Consequences of pot.

[Bon]

I'm just wondering if smoking pot has any consequences on a martial artist's training... I'm talking about the occasional cone, maybe once a month, not every week or anything.

[Tosh]

<putting on abestos suit>

Well if you believe the book, ingesting it killed Bruce Lee. :woo:

[pgm316]

Can you explain this Yoda :eek:

[YODA]

LOL!

Just chillin' man :D

[TkdWarrior]

YODA UnMasked
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

LOL! :D :D

|Cain|

[morphus]

Yoda - far out maaaannn......:cool:

[ROBERT]

Pot can alter you testosterone to estrogen ratio, making you less aggressive.

It also adversly affects your short term memory.

It can cause gyno(bitch tits).

On a positve note it dialates your blood vessels increasing the amount of nutrients getting to the different parts of your body.(not by much)

Overall it will NOT help your traning.

Robert

[simonlarcombe]

Once a month, your training wont be affected.

Daily = ...

Messy house
Getting up late
Eating far too much
Not doing any work
Not doing any training
Forgetfulness
Boredom and eventually...death :eek: :D LOL

[Tosh]

Originally posted by simonlarcombe
Once a month, your training wont be affected.

Daily = ...

Messy house
Getting up late
Eating far too much
Not doing any work
Not doing any training
Forgetfulness
Boredom and eventually...death :eek: :D LOL


To TinTin:

Insert to this list

Starting Aikido (ruddy hippies) :D

[darlph]

Robert, good points but I would like to ask, has it been treated with anything? Is it unadulterated? Personally, never did a thing for me, but my friends all still walked when I had a car. And you know supposedly, you can mentally become addicted to it. Personally, I have better things to do at the moment and I still need to pay for my new sai. But to each his own.

[Joe karate]

Never did it and don't want to. By the way have you ever heard that a joint has more "bad" stuff than ten cigarettes? I'm sure i heard it somewhere. Is it legal in any of your countries guys? Definitely not here in America.

[YODA]

When I was a lad etc etc....

On second thoughts I won't go there :D

[ROBERT]

Originally posted by darlph
Robert, good points but I would like to ask, has it been treated with anything? Is it unadulterated? Personally, never did a thing for me, but my friends all still walked when I had a car. And you know supposedly, you can mentally become addicted to it. Personally, I have better things to do at the moment and I still need to pay for my new sai. But to each his own.

I was referring to just plain pot. Yes despite what most pot smokers say you can become addicted to it.

I myself have no desire to do pot. I used to be with a girl that did it often. I did not like the smell.

I think that there are MUCH better things to do with your money, time, and body.

Unless you are prescribed it for medical reasons, there is NO good reason to do it.

Take the money that you would spend on pot and give it to someone in need. Trust me that will give you a MUCH better feeling than any drug can.

Robert

[YODA]

Take the money that you would spend on pot and give it to someone in need. Trust me that will give you a MUCH better feeling than any drug can.

I'll drink to that! :D

[Jim]

It would've been interesting to put a poll at the start of this thread (can it still be done?) with:

a. yes, smoke it regularly (weekly)
b. yes, smoke it occasionally
c. have smoked in the past
d. never smoked

Just for interest sake. I've never smoked (anything) and at one stage I was the only one of all my 'group' who wasn't.

[YODA]

c

[LilBunnyRabbit]

d

Just not interested in any chemical that my own body doesn't produce that alters my mindset. Its my mind, the bloody drugs and shrinks can leave it alone, mine I tell you.

Course, that's ignoring alcohol, that's different.

[YODA]

Course, that's ignoring alcohol, that's different.

Why is that different?

[TkdWarrior]

D). never smoked
i just don't like the idea of smoking/drinking/etc etc
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

same here D.

The smell is just pathetic, and I feel like blackening the eyes of the first person I see smoking in front of me, can u believe that guy has some guts to continue talking to me while blowin' smoke in my way :mad:

|Cain|

[pgm316]

C also, I think if pots the worst you've had your not doing too bad ;)

[simonlarcombe]

I love the distinction people make between alcohol, tobacco and cannabis.

Two of the most dangerous and antisocial drugs you can buy are also the most socially acceptable and they are legal!

It's all to do with history I'm afraid.

Why do you think there were so few arrests at the Brighton festival when 250,000 people turned up (instead of the expected 60,000)..? Do you think they were drunk?

Drugs are bad, that's pretty much all there is to it.

(This is neither a pro or anti drugs rant because I don't really care either way, I just find the distinction amusing).

[Freeform]

C, although I'm most definately a p!sshead at heart.

What I find really funny though is that when I'm working we're always throwing out people for smoking hash, and then once the doors are closed for the night, whats the first thing half the bar/door staff do......?

