Here's a new one!

[YODA]

Check this style out & let me know what you think.

I'm saying NOTHING! (Yet)

Stavit (http://www.stavit.co.uk/1112/index.html)

[pgm316]

Stavit - Derived from the drunken shout "Have it!!!!!" (shouted Peter Kay style)

Quote "In modern times my Uncle Eric, during the Second World War, fought hand-to-hand and beat Japanese opponents in Burma. He descends as I do from Danish Vikings who settled in this part of Yorkshire during the ninth century. His ability to fight came from fighting with his bare knuckles in real fight situations. "

Yoda, if you don't train in stavit, your just asking to be beaten up! :D

[gingerninja]

Wonderful where do I sign up!

p.s Do you get the lobotomy free or is it included in the membership fee?

the old B.S. meter goes schwing and then the needle falls off.

[DogTags]

HEY!!!! My momma does Stavit, and she'd kick all your ássés ;)

[pesilat]

Hmm ... looks like a lot of pretty standard chest-thumping hype. Doesn't really imply anything about the validity of the system. But their website doesn't intrigue me enough to check it out. If I happened to be near somplace teaching it, I would check it out ... but I wouldn't go out of my way to get there.


Mike

[Jay]

I think people teaching crap like that should be held accountable when one of their 'students' gets hurt on the street.

From looking at the site for a few minutes I spotted a few things :

The'Black belts' looked as if their fitness was terrible ... i.e Beer Bellies, etc. If the fight went beyond one of their 21st century defence techniques I think they would be too knackered to do much else.

Any of the blade attacks were so telegraphed that instead of trying to 'intercept' the attack the 'victim' would have easily had time to run away to the nearest Police station ! I think it was Geoff Thompson who said 'Show-ers don't stab and stabbers dont show'. Most people who get stabbed in the street don't see the blade coming !

The price of training was extortionate !

But the strangest thing I saw was .... they train in a Squash Court :)

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Jay
I think people teaching crap like that should be held accountable when one of their 'students' gets hurt on the street.

From looking at the site for a few minutes I spotted a few things :

The'Black belts' looked as if their fitness was terrible ... i.e Beer Bellies, etc. If the fight went beyond one of their 21st century defence techniques I think they would be too knackered to do much else.

LOL ... well, having recently trimmed my own gut down, I can attest that it is not necessarily an inhibitor to stamina. My cardio is certainly better now than it was when I was 50 pounds heavier. But my resting heart rate, even at 280 lbs., was 74 bpm. I was able to spar hard for 20 minutes and not flag. Now my resting heart rate is down to about 63 and I do even better. A gut isn't necessarily an indicator of a lack of fitness. But I would guess that I was the exception rather than the rule.

Any of the blade attacks were so telegraphed that instead of trying to 'intercept' the attack the 'victim' would have easily had time to run away to the nearest Police station ! I think it was Geoff Thompson who said 'Show-ers don't stab and stabbers dont show'. Most people who get stabbed in the street don't see the blade coming !

I cut them a little slack on the pictures though ... if you don't exaggerate things in the pictures (and on video), then it's very difficult to see what's going on.

You're absolutely right about not seeing the knife, though.

But (playing devil's advocate here), let's look at it this way. If you don't see (or sense) the attack coming then you'll be hard pressed to do anything about it except bleed. You've already screwed up by not being aware of your surroundings and people's body postures ... or the attacker was good at hiding them. However, you get lucky and his initial attack (aimed for your kidney) hits low and gets your belt. Now, suddenly, you know you're being attacked and, if you're on the ball, you realize there's a knife involved.

As I said, I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit. Chances are that you'll just get stuck in the kidney and, if you're lucky, the guy will be gone with your wallet before you see him ... and maybe you'll get medical attention soon enough to survive. If you're not lucky, the guy's follow up attack will kill you.

But !@#$ happens. Awareness training is the only hope to prevent the above from happening. If that fails and it happens, short of some extraordinary luck, you're screwed.

