Wu Shu ?

[ZillaBilla]

Well this may seem like an odd question, what is the deal with this Wu Shu thing, from my understanding it is a performance art that uses some Tai Chi forms (amongst others), though only externally, I assume. However I also believe that 'Wu Shu' translates as 'Martial Art', or so I hear. Can anyone point out the differences in the main principles of both disciplines, i.e. one is performance and external the other practical and internal, anyway that’s what I'm guessing. Can anyone verify this or discredit it ? And finally, if my previous assumption is correct; why would anyone chose the Wu Shu over a genuine IMA? Cheers...

ZB

[daftyman]

I think that wu shu can be split into two types. There is the martial side and the sport side. The martial side treats all the forms as martial arts and pays heed to all the relevant principles. The sport aspect is more akin to gymnastics, or a form of artisic expression.

One of the things about the internal martial arts is that they can make for an incredibly dull demonstration, but if you relax the guidelines set down by the past masters and allow for more artistic interpretation and larger movements, then you get a better visual spectical but not necessarily a better martial art.

Sport wu shu offers a platform for competition and many people crave that.

There is a story of Robert Smith (author of numerous fine books on the martial arts) going to a Tai chi competition and asking one of the judges, "How long have you been practicing tai chi?"
To which the reply was, "I don't do tai chi. I'm a judge."

This for me shows that form competition is less about principle and more about the external look of the thing.

This is not to say that someone who does sport wu shu can not be a good martial artist. If I said that they'd probably all come round to my place and beat me with sticks!

[xeviphract]

Wu shu is the national sport of China, it is also the main form of martial arts you will see in 'crossover' action movies such as The Matrix or any recent Jet Li flick, as wu shu is significantly more impressive on-screen than more practical styles.

Although wu shu has its place, many people feel it undermines the core of Chinese martial arts. Not only does it replace effective moves with fancy ones in its own routines, it has also been used by the Chinese government as a means to overwrite traditional kung fu styles. You'd be hard-pressed to find many old-school styles being taught on the mainland, as wu shu has taken over. Even Wu Dang and Shaolin now use wu shu tricks in place of the very styles they're famous for.

Apart from all that, wu shu looks pretty damn cool. That's reason enough for some people to take it up. Also, its physically demanding, so you're going to get fit and look good while you do it. You get to play with exotic weapons and perhaps even take part in demonstrations and competitions.

All this requires as much discipline and concentration as any other art, the only real difference at the end of the day is that you won't have learnt anything beyond how to move your body. Internals, combat? Basic to nothing. But if you coupled wu shu with another art, you certainly wouldn't suffer. Depends on what you want to get out of it.

The term itself does mean "martial art", (whereas "kung fu" equates with "skill achieved through hard work"), but when placed among the other styles, wu shu is very definitely a reference to this particular sport.

[Stone]

Sorry if I sound blunt or offensive, but I disagree with what xeviphract have stated.


Apart from all that, wu shu looks pretty damn cool. That's reason enough for some people to take it up. Also, its physically demanding, so you're going to get fit and look good while you do it. You get to play with exotic weapons and perhaps even take part in demonstrations and competitions.

All this requires as much discipline and concentration as any other art, the only real difference at the end of the day is that you won't have learnt anything beyond how to move your body. Internals, combat? Basic to nothing. But if you coupled wu shu with another art, you certainly wouldn't suffer. Depends on what you want to get out of it.


The reason that many people who studies wushu does understand anything about combat is because they practice wushu not for the purpose of combat.
Every form of wushu is combat based. However, each form can also be practiced for individually. Since many people do not practice wushu as a sport, therefore, its applications are not taught. But this does not mean that wushu is ineffective in combat.


Although wu shu has its place, many people feel it undermines the core of Chinese martial arts. Not only does it replace effective moves with fancy ones in its own routines, it has also been used by the Chinese government as a means to overwrite traditional kung fu styles. You'd be hard-pressed to find many old-school styles being taught on the mainland, as wu shu has taken over. Even Wu Dang and Shaolin now use wu shu tricks in place of the very styles they're famous for.


As you said in the post, wushu means martial arts, therefore, when you said schools like Wu Dang have replaced their own styles with wu shu. The styles that they teach are wu shu as well. Wu shu is a term for all chinese martial arts. Even Tai Chi and wing chun are forms of wu shu. It is a mistake to think that wushu are only the forms that you see in wu shu competitions.

This is just my perspectives on the term Wushu. I appologise (sorry if I spelled it wrong, I am not good at spelling :( )again if I have offended anyone.

[Matt_Bernius]

The reason that many people who studies wushu does understand anything about combat is because they practice wushu not for the purpose of combat.

Every form of wushu is combat based. However, each form can also be practiced for individually. Since many people do not practice wushu as a sport, therefore, its applications are not taught. But this does not mean that wushu is ineffective in combat.

As you said in the post, wushu means martial arts, therefore, when you said schools like Wu Dang have replaced their own styles with wu shu. The styles that they teach are wu shu as well. Wu shu is a term for all chinese martial arts. Even Tai Chi and wing chun are forms of wu shu. It is a mistake to think that wushu are only the forms that you see in wu shu competitions.Ok, we all need to acknowledge that Wu Shu can be used as a generic term for any Chinese Martial Art. The excepted term for what xeviphract is talking about is Contemporary Wu Shu (CWS). For the rest of this post I'll be dealing with CWS.

I disagree with your points on CWS. Their forms are not combat based. The forms that they were BASED on were combat forms. While some still suggest combat or feature reactions to an attack, it's not the same thing.

First of all there has been a specific effort to neuter out much of the traditional CMA power generation and combat theory from the CWS forms. Ideas like stance shifting for power have been replaced by an emphasis on rolling and jumping. In fact, a comon mark of CWS is a total separation in movement between the legs and arms. That is the exact opposite of the the harmonies that CMA are based on. All of that makes Wu Shu ineffective in combat.

Flat out, Wu Shu, outside of great physical conditioning, is completely impractical for combat. And that was the intention of the style. It's performce only. Further evidence of this is that San Shou rules and training in no way resemble Wu Shu. Why would there be a need for a contemporary Chinese Fighting system if Wu Shu covered those bases?

The problem is that many supposed sources of traditional Chinese Martial Arts are teaching CWS as a "traditional art" (see the Government Shaolin Temple as an example). So that's the exception that many of us CMA take with CWS.

- Matt

[cybermonk]

Wushu--NO!! :)

[Smee]

Best thing I was directed to about "Wushu" forms was that they tend to be cross or diagonal cross shaped in pattern so that different parts of the form were shown to the releveant judges at each corner of the mat.

If you look at some "wushu" competition forms you can see this clearly and it does very much reinforce the suggestion that performance is uppermost and martial ability is way down the list.

I find its a really useful tip when seeing someones forms for the first time. Clears the mind a bit......

Paul