[Bon]

Well, I'm a D... Think I'll stay away from it, despite how tempting it is.

[stump]

c - haven't smoked it in about 5 years. I've no problem if people want to ingest mind altering chemicals, that's their business.

I too really enjoy the irony of the legality of alcohol and nicotine and the illegality of marijuana. Just legalise the damn thing for crying out loud and let people get on with their lives!!

Legal or no I'm still not going to smoke it...it holds no interest to me

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by stump
I too really enjoy the irony of the legality of alcohol and nicotine and the illegality of marijuana. Just legalise the damn thing for crying out loud and let people get on with their lives!!


I couldn't agree more. The law is a hypocritical ass in this regard. The social effects of cannabis are a lot better than those of alcohol. It does not encourage violence and dangerous driving in the way that alcohol does. And if people want to screw their bodies up through smoking it then they should have the right to. After all, its perfectly legal for them to screw their bodies with alcohol, tobacco, fatty food, too much food, too little exercise. Why should cannabis be any different? The sooner the sale of cannabis is taken away from the hands of people who also sell heroine, amphetamines etc the better.

For the record, I used to smoke but I lost interest years ago. Far too much interesting stuff to do and too little time to be sitting round listening to Pink Floyd all day. And its nice having lungs that function properly too.

Mike

[Freeform]

If they legalised it, how much tax do you think they'd put on it? There would also have to be a British Standard for it and a governing body.

Food for thought.

Col

[simonlarcombe]

What I can tell you is this.

In moderation both Canabis and Alcohol are reasonably safe for you and the people around you.

In excess canabis will make you very silly, followed by unconsious (could be quite confusing for people around you but not harmful). As for health implications I'm not sure and I suppose it depends how you take it.

In excess alocohol can have, what seem to be, good effects (externally/socially) but it can equally make you violent, unreasonable, stupid etc. Health wise it can be fatal.

Both are addictive (yes they are, both of them) but people who are addicted to canabis will give you little problem...people who are addicted to alchohol can affect other peoples lives in a big way...I've lived with an alcoholic before and it isn't nice!

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Freeform
If they legalised it, how much tax do you think they'd put on it? There would also have to be a British Standard for it and a governing body.

Food for thought.

Col

Granted, these would not necessarily be good things, but a price worth paying, I think, for the dissociation between cannabis and hard drugs.

Of course, I would think that. I don't smoke anymore.:)

Mike

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by simonlarcombe
Both are addictive (yes they are, both of them) but people who are addicted to canabis will give you little problem...people who are addicted to alchohol can affect other peoples lives in a big way...I've lived with an alcoholic before and it isn't nice!

Unless medical understanding of this changed in the last few years this is not quite correct.

It is possible to become physically addicted to alcohol. The addicts body processes alcohol in a different way, enabling them to become quite inebriated after only a small amount of alcohol. So there is a definite physiological difference between an alcohol addict and a non-addict.

Cannabis is not, to my knowledge, physically addictive. It can however create a powerful psychological dependence. But technically that's not an addiction.

Mike

[simonlarcombe]

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan


Cannabis is not, to my knowledge, physically addictive. It can however create a powerful psychological dependence. But technically that's not an addiction.

Mike

Agreed (technically) :)

[Sean O]

I'm a b (still a teen though). I've smoked pot, but never a cigarette. I can put up with pot smoke, but not tobacco smoke. Plus its much easier to get addicted to cigarettes.

You can't get physically addicted to pot, but if youre depressed or something its easy to need it just to enjoy life. Lucky for me, I'm not depressed at all, so I just smoke it like once every one/two weeks.

[Sean O]

Oh also it hasn't affected my grades at all. But I know kids who ARE dependant and it's messing them up. Thats why I'm just a b.

[YODA]

In my oh so humble opinion - if you consider yourself a martial artist & athlete - smoking ANYTHING is just plain stupid.

Do I need to say why?

[r4bid]

d:

I don't smoke or drink. Why do I need to put stuff in my body to make me feel good? Hell that stuff doesn't even make you feel good half the time. Alcohol makes you a silly possibly violent idiot, and pot makes you really hungry and disoriented.

I personally don't need chemicals to enjoy life!

Some people say that need that crap to relax. If I want to relax I go and beat the crap out of a punching bag, do a little qi gong or read a book. All very simple things everyone can do and they cost a hell of a lot less than pot does.

[Darzeka]

You don't actually get hungry. You are just far more aware of your senses and want to experience everything. So you think that chewing/eating something would be good - you are just wanting the stimulus.

It's the other way around with dependencies and addictions.

