ll understand how money spent just circulates around the economy creating wealth. Something that doesn’t happen if you send money off to another poor country unfortunately (not in your own economy at least).

[johndoch]

Just a quick thought, What happens when fossil fuels run out??

[pgm316]

Nuclear or other manufactured fuels I'd imagine..........

[c_storm51]

Hopefully by the time that happens we'll have figured out a way to harness more natural sources better ie. Wind, Water, Sun etc etc....

[Tosh]

Well actually the grand plan is to be able to build the buggers in space in the first place. That's why therye sticking all the crap up there.

Resulting in a major reducing in costly atmosphere escapes!


Incidentely has anyone wondered when one of these hunks o crap are actually going to come down in a popular area???

[c_storm51]

I choose not to think about it too much....have you seen 'Space Cowboys'....?!?!

[Tosh]

;) Is that like "Builders from Hell"? ;)

[waya]

Originally posted by c_storm51
I was watching a very interesting program where a scientist stated that all of the serious scientists are against the manned missions because it's totally unnecessary. All the serious research they carry out can be done using computer simulations and unmanned vehicles. The manned missions are purely for the benefit of the public and to attract money to the program. All that said, I also saw an interview with one of the astronauts siblings - they were like "She would have died the happiest person", and I'm sure that goes for all of them. I only hope I die a happy man, also....


To quote one of the astronauts mothers "We are a nation of explorers...." No matter what ever happens, they won't stop manned missions. There are way too many people over here that have to do what hasn't been done. Imagine having told Kit Carson, or Bill Cody, etc that they couldn't explore the mountains because it was dangerous... some people just HAVE to do it.


Alot of people who have accidents whether on the job, or off, aren't covered like they should be. I have to admit though I'm not much on the side of the media. They blow things out of proportion alot and cause problems that shouldn't be caused because they think they need to be in the middle of everything. That's just me though.

Rob

[johndoch]

I wonder if the space program would get so much money if there was no military agenda? I dont think so.

[Cooler]

I have been reading this thread with interest and I find it sad that people use the deaths of seven people to discuss there personal politics.

Whether you agree with the space program or not makes no difference seven people died doing what they believe in and my heart goes out to all there families. Losing a loved one is never easy but to have it constantly discussed in the media must make it doubly hard.

No matter the circumstances of someone's death it should never be belittled they should be given the respect they deserve.

Cooler

[Dragon_Princess]

Originally posted by Cooler
I have been reading this thread with interest and I find it sad that people use the deaths of seven people to discuss there personal politics.

Whether you agree with the space program or not makes no difference seven people died doing what they believe in and my heart goes out to all there families. Losing a loved one is never easy but to have it constantly discussed in the media must make it doubly hard.

No matter the circumstances of someone's death it should never be belittled they should be given the respect they deserve.

Cooler

I totally agree with Cooler. I thought it was rather sad. Some of ya have no heart. Think of the families out there that have actually lost these people.

[wayofthedragon]

awwwww:love:

[wayofthedragon]

hmmm....I wonder whats really going on up there in space behind closed doors where we here on earth cant see. What do they really do when they go up there, and spend time in there space station.

Hmmmm....

could it be that they are working on some kind of secret.
hmmmm...we could never know

[Dragon_Princess]

Never say never. you can know. you can find out. just make up your mind and take a trip out to space....

I mean your mind is always in space anyway....:confused:<----i bet that's how ya feeling right now....<---:confused:<----

[wayofthedragon]

seriously though.....
think about it
the governments of the world could be hiding some kind of secret out there from the world. Could be something big. They could be meeting with Aliens there for goodness sakes:Alien:

[Dragon_Princess]

*nods head sadly*

[wayofthedragon]

any experts out there who may be able to shed some light into this mystery.

(dragon princess band from answering)

[Dragon_Princess]

hhmmmmmm....band or banned....be right back...

*runs to get dictionary*

*results on band and banned in a few*

[wayofthedragon]

uhg:confused:

[YODA]

Cooler said..... "No matter the circumstances of someone's death it should never be belittled they should be given the respect they deserve."

Bravo Cooler!

[pgm316]

Cooler said..... "No matter the circumstances of someone's death it should never be belittled they should be given the respect they deserve."

I agree. But, should they be hero worshipped as the media almost ignores other tragedies with equal loss of life........

I don’t think anybody on this site has belittled the deaths of the astronauts? Just cynical of the attention.

It has started some political debates, but isn’t that usually the case after something so tragic.

Maybe they we’re belittled by NASA when they made cut backs last year. One of the main NASA people warned this would eventually happen back in April 02 as a result of poor maintenance budgets, then he was released by NASA because they wanted a younger management team.

[simonlarcombe]

At the end of the day 99% of people do a completely meaningless job, I certainly do. As far as I'm concerned unless you are helping other people (on a personal level) or doing something for the preservation of our environment your work is meaningless.

Unfortunately, this is the way of the world... We must all work to live, it wouldn't be possible for us all to look after everyone and everything because we would all live in poverty and the world as we know it would come to a grinding halt!

The astronauts got a lot of attention because they have a very high profile job and they died in a very unusual way

This should not detract from their death; it is still a sad event for their family and friends.

If you think the attention received by these guys is uncalled for just cast your mind back a few years to what I can only describe as the mass hysteria caused by the death of one of our popular faces.

The media... (Can’t be bothered to say anymore about them!)

[c_storm51]

Originally posted by simonlarcombe
The astronauts got a lot of attention because they have a very high profile job and they died in a very unusual way

This should not detract from their death; it is still a sad event for their family and friends.

I agree. I don't think that anyone here is disrespecting the astronauts and their families. The loss of life can never be trivialised. I for one am sympathetic towards the families and friends involved and as I said earlier, the astronauts died doing what they enjoyed most, giving atleast some positive to the situation. I don't like to dwell on negatives. I think what the point of the discussion so far is whether these missions are necessary and whether the accident could have been prevented. In retrospect it is definitely something about being human (certainly some individuals) that drives them to explore - that's what makes us so 'successful'. Just a thought....

[Andy Murray]

If it is a topic worth discussing, could you guys maybe start a seperate thread unassociated with the deaths of these people?

[Cain]

Sorry Andy, but I just wanted to get this statement through :D

I don't think PGM is saying that their deaths should be ignored,
but of the thousands of other deaths which have been ignored

|Cain|

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
It's a tragic loss of life, though I see worse things on the Horizon .

I don't know what business we have going into space if we can't even decide which MA is best on Da street ;).

What happens when we're up against Martian Arts or Jupiterian Jiu Jitsu hmmmm?

You didn't seem so concerned then............

I’ve seen a few threads on this site that have discussed deaths quite flippantly, but the shuttle debate seem to be a sacred subject :confused:

Although, I do apologise to any people I’ve offended for creating this thread. :Angel:

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by pgm316


You didn't seem so concerned then............



Well that was my poor attempt at subtly diverting the thread with a little humour mate.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the thread turned into criticism of the money America spends on the space program amongst other things.

A couple of people got itchy about that.

You're right though, there was an extremely poor taste thread about Sep 11 when that happened.

I was suggesting (not insisting), and I still am, that you guys pick out the specific issues being discussed and continue on another thread. I was personally surprised at how many UK people were directly affected in some way by Sep 11. We might feel differently about it had there been a Scotsman an Englishman and an Irishman on board after all. I better leave it there, cos I feel another joke coming on. :D

[pgm316]

Fair comment :)

Your right though, we should probably leave the topic alone now. It soon went off track and opened a whole can off worms!

God bless America, God bless us all! ;)