So ... you can't train for that any more than you can train to defend yourself against an unknown expert sniper.

Consequently, you train what you *can* train for. Which is that, for one reason or another, you've seen the blade and are in a position to deal with it.

The price of training was extortionate !

Well ... the low end (40) isn't too bad for a "day of training" (assuming that "a day" = 6 - 8 hours ... and assuming what they're teaching is really good). Over that, though ... you're right. It's kinda steep. I don't even pay those kinds of prices for a day of training with people like Dan Inosanto or Cacoy Canete. I *seriously* doubt that the Stavit guy is anywhere near their caliber.

But the strangest thing I saw was .... they train in a Squash Court :)

Hey ... I resemble that remark :) I've worked out in a raquetball court. Currently, I teach in my living room. You have to train/teach where you can find the space (though my living room doesn't really fill the bill ... it's all I've got for the time being).

Mike

[Jay]

Nice points Mike ... when commenting on the knife / machette attacks I was just concerned that if someone is being taught to expect a blade to be coming at them in a nice gentle arc that is easy to parry or block, then they are most probably going to bleed quite badly :( In all honesty now matter what training I have had, if someone pulls a blade and (a) He looks like he wants to use it, (b) He looks like he knows how to use it, and (c) there is the opportunity then I am getting out of there as quick as my gammy leg will carry me ! Or I am going to hand over the contents of my wallet - I can always cancel my credit cards ... aint no big deal.

One thing is for sure - I wouldn't be using any Stavit techniques !

Jay

PS : I was only joking about the Squash Court though :)

[YODA]

Originally posted by gingerninja
the old B.S. meter goes schwing and then the needle falls off.


LOL! My thoughts exactly!

As soon as I saw "It is not a fighting method and therefore does not rely on, or require strength, speed, agility, hard-to-learn skill or endurance! " my bullsh1t meter went WOO WOO WOO!!!!!

I suppose it may work - if the attacker has none of those attributes either :p :p :p :p

[Tintin]

Ahhh too much use of bold!

Hope you've read their guestbook, I don't think a Mr Andy Davis was too impressed.

I'm sure i've seen a couple of those guys somewhere, probably actors. I'm sure one of them was on "The Bill"

[ROBERT]

I have heard that the ufc won't allow stavit practitioners in their tournaments because no one else would have a chance.

I hope he comes out with a distance learning video program.


Robert

[pgm316]

Its too dangerous for UFC, they might as well commit suicide as enter that! :D

And whats wrong with having a big gut, Stavit does not rely on, or require strength, speed, agility, hard-to-learn skill or endurance!

The huge gut is mearly an energy well, step into there zone of terror and you'll soon find out! :p

[simonlarcombe]

I wonder if they've looked at the guestbook yet??

You guys are so mean! ;)

[pgm316]

Simon, I'm really serious. Its the style that has all the answers to winning fights easy! If you ever get all the money together that you need to start training in Stavit!!!! you might just find out :p

[simonlarcombe]

I can't wait! I'm gonna start saving today.

I'm particularly interested in learning the defence against the baseball bat. Stay within striking distance of the end of the bat, arms fully extended... No need to close the gap or to get close enough to counter... excellent, no wasted energy, love it! LOL

[Freeform]

I think I wet myself.

And whats wrong with training in a squash court (seriously)! ;)

Col

[zen_monkey]

Its not fat its padding

[pgm316]

"It is not a fighting method and therefore does not rely on, or require strength, speed, agility, hard-to-learn skill or endurance! "




So what is it and what does it rely on??????????

And what do they think will happen when you meet someone that has strength, speed, agility, skill and endurance. And last but not least learnt an actual fighting method! :D

[TkdWarrior]

<the old B.S. meter goes schwing and then the needle falls off. >

u mean Bathroom scale ?? man my freind must hav step on it ..
he weighs more than 120 kgs :D
-TkdWarrior-

[johndoch]

lol TKD

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by YODA


my bullsh1t meter went WOO WOO WOO!!!!!