Your body will get dependent and your mind will be addicted.
Pot won't make the body dependent but you can be become addicted to anything - wanting to do something to the exclusion of everything else.

While the experience is fun and feels quite cool, the affects on the body - having no energy, sleeping like the dead(worse than i normally do), feeling like crap in the morning, being scattered all the time - just far outway the fun factor.

[grandmaster mat]

im a C, i have smoked it before just to try it out really and it turned out i was better off with out it!:D it affects your fitness and personnally i would rather be fit and healthy and live long instead of bein unfit and having bitch tits :)

[YODA]

I smoked (tobacco too on occasion LOL!) because I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. I used to go out clubbing & drink stupid amounts of alcohol on a regular basis too - I woke up one morning in hospital with plastics tubes sticking out of my mouth - not good.

[darlph]

I tried it many years ago, over 20. Didn't do much for me but make me want to sleep. I truly believe that it isn't good to impair your actions and judgement. What if you have to drive, your reactions are slowed? Do you really want to be the driver and hurt your friends? Do you really want to be in the car with someone driving that is impaired?
I am also a teetotaler. Very seldom do I drink alcohol. Maybe a sip of wine or a mixed drink once in a while now. I can't judge others only myself.
Even the food you eat can kill you. I am a food addict and I am trying to budget my food intake now. I am over weight and not happy about it. My legs hurt, back goes out, and I get high blood pressure headaches.
Yoda, you speak from experience. grandmaster mat you too. But remember, we have lived it, and seen it and regret it. When we were young we felt we were invincible and look at all the craziness we did. (We're paying for it now)
Darzeeka, you said it..Do you like feeling like crap in the morning? And you'll find your personally will change to the point
that your friends will change because you have changed your personality to crap.
I believe the concenses here is.......it's a dumb thing to do!

[Cain]

Forget smoking pot around, I don't even drink alcohol as a rule......frankly speaking I don't know why people do it even when they are aware of the consequences.

|Cain|

[Darzeka]

I am having much more fun trying to obtain acess to lower levels of conscious thought - the main reason I liked it in the first place - and besides I am able to process much more complex thoughts much more quickly and I enjoy the healthy feeling I have.

I can't say as that you need to drop it completely if you don't want to I just think you don't need it to get the good effects all the time.

I think its better than alcohol and that the governing bodies should legalise all forms of drug and let people decide for themselves - but then they wouldn't make as much money off it then would they?

[pgm316]

Life's more fun if you take illegal substances :D

What about the consequences of pies, kebabs and chips. Definitely worse than pot!

[Freeform]

I tried snorting a pie once, wasn't a pretty sight ;)

Col

[pgm316]

You need a quality Hollands Cheese pie, the meat & potato ones will give you a problem ;)

[johndoch]

I heard that the levels of preservatives in food is so high that human corpses now take much longer to rot in their graves.

That cant be healthy.

[JediMasterChris]

I snorted pepper when I was 12...that was really stupid.:Alien:

[Adam]

Once when everyone was very drunk we started snorting pulverized vitamin pills, it's hard to pulverize things properly when you can't see straight though, so I think I might still have some of the lumps stuck in my nose.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the effect long-term use pot has on male sexual life? It messes with bodily hormones in a way that makes the whole thing difficult or impossible (or so I've read.)

I'm D by the way, I know to many dopeheads to start using myself. It's an addiction I don't need.

[Jack]

I bought some spices into school for my food technology. I sniffed some tandoori masala, accidentally snorted some. My friend then snorted a line of curry powder in school. Idiot.

[grandmaster mat]

my brother has alot of problems with the amount of drink and drugs he takes so i tend to stear clear of both of them apart from a little drnk every now and then

[jonestown9]

One thing I've found interesting is that no ones mentioned pot as a pain killer! Several years ago I was prescribed codine after some surgery, and found that not only was I basically unable to function, but it didn't do much for the pain. Tried somking some weed, and while not exactly at my best, I was at least able to get around with out wanting to scream.

-jones

[JediMasterChris]

Yeah that is very true...And I don't neccesarily think it is wrong when you do it that way. Really if you are hurting yourself it is fine. But don't impair your judgement to where you endanger other people. It also is not nice to your innocent sperm.:woo:

[Fergie Boy]

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan


The sooner the sale of cannabis is taken away from the hands of people who also sell heroine, amphetamines etc the better.

Mike

What have you got agasinst amphetamines. They are probably the safest drug you can take.

I have tried to get into canabis a few of times but it does nothing for me, I didn't notice any effects. Cocaine I tried a couople of times is too expensive, too adictive and the effects just don't last long enough and too harmfull if taken in high quantities. Heroine I wouldn't go near for simmilar reasons only more so. That leaves me acid, speed and booze and I'm happy with that.

