Facing weapons!!

[johndoch]

I was just thinkin about weapon defences. Has anyone here faced a weapon wielding nut job on the street and how did u get on?

I think training for weapon defences are important because it could happen anyone and the consequences are serious so anybody's advice on weapon training would be good.

[pgm316]

I can't say I've met many, just one in fact. Maybe I'm lucky because I've met enough unarmed and it is easy to pick something up.

I had some trouble against a guy with a bottle, it wasn't much of a wrestling contest in the end, no punches thrown. I did end up with a bust lip after being hit with said flying bottle after the calming down failed, grrrrhhh

[YODA]

Just the one - it was a knife - I'm still here - he has a very flat nose :D

[pgm316]

What did he do with the knife Yoda?
Glad to hear about his nose, obviously some aggressive negotiating went on :D

[johndoch]

I faced a guy that had a half a brick in his hand. I was 16 and this guy was in his mid 20's to make matters worse we were on a steep slope and he had the higher ground. I seen the brick and thought F*** it and lunged to hit him in the n*ts (any higher was useless due to the slope. Anyway it was a bad move and I got hit to the back of the head about 6 times before I was on the ground trying to cover up from quite a few hits/kicks to my face/body. He left me to go for my mate who at this time was fighting his mate. I came around quite quickly and got up to get this maniac of my mate. But he turned round and threw the brick at my head which I ducked from about 3-4 metres which was a mix of luck, instinct and adrenaline.

Made me think though. I took some heavy blows to my skull and got around 20 stitches for my troubles however I still got up pretty quickly too help a mate.

[johndoch]

I would hate to face a knife. Its just to dodgy!!

Hey Yoda
How did this *&^&$% get a flat nose "a headbutt??"

[pesilat]

I've faced a knife (talked him out of doing anything stupid). And I've had a few guns pointed in my direction ... fortunately, none of them ever got fired. 2 of the gunmen got some money and went on their merry ways (once was a mugging, once the place I was working got robbed). The 3rd gun, I outdrove him (we were on the interstate).

I'll leave them summed up like that because, looking at them, I realize they seem a lot more impressive without the details :)

One of the funniest weapon related things that's happened to me wasn't even a threat, per se.

To keep things simple, I'll name some names. My sister is Susan. Her sister-in-law is Marci. Marci's boyfriend at the time was ... umm ... can't remember his name (she's no longer with him) ... I'll call him John.

A friend (Dave) and I were helping my sister's in-laws move. John walked up behind Susan and, joking around, bumped the back of her knee so she lost her balance (she didn't fall or anything ... he was just fooling around). I was talking to Dave and didn't notice what John had done.

John tries it on me. I reflexively pivoted and moved into him ... which put him off balance and ripe for a sweep. Dave (who trains with me) laughed and told John, "Good luck getting him with that."

John: "Do you train in martial arts?"

Me: "Yeah."

John: "What kind?"

Me: "Kali and Silat."

John: "What are those? I've never heard of them."

Me: "Well ... Kali is weapon-based and, what you just felt, that was some Silat."

John: "Weapon based? What kind of weapons?"

Me: "We start with sticks, then move to knives and staves and such."

John was holding a box cutter in his hand (closed) and, at this point, he did something stupid. He said, "What would you do if I did this?" and he went to "cut" me (it was closed) with the box cutter.

I slapped his forerarm down and pinned it against his abdomen while I poked him in the cheek with the fingers of my other hand.

John: "Holy crap!"

Me: "Yeah ... and then it gets ugly."

John: "What do you mean?"

I brought his hand (the one still holding the box cutter) up into a wrist lock while applying a fair amount of pressure to the base of his thumb. At the apex of the wrist lock, I popped his hand and pushed against the side of the knife with my thumb. Meanwhile, my other hand drew my Spyderco from my waistband. As his box cutter skidded across the floor, I popped my Spyderco open and said, "Like I said ... then it gets ugly."

John (staring wide-eyed at my knife): "Crap!! Where'd that come from?"


Later, things got even more humorous. Dave and I went out into the driveway and started playing Espada y Daga (sword and dagger) with sticks and training knives.

John came out and watched for a little bit. When Dave and I paused, John said, "Man ... I've been training in TKD for a couple of years ... and I do pretty well at tournaments."

I said, "I bet you do."

John shook his head and said, "I don't think I could touch either of you."

I thought it was all pretty funny ... but maybe you had to be there :)

Mike

[YODA]

Originally posted by johndoch
I would hate to face a knife. Its just to dodgy!!

Hey Yoda
How did this *&^&$% get a flat nose "a headbutt??"

No - his face kinda hit the floor very hard. It was a leg sweep against the front of his knees - what Pesilat would know as a Basset Dalem.

[pesilat]

Originally posted by YODA


No - his face kinda hit the floor very hard. It was a leg sweep against the front of his knees - what Pesilat would know as a Basset Dalem.

Always a good option :) I'm guessing that you probably had his knife hand controlled in an armbar during the Biset Dalam?

Mike

[YODA]

Actually no - it was unattached. Something I would never have planned - it just "went off".

Worked a treat though :D

[johndoch]

Yoda the sweep sounds interesting could explain the mechanics a little

[pesilat]

Originally posted by YODA
Actually no - it was unattached. Something I would never have planned - it just "went off".

Worked a treat though :D

That's the best way ;)

An unattached biset dalam is rough ... good timing.