WOO WOO WOO you must have the deluxe model BS meter:D

[pesilat]

Originally posted by gingerninja


WOO WOO WOO you must have the deluxe model BS meter:D

Funny, mine always goes, "Waauugaa, Waa ... cough, cough ... chortle" ;)

Mike

[Saz]

After looking at this your lucky your bullsh!t meters didn't just blow up altogether! This site made me laugh my ass off.

That guy on the main page with someone holding a gun to his head is the best bit. If he tried that in a real situation, he'd be shot dead in a second.

Are you sure this isn't a joke?

[The unwise one]

HAHAHAHAA ""where do ya find em Yoda"" hahahaha


Know what you mean about the ******** meter :D




Clare :Alien:

[grandmaster mat]

what a bunch of sh*t! hahahaha, ide like to c that in action on any of us lol

[Tosh]

Personally, I'm gutted

Please bring them to the cross training day Col..... I wanna see the Attack with Chainsaw Demonstration!!!

Please?

[Levo]

WTF?

That site is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

I wouldn't know where to begin in describing how ridiculous all that crap is!

Nathan

[simonlarcombe]

St Av'it!

:confused:

Av Tits

:confused:

Simple
Training
Adds
Value
In
Time

:confused:

Stupid
Tw*ts
Are
Very
Impetuous
Targets

:D That's the one...

(God I'm bored today!)

[Obi-Wan]

The most constructive piece of writing on the site, is the last 10 or so messages posted on the guestbook!

T'ah!! Well it gave me a little chuckle on this busy cold Thursday afternoon! :o

[The unwise one]

To think it actually appeals to some people hahaha " sad so very sad"


Clare

[Cain]

To me, it simply seems like a self defense class for dummies.......it's not an MA from the looks of it......but for someone who does not want to go through the martial training......but then of course it's not as effective as a real MA.....just my thoughts, please don't burn me :)

|Cain|

[Jay]

Yeah Charlie,
That's fine, but that's not what they are selling it as.

[Cain]

Well.......that's right but then if you were to advertise something, would you tell the complete truth about your product? ;)

I mean you could easily mention all the pros but would you mention any cons? ;)

But you sure have got a point.

God! I pity those poor people who sign in for them :) I mean it would be really easy to convince those poor sods about it :)

Cheers,

|Cain|

[The unwise one]

I recon for a laugh we should all go on the web site and leave an amazing view on it tell em how wonderful they are and what pure skill they have , then sign it (((NOT))):woo:


Clare:Alien:

[c_storm51]

Pure evil....! :Angel:

[dredleviathan]

This is what happens when you close carnivals.

Roll up, roll up. Come see see the freak show.

[The unwise one]

HAHAHAHAAHA !!!!! :Angel:

[darlph]

Personally I really liked the red shirts. I don't think I'd be calmly standing there with some one aiming a stick(?) at my throat.
Perhaps this style is for really "bulked" up people? Those whose movements are impaired.

[Scotty Dog]

ARRRGGGHHHHH

I don't believe it, they've taken down their guest book before I got a look, do you think someone tipped them off ????

[The unwise one]

HOW MEAN CAN THEY B ?????:cry:




hehehe Clare :Alien:

[Cain]

Hehe sorry, I did'nt look carefully at the techniques in their site, just was readin' the posts here, but it just caught my attention and my views -

IT'S PATHETIC!!!!! THE MOST HORRIBLE!!!!!!

How they can possibly move with straight arms!!!!
They look more like mechanical robots with no elbow or knee joints!!!!!

God! I really pity those who sign for it :)

I apologise, I should have seen it more carefully

|Cain|

[Cain]

Oh yeah! That's right, even I could'nt get to their guestbook, well that's good :D 'cause I was going to sign on it :yeleyes:

|Cain|

[YODA]

I signed it - it wasn't pretty.