Some people believe that for a trully new thought or creativeness that chemical stimulation is needed.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

What have you got agasinst amphetamines. They are probably the safest drug you can take.

I think the problem here is the combination of the word drug, and safe.


I have tried to get into canabis a few of times but it does nothing for me, I didn't notice any effects. Cocaine I tried a couople of times is too expensive, too adictive and the effects just don't last long enough and too harmfull if taken in high quantities. Heroine I wouldn't go near for simmilar reasons only more so. That leaves me acid, speed and booze and I'm happy with that.

See, I just never tried to get into drugs, they just never appealed to me.


Some people believe that for a trully new thought or creativeness that chemical stimulation is needed.

Hey, if someone needs chemical stimulation to have a new thought or be creative, then that's their problem. My mind throws up enough original thoughts without chemical help.

[JediMasterChris]

"Hey, if someone needs chemical stimulation to have a new thought or be creative, then that's their problem. My mind throws up enough original thoughts without chemical help."



Good post.

[Fergie Boy]

Amphetamines have no physical addiction, they can mess up the liver and kidneys if taken in huge quantities (like alcohol), and the only deaths I have heard of due to the taking of amphetamines was due to anaphylactic shock (like somepeople have to peanuts).

And there is some medical evidence to back up the thought that the human brain can't create anything new after the age of about 25.

Just noticed we have been rather derogatory towards brave women Heroine's good heroin bad

[JediMasterChris]

Yeah there is no physical addiction but there is a psychological addiction...overall it is better just to stay away from it.

[Mo Lung]

Are you guys drawing a definition between speed and amphetamines? Because speed is about the most addictive drug out there.

[Fergie Boy]

Speed is just a different name for amphetamine sulphate, so no, and speed is not addictive.

[Freeform]

Well its not physically addictive, but we have to consider whats socially addictive as well, i.e you find yourself in a situation alot (clubbing) and you always take speed, more from habit thatn anything else. Then you want it whenever you go clubbing because otherwise it just doesn't feel as good a time.

Col

[Greyghost]

Marajuana is used on prescription by people suffering from Gluacoma (increased pressure behind the eyes)....since this is generally found in the older generation, perhaps this would explain why there driving is so crap!

[Freeform]

Hmm, I feel a randomised control test coming on.....

,,,, I volunteer! :D

[Fergie Boy]

So what do they put in the speed in australia if it is not just amphetamines?

[pgm316]

Kangaroos FB, really makes you bounce :D

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Fergie Boy
What have you got agasinst amphetamines. They are probably the safest drug you can take.


I'm at work, I haven't got time to find some medical literature on the addictive qualities of amphetamines. However, as far as I've been aware amphetamines have always been regarded in the medical community as physically addictive.

If (by some chance I'm completely wrong) they are not addictive then they are most certainly extremely psychologically addictive. I've seen more friends with psychological dependence on amphetamines than I can count.

Even in moderate use, speed encourages people to 'borrow' both energy and nutrients from their bodies without returning the surfeit at a later date. In this way, long-term use can lead to a barrage of serious health problems.

Now lets get on to the psychological effects. Whilst people are speeding there is a tendency for them to turn into arrogant, irritating w*nkers. They may think they are the life and soul of the party, others often disagree. How about a bit of paranoia, a common side-effect of speed usage, both during and in the longer-term. And then there's the comedown. Ever seen anyone depressed to the point of being suicidal during the comedown phase? I have, a few times. Ever known anyone to take heroin to make the speed comedown easier to deal with? Mmm, a very sensible strategy!

Now its fair to say that it doesn't necessarily have such a serious psychological effect on everyone who takes it. But a small amount has that effect on some people. And larger and more regular doses will have these effects on virtually everyone who takes it.

Try hanging around some older speed freaks to see what effects it has. Of course there are some people I knew in my youth that I can't hang around with, either because they're dead or suffering from serious mental illness - attributable in large part to years of serious drug misuse. Speed isn't the only factor in these cases, but its usually a big one.

Now don't think I'm a prude who knows nothing about this subject, or drug use in general. I still have friends who use drugs recreationally, they are not pariahs in my eyes.

But to quote Fat Freddy, for those old enough to remember him and his friends, "Peed Skills".

Mike

[Mo Lung]

Seems like someone deleted my post?!

But Speed and amphetamines are most definitely physically addictive. Do a web search and educate yourself.

[Andy Murray]

Nope, we had a technical glitch and lost 24 hours of posts Alan. Sorry mate!