Mike

[Cain]

Ya a big group of ppl were ready to stone me to death, I ran like f*** n never saw them again, it's not funny though.....they were a bunch of activists, very common in India woth all thse riots, it was not a pleasent experience

|Cain|

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by johndoch
I was just thinkin about weapon defences. Has anyone here faced a weapon wielding nut job on the street and how did u get on?


I've faced sticks of various sizes several times, one with a couple of four inch nails in the end of it. Generally I reacted by blocking the stick (ideally softly and close to the weapon hand) taking control of it and either taking it off the miscreant or trapping it so he can't use it. The one with the nails in I handled differently as the aggressor was part of a large gang. I knew it was imperative to keep his colleagues calm so I concentrated on talking to them whilst simultaneously blocking his repeated swings with the stick. I think I was lucky not to get 'nailed'.

I'm glad I've never had to face a blade or a gun. And I'm not sure that any great insight can really be gained from what little experience I have of facing weapons, other than maybe 'its scary'.

Mike

[Freeform]

I've had a knife held to my throat from behind on three occassions. Squared off with a knife twice, one of those guys legged it when I did a Crocodile Dundee (I was just off the train from a camping trip), one lead pipe and most recently a bottle of Vodka.

Oh, and almost forgot that I got stabbed in the hand with a pencil once.

Colin

[johndoch]

Ahh, infamous and deadly lead poison attack. LOL.

[Freeform]

Still got a stupid blue/grey dot in my skin cause I never cleaned the wound properly, take note children!

Col

[c_storm51]

I suffer from the same 'grey dot' syndrome - got stabbed with a pencil when I was a kid....never cleaned it....

As for weapons defence, I totally agree that it is vital for street defence. It could happen to anyone at any time and these days it's becoming an increasing threat. Having said all that, I'm training in TKD and so far haven't been exposed to any weapons defence. It's definitely something that given the opportunity I will definitely do.

[iolair]

Originally posted by pesilat
Always a good option I'm guessing that you probably had his knife hand controlled in an armbar during the Biset Dalam?

MikeOriginally posted by YODA
Actually no - it was unattached. Something I would never have planned - it just "went off".
The knife HAND came UNATTACHED? WHAT THE HELL KIND OF TECHNIQUES DO YOU GUYS KNOW?

/iolair backs away nervously

[YODA]

LOL!

Nooooo........... I mean I wasn't grabbing him in any way. WE were not "attached" :D

[grandmaster mat]

i train in tkd and i have done some weapon defenses, they will be very usefull when the time comes

[r4bid]

Originally posted by iolair

The knife HAND came UNATTACHED? WHAT THE HELL KIND OF TECHNIQUES DO YOU GUYS KNOW?

/iolair backs away nervously


OMG lol!
Yoda with skill like that you should have to wear a bright orange warning sign...

[Freeform]

Hey, for the MAP calander we should get a photo of Yoda in a straightjacket and trolley Hannibal Lector stylee, with a sign

'Do not feed!' ;)

[Cain]

Do not feed!

LOL! But I would put it as -

Argue with your own risk :D

|Cain|

[johndoch]

Hey guys

Just what is biset dalam?

[TkdWarrior]

ok i don't hav a good story, it's much about fight for a life by one of my class mate...
well story starts with this guy who thinks he is a some sort of irressitibel(sp) hunk, n asked my freind who refused him but the thing he couldn't take it n start giving physical threat.
well she's hard NUT, she whooped him rite there in front of his freinds, the effect was such that he was out of scene for around 20 days, cool... pretty heroic?? yup for 5 feet girl who weighs around 45 kg or less against huge guy for about 5 feet 8 inch n weighing about 65 someting...
now as u might hav guess this guy is nut case so he came back again with a knife n started threatening her again, n told her that he hav knife with him n if she did any kungfu crap he'll stab her...
ok anyways she did n got stabbed three times in abdomen
one was millmeters close to heart, other was millimeters close to her appendicitis(sp) so she just almost escaped...
she went back to her house walking about 200 m distance n collapsed there, she survived n got back into training in just 1.5 -2 months(???) Man i told u she's a NUT CASE...

frankly if there was anyone else in her place, he/she couldnt make 200 m back to his/her house...n would hav died... but this girl is .... i just hav lots of respect for her n after that incident i've started to worship her for her courage :)

-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

I faced the most deadly of all attackers and survived!!!


A woman with a fruit bowl.

Ducked the bowl :) got caught by the plate as I stood up. :(


Lessons learned???

Never EVER, EVER say,

"It can't be that bad" to a woman with period pains"

Women can turn ANYTHING into a weapon of mass destruction

[pesilat]

Originally posted by johndoch
Hey guys

Just what is biset dalam?

It's a term used for a rear inside sweep in some systems of Silat. In principle, it's like an Uchi Mata in Judo ... http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/uchimata.htm

Though the entry in Silat is usually different from this animation and the flavor is very different ... it's the same basic principle.

Mike

[johndoch]

thanks Mike got a picture in my head now. just tryin to figure out how you would pull it off without the use of your hands. I guess timing and using your opponents momentum to roll him over your back would help.

Its not a technique I think u would plan for

[pesilat]

Originally posted by johndoch
thanks Mike got a picture in my head now. just tryin to figure out how you would pull it off without the use of your hands. I guess timing and using your opponents momentum to roll him over your back would help.

Its not a technique I think u would plan for

Yup. You got it right. Without the hands, it's all timing and the opponent's momentum.

Very tricky.

Mike

[johndoch]

or lucky LOL

[pesilat]