I've spoken to a few people I know - they're getting a visit :woo: :woo: :woo:

[pgm316]

Where are they based?

Are some people going to take a look at there place? Or should I say squash court when they book it out for 20 min :p

[Cain]

Well, here's the reason they have given for their guestbook, lemme know what you think of it :D

Thank you to all who have used our Guest book - in view of the enormous response this service has had to be temporarily suspended.

:D

|Cain|

[Cain]

Also this :D

DISCLAIMER -_A recent entry, apparently by Dave, StavitMaster, was not genuine and should be ignored._ Stavit is a non-aggressive system focused solely on defense, not attack._ It is unusual, very effective in certain situations, North European in origin and can trace its roots back over a thousand years.

It has already been assessed by a number of well qualified people including one of the UK's leading CP and risk assessment_specialists. An interested unit from the Forces was tasked to work with us._ They really appreciated Stavit's capabilities and are looking to progress matters. Also a number of experienced martial artists both here and in Oz have recently had the opportunity to get hands on._ All who tried it were impressed and are looking forward to more training. Like all systems it has its strengths and weaknesses. It has a purpose and does some things extremely well. It's a question of taking what fits and keeping an open mind.

Once some reviews_from recognised authorities are made known we will look forward to arranging local opportunities to try Stavit yourselves.

On that note._ We are meeting with Dave Turton following_a recent phone conversation with him._ Thank you to Dave for his openness and offer to come over to see him._ We are also in London later this_ week for a demo with_ George Mackenzie. Others are arranged.

|Cain|

[Blue Dragon]

don't make me laugh

[pgm316]

A new Dragon on the site! :D

Go on, have a laugh, you know you want too, go on...........

[gingerninja]

You people should be ashamed of you're self picking on these idoit savant students, it's obviously a cleverly constructed satire of the instant blackbelt/create your own style phenomena.:D :D :D :D :D

You should applaud these brave people





p.s. Please remember I get hit in the head alot :D and so suffer typing blackouts that force my I.Q. below that of the average idiot savant stylist and renders my bs non-functional, so don't hold me responsable this message:D :D

[darlph]

Are there names for the specialists? I remember in school about advertising... you can't say a competitors name unless it's proven to be better, if no names are given, it's probably just hype. After looking at the site and the disclaimer.............wellllll.............I think I'll look elsewhere for a self defense class. (:)

[Cain]

A RANT!!!!

Guys, n Gals

Don't u think we mentioned Stavit a wee bit too much around the forums????? Take it a bit easy out there!!!!

We all know it's crap but why the heck to flood it all over the forums????

Just a bit irritated I guess.......

|Cain|

[pgm316]

What do you mean its crap!?

[Cain]

I mean it's crap :p

But I was serious b'fore PGM

|Cain|

[stump]

One of the Stavit people has been in touch with me thanks to an email I sent him on the same subject (the people who endorsed it). The people who endorse it are very hush hush people involved in the world of personal protection, bodyguarding and the military. Hence they can't give names out ("I could tell you...but I'd have to kill you stuff"). Hopefully someone who can be named will have a look at this stuff and give an appraisal of it as a method of self defence...because if you can't name your endorsers....they're sod all use!!!

[pesilat]

Originally posted by stump
One of the Stavit people has been in touch with me thanks to an email I sent him on the same subject (the people who endorsed it). The people who endorse it are very hush hush people involved in the world of personal protection, bodyguarding and the military. Hence they can't give names out ("I could tell you...but I'd have to kill you stuff"). Hopefully someone who can be named will have a look at this stuff and give an appraisal of it as a method of self defence...because if you can't name your endorsers....they're sod all use!!!

Yup. Exactly. That's one of the problems with "statistics" in general. Without knowing the source, it's impossible to know the accuracy or applicable use for statistics.

The people who endorse it may, in fact, be security professionals and such ... but they may be the very bottom of the barrel and have no idea about real world effectiveness. Or they may be administrators with no field experience. Or they may be a bunch of couch potatos who claim to be security professionals.