[Mo Lung]

That's cool. I didn't think the post was particularly offensive so I wondered where it had gone! ;)

[Fergie Boy]

Amphetamines are most definately not physically addictive. You can build up a tolerance to them needing to take more to get the same effect. But you do not have withdrawal symptoms when you stop using them and your body doesn't crave for them like addictive drugs. Maybe you need the education Mo Lung.

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Fergie Boy
Amphetamines are most definately not physically addictive. You can build up a tolerance to them needing to take more to get the same effect. But you do not have withdrawal symptoms when you stop using them and your body doesn't crave for them like addictive drugs. Maybe you need the education Mo Lung.

And, no offence intended, maybe you need the education in terms of their psychological effects.

Mike

[YODA]

Originally posted by Fergie Boy
But you do not have withdrawal symptoms when you stop using them and your body doesn't crave for them like addictive drugs.

I know people that would definately disagree with that.

[BlackRaven]

Has anyone seen the Simpsons episode where Homer gets prescribed it. Verry funny. I like the part where Doctor Hibbert has finally persuaded Homer that it is legal to prescribe it, then asks him if he wants the skull or the wizard bong.

[Fergie Boy]

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan


Even in moderate use, speed encourages people to 'borrow' both energy and nutrients from their bodies without returning the surfeit at a later date. In this way, long-term use can lead to a barrage of serious health problems.

Mike

Long term and heavy use of any drugs will cause serious health problems, alcohol like amphetamines can cause serious liver damage, tobaco and cannibis are highly carenogenic, marijuana also affects memory detrimentaly.

Originally posted by Mike Flanagan


Now lets get on to the psychological effects. Whilst people are speeding there is a tendency for them to turn into arrogant, irritating w*nkers. They may think they are the life and soul of the party, others often disagree. How about a bit of paranoia, a common side-effect of speed usage, both during and in the longer-term. And then there's the comedown. Ever seen anyone depressed to the point of being suicidal during the comedown phase? I have, a few times. Ever known anyone to take heroin to make the speed comedown easier to deal with? Mmm, a very sensible strategy!

Now its fair to say that it doesn't necessarily have such a serious psychological effect on everyone who takes it. But a small amount has that effect on some people. And larger and more regular doses will have these effects on virtually everyone who takes it.




They haven't just become annoying, they have always been anoying, but they are more energetic about it (in my experience). Large amounts of amphetamine use can cause bouts of paranoia and people who already have a chamical inbalance will be affected to a greater degree and possibly permanently, This will happen with use of any substance that alters the chemical balance of the brain, like alcohol.

Amphetamines can also cause anaphylactic shock due to allergy but I beleive more people are allergic to peanuts than amphetamines.

I am not saying amphetamines are 100% safe and any drugs taken in large amounts will have serious adverse affects, just that I believe them to be the safest recreational drug.

Mike your post indicates you have known a lot of people who have used large amounts of amphetamines and I was wondering if you think they would be in better shape if they had been using as large amounts of other drugs.

[JessyBlue]

Hm, dosen ´t effect on my training.

[Cain]

You may not even be aware of it....I prefer to stay away from those kind of things, hell I even stay away from tea/cofee :D:p

|Cain|

[YODA]

Stay away from coffee?

No caffeine?

((((Shake))))

((((Quiver))))

((((Twitch))))

[Cain]

LOL! :D

Yep that's rite, never tasted it more than twice, prefer milk instead :D

|Cain|

[YODA]

I'd die without caffeine.

((((ack))))

[JediMasterChris]

Mike your post indicates you have known a lot of people who have used large amounts of amphetamines and I was wondering if you think they would be in better shape if they had been using as large amounts of other drugs.


I don't know much about that. But I bet the people who don't use any drugs at all are healthier. You are better off just to stay away from drugs. I can be what I define as a "good martial artist" without assistance of a drug going through my body. And I don't need to get high. I have before but I don't like the idea of slaving away to a silly substance. :woo:

[Mo Lung]

Wow, the ignorance on this topic!

OK, here we go, just for starters:

From here: (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/demand/druglegal/effects_chart.html)



Drug Type: Amphetamines

Short-Term Effects (Desired): euphoria, excitement, increased alertness, wakefulness

Short-Term Effects (Other): increased blood pressure, increased pulse rate, insomnia, loss of appetite

Duration of Acute Effects: 2 to 4 hours

DEA View on Risk of Dependence: physical - possible, psychological - high



From here: (http://www.fsus.fsu.edu/general/drugs/Effects_amphetamines.html)



NEGATIVE EFFECTS

irritability
anxiety
increased blood pressure
paranoia
depression
aggression
convulsions
dilated pupils and blurred vision
dizziness
sleeplessness
loss of appetite and malnutrition
increased body temperature
nerve cell damage
addiction


See also the last paragraph here. (http://www.drugs-info.co.uk/drugpages/amphetamines/amphetamines.htm)

And from here: (http://www.zoot2.com/justthefacts/drugs/amphetamines.asp)


Q: Are amphetamines addictive?