Without knowing the source, the info is basically useless.

Mike

[pgm316]

Originally posted by stump
The people who endorse it are very hush hush people involved in the world of personal protection, bodyguarding and the military. Hence they can't give names out ("I could tell you...but I'd have to kill you stuff").

Or maybe its for trading standards reasons they can't give names out :p

[goatnipples2002]

:woo:

A gut hurts your performance. For you idiots who disagree, the extra weight from your gut does stop you from moving as fast as you could. It gives me a bigger target. I know for a fact it has to hinder the flexibility of your torso which takes away from your techniques. If your cardio program is worth a **** then you wouldn't have that belly after about 3-6 months depending how big your belly is and how lazy you are.

[goatnipples2002]

look at the pictures that lady is all off balanced, her knees are locked out. must i go on.

[pgm316]

Nobody said a gut doesn't hurt your performance.......

Although there are a lot of decent big fat fighters around. Fat doesn't always mean not fit, it may mean unhealthy and thats another matter.

Here's Tank :D

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/pictures/tank.jpg

[Cain]

LOL pgm :D

I myself have seen ppl with a gut perform extremely well

But take this -

If that same person did'nt have a gut, then imagine how fit he would be

|Cain|

[pgm316]

The weight does change the way you fight, maybe thats why he's called Tank :D

If you seen his fights, he doesn't move around much, but smash straight into you. Its a lot of weight to deal with and not good I'd imagine to have on top of you!

So without it he may fight very different, maybe not as good!?......

[Cain]

Or maybe not as clumsily :D

well, dodge him a few times and he will probably be heaving for breath.......ok I know u will argue with it so let's take aother perspective -

rite now he seems to hv 1 option - smash
if he was more fit n gutless, then he would hv more of a variety in finishing his opponent :D

|Cain|

[pgm316]

I'm not going to argue :D

Maybe Tank is a bad example, he's not your average big bloke. He's a very powerfull fighter and thats what makes him good.

Or what I'm trying to say, its no good being fat if you don't have the muscle to move the bulk around.

[Cain]

I'm not going to argue :D

Me lucky :D

Or what I'm trying to say, its no good being fat if you don't have the muscle to move the bulk around.

Now that I would argue.........err..........agree with :D

No seriously you have got a point there :)

|Cain|

[Jazman]

"Thank you to all those genuine visitors to the site who kindly used our Guest Book facility as it was intended. However, an aggressive minority of 'knee-jerk specialists' decided to attack the site and Stavit without any understanding of Stavit and never having even seen or experienced Stavit. They used the Guest Book as a Forum/chat room for foul language, abuse, threats and challenges. For that reason we have had to 'temporarily' suspend this facility.


They are definitely not representative of the vast majority of people who embody the Martial Arts in their lives. But; they are a 'known' group.


All relevant entries have been submitted to the appropriate authorities, including the Police and our lawyers.


All negatives, however, have a positive. Unless it's a punch on the nose! They have done more on the Internet to raise awareness of Stavit worldwide than ever we could. For that - Thank you. "


Hmm... I don't think they like you guys, they'll have you all arrested know!!! or will the congradulate you for spreading the wonderful art of Stavit to the world?

[Andrew Green]

Any system that teaches the secret "Monkey Pulls finger" technique that has been handed down in secret through the "Takobelu-ryu" school of ninja's can't be all bad. :D

http://www.stavit.co.uk/mediac/400_0/media/q.~David~$26~Ron.JPG

[Cain]

Eh? what the hell for will they arrest us?

We are just exreessing our personal opinions of how crap it is!

What crime is that?

|Cain|

[Greyghost]

damn it...missed all the fun again,

i'm sure i saw Master Dave in "saturday Night Fever".......

"you can tell by the way i use my walk, i'm a stavit man, no time to talk.....
And you can punch and you can kick, but i'll beat you all with my hair flick"

nuff respect