A: People who use amphetamines regularly find they need to take larger doses to get the same effects as they used to get from smaller doses. This is called tolerance and, once a tolerance is developed, doses get larger and users can develop a need for the drug. These cravings can be very strong, and users may go to great lengths to obtain more amphetamines.

If users stop suddenly, they can experience withdrawal caused by their body craving, but not getting, amphetamines. This withdrawal usually involves extreme tiredness, disturbed sleep, anxiety, hunger, depression, and suicidal thoughts.


You want more evidence, just have a look yourself.

Who needs educating?

[Fergie Boy]

Don't beleive everything you read on the web

[Cain]

man, thares'a a dozen of links on the web, want more proof then go to a doc and ask him, go to a library and take a book on drugs and read it, the truth is all around you, take a look

|Cain|

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by Fergie Boy

Long term and heavy use of any drugs will cause serious health problems, alcohol like amphetamines can cause serious liver damage, tobaco and cannibis are highly carenogenic, marijuana also affects memory detrimentaly.


I have not known marijuana to have as detrimental psychological and sociological effects as amphetamines do. One can always come up with examples of people who freak out when given one particular drug, but, across the board, amphetamines clearly have a more detrimental pyschological effect.

Plus, whatever the reality of physical addiction, they are a lot easier to become dependent on than, say, cannabis.


Large amounts of amphetamine use can cause bouts of paranoia and people who already have a chamical inbalance will be affected to a greater degree and possibly permanently, This will happen with use of any substance that alters the chemical balance of the brain, like alcohol.

I would have thought that paranoia is more usually a result of psychology than chemistry. Could you provide some references to medical literature to support your view?


Mike your post indicates you have known a lot of people who have used large amounts of amphetamines and I was wondering if you think they would be in better shape if they had been using as large amounts of other drugs.

Depends on the drug, of course. Personally, if I had to do any, I would prefer large amounts of cannabis, LSD, alcohol or possibly ecstacy. But drugs are rarely taken in isolation. Amphetamine use often encourages prodigous alcohol consumption. LSD or ecstacy usually preclude alcohol (at least in any significant quantity).

Also the concept of 'gateway' drugs should be mentioned. I used to dismiss this idea but I have now changed my mind. I have seen speed become a gateway drug for heroin in a number of cases. I have never seen such a link with cannabis or LSD.

For those people I know who have taken lots of speed, it is only one factor, although a very major one, that has resulted in their current lifestyle, psychological state or, indeed, early death. However, had they not gone down the road of serious speed use then it is doubtful that their lifestyles would have developed the way they did.

Mike

[pgm316]

HI Mike

You'd rather take LSD than speed!?

From what I know LSD has far worse physiological effects than speed!

Problem is we haven't mentioned anything about quantities taken and frequency of use. And without getting into the details it really is meaningless.

Its like saying drinking is bad whether I have an odd glass or red wine or a litre of cider every morning.

The body can cope with lots of things in small doses, better than it can cope with a lot of one thing, ie 30 pints of lager a week ;)

[Mike Flanagan]

I wasn't aware of any particularly detrimental effects of LSD. When it comes to quantities it is very rare to find an individual that feels compelled to take it very regularly. And you develop a tolerance to it very rapidly. The only ill effects I've ever seen in people taking LSD were entirely psychological in nature.

Of course, nowadays when buy LSD or ecstacy you don't really know what you're getting. From what I understand an awful lot of supposed 'ecstacy' does not contain any MDMA. I've not exactly got my finger on the pulse to be honest though.

Mike

[pgm316]

Sorry I think your right Mike, I've had a read of some articles and the effects of LSD are not as bad as I thought.

""The problems posed by LSD, for example, in some ways resemble those presented by scuba diving. Each is seen as a form of exploration that opens new vistas. Hence participants often find the activity enormously stimulating and inspiring. Each activity poses a small but significant risk of serious personal harm, these being death in one and aggravation of pre-existing states of mental instability for the other. Untrained, unsupervised use of unchecked substances or equipment are ill-advised in both cases." (Blum, 1990) "

"Some users of LSD experience what is clinically referred to as LSD psychosis, schizophrenic-like disorders that seem to be triggered by using the drug. However, in careful analysis of LSD psychosis patients, it appears that those who have strong family histories of major psychosis or psychopathology are more vulnerable than those who do not (Tsuang et al., 1982). Vardy et al. (1983) reported similar findings, as well as that LSD psychotics have significantly higher rates of parental alcoholism than control groups. In a survey of five-thousand individuals who had used LSD a total of twenty-five-thousand times, Cohen (1960) found 1.8 psychotic episodes per thousand ingestions, 1.2 attempted suicides, and 0.4 completed suicides -- figures consistent with the those of the general population. Regarding dangers of psychosis in therapeutic uses of LSD, Pahnke et al. (1970) notes: "

[Mo Lung]

Originally posted by Fergie Boy
Don't beleive everything you read on the web

While you're looking up more "reputable" sources take a few minutes to also look up the word DENIAL.

:rolleyes:

[JediMasterChris]

While you're looking up more "reputable" sources take a few minutes to also look up the word DENIAL.


Well Said...

[AllOutWar]

LSD..............HMMMM. WELL I haven't read much about it but have ate enough of it to tell you I never will AGAIN! We can argue for years pros and cons of LSD. But I will tell you what I have experienced and then let you make a choice. My story isn't told through a friend of a friend or something where the truth could be twisted. A good friend of mine from high school though he was a tiger for a while and had to stay in a mental hospital. Of course it was a large dose of LSD that did it, but just like anything in life you build a tolerance and then 2 or 3 hits just doesn't cut it. You heard about how much fun "john" had on 10 hits so you try it. Do you see where I'm going with this. BUT B4 ANYONE BITES MY HEAD OFF IN THE DEFENSE OF LSD that would be like saying don't drink cuz uncle ray died from drinkin .he drank a keg of vodka in 10 minutes! My point is it starts as expeirmenting..........What happens next is up to you.

[AllOutWar]

Actually it was 30 doses that did my friend in. That's alot of acid.
Plus a friend of mine who used to sell X and LSD, got spun out on LSD. I guess he pissed someone off cuz he got a liguid gram of LSD on his neck it was sooooo volatile that it penatrted his skin and made him a veggtable for weeks. He really had to be taken care of. He couldn't do anything for him self. A liquid gram is "bibles" of acid a "bible" is 100 hits.

On the level that you deal with LSD it may be through a friend but REMEBER that there is a darker side not as nice as the guy you get it from

[AllOutWar]

I heard somebody mention amphetamines, speed, do you mean METHamphetamines or just the stuff at the gas station the truckers use?

[Guitarboy1212]

Of what i've learned smoking anything is very bad for you. But compared to cigarettes i'd say cigerettes are worse. Pot has the same effects as alchohal. Other than that it's safe. The only reason it became illegal is because not that many people were doing it at the time so no one cared. But smoking anything is harmful. It can give you cancer and will make you exausted in MA. The smoke is what's bad for you, so don't be fooled by stuff like it has over 200 chemicals in it, because guess what, coffee has over 2000. But still don't do it.

[Mo Lung]

Originally posted by Guitarboy1212
Of what i've learned smoking anything is very bad for you. But compared to cigarettes i'd say cigerettes are worse. Pot has the same effects as alchohal. Other than that it's safe. The only reason it became illegal is because not that many people were doing it at the time so no one cared. But smoking anything is harmful. It can give you cancer and will make you exausted in MA. The smoke is what's bad for you, so don't be fooled by stuff like it has over 200 chemicals in it, because guess what, coffee has over 2000. But still don't do it.

Wow. So much nonsense and almost fact rolled in together!

OK, yes, smoking anything is bad for you, from a CV perspective and a carcinogenic perspective. There are no studies that conclusively prove that pot is better or worse in these areas than tobacco. However, when smoking a spliff people tend to draw deeper and hold it in longer, so it may have a greater negative effect. Plus, a spliff usually contains tobacco anyway. Only by comparing cigarettes to bongs or pipes could a good study be made and imagine smoking as much raw grass as you would find tobacco in a cigarette! ;)

Pot does not have the same effects as alcohol. It's physiological effects and it's psychological effects vary enormously. Way too much to go into detail here. There is some truth to the perspective that alcohol has a worse physiological effect, in fact, than pot if you ingest (tea, cakes. etc.) pot rather than smoking it.

I love this bit:


The only reason it became illegal is because not that many people were doing it at the time so no one cared.


LOL!

In fact, the reason it became illegal, at least in the US where it was quite prevalent at the time and from whence the prohibition spread, was because there was a new wonder fibre in place called nylon and it's main rival was cotton. Hemp (from one brand of which we get marijuana) is cheaper to produce and provides a far stronger material than either. However, the people that had their money in the other fibres pressurised the government into demonising hemp due to the "evil" influence of pot and had growing any kind of hemp made illegal. Even though the hemp that is good for pot is no good for fibres and vice versa.

You can find out a lot more about this at various hemp awareness sites that exist across the net. I'm posting from memory, so excuse me if I've mixed things up a little bit.

There's so much more to this discussion, but it's one of those things. You can easily educate yourself if you have a mind to.

:)

[Guitarboy1212]

Hey Fergie Boy,
are you really a Martial Artist, because i have never met a martial artist who is so obsessed with taking drugs as you. I mean when i read your posts i think of you as a shriveled up dude, with a throat hole to talk through. How could you be a martial artist and take so many drugs

[Jack]

I cut down on drugs drastically about 2 1/2 months ago, since then I've had a few tokes of cannabis and some drink, but in the last 3-4 weeks I've decided to completely quit to further my religious practice, except for one glass of wine I was talked into having last saturday. I must say I feel a lot better for it in general, more energy, more clarity of mind. Or that may just be all the zanzen I've been doing... :D

[ThaiMantis]

you could possibly look at it like a stretching exercise for your mind.. ?

what do we think? ...the power of visualisation and all that? :confused:

[BillyJohnston]

I'm just wondering if smoking pot has any consequences on a martial artist's training... I'm talking about the occasional cone, maybe once a month, not every week or anything.

Yes smoking Marijuana has side affects that concern martial artists. If you smoke Marijuana it will weaken your kidneys and poison your liver. Your liver must process all of the marijuana chemicals to rid your body of them. You need strong kidneys to be a strong martial artist. The Chinese say "The Kidneys are the King of the Back".

Having said that, Marijuana has legitimate use for a martial artist if they so choose. Many martial artist who train in a specific manner or train wrong become very tense and tight. This makes them unhealthy and usually aggressive. By smoking marijuana, the receive relief from the tension and tightness.

I am a musician. I like to play drums. African Djembe mostly. I had an instructor who was incredible. He was an original African from Africa and he was professionally trained by the people in his village and his country. It was a privilege to be his student.

One day we are hanging out and one of the guys breaks out a joint. I watch the thing go around and I almost fall to the floor as the instructor takes a hit. I was really disappointed. I didn't think he should do that. I was into the whole "drugs are bad for you" brainwashing at the time.

What I later found out was that drumming is just as strenous as martial arts. After his classes he would be tight as his drum was. In order to be able to relax, he needed to smoke the marijuana. He was not a bad man. He was a professional who I wish I was 10% like him. He smoked the marijuana because he decided that being relaxed was more important than the extra work he was making his liver do by processing the marijuana.

Marijuana also has psychoactive properties that can be of use to a martial artist. Only certain kinds of marijuana and only if you know what you are doing. Otherwise you will go psychotic and someone will have to talk you down. We better stop that subject right here.

[JKD_forever]

There are a lot of misinformed people on the subject of pot, unfortunately. Pot is not going to give you tits and turn you into a girl (even if you may want it so badly).
When it comes to consuming substances such as tobacco, weed, alcohol, it always comes down to the quantity and frequency of their use.
Generally speaking, 1 gram of weed has more tar and % of CO than gram of tobacco, believe it or not. Weed, on the other hand doesn’t contain nicotine. If you are to smoke one cigarette than that would be less harmful than to smoke a joint, mostly because getting some nicotine in your body is less harmful than getting extra tar in your lungs. On the other hand, smoking half a pack of ciggs a day is much more harmful than smoking pot occasionally, no matter what you may think about pot. Also, getting heavily wasted by booze each weekend is not less harmful than getting blazed each weekend. Interestingly enough, pot can be consumed in a way that can be nearly harmless for one's body - lungs. Pot brownies. Almost all of the problems associated with pot use are associated with the damage you make to your lungs. To this day there isn't any strong evidence that support the fact that cannabinoids may be especially harmful for human organism. Eating tobacco on the other hand will get you killed.
The reason i wrote all this is because i believe in science proofs and findings, not traditional "stories" you may hear on TV or from you mother which are almost always complete nonsense. (no disrespect intended)

However, that said, i do strongly believe that there just isn’t a place for pot or alcohol (or any other similar drug ) in any serious martial artist's or any athlete's menu for that matter.

[Ophqui]

Obviously as a general fitness principle dont smoke anything., but with regards to green in particular the physical effects arent as massive as people make out. theres a guy on my football team who used to smoke at least 3 times a day and his fitness is easily a match for mine (although im willing to bet he does more fitness work than me, the point remains valid).

On the mental side, It lowers ur aggression somehow, and can lead u to losing interest in sport (although personality has a bearing an that as well)
I used to do it a couple of times a week, but i found every other area of my life, including social was suffering because of it, even in thsoe small amounts, so i quit totally.

[Knight_Errant]

Die, ancient thread from a year ago about an illegal activity that caused controversy started by a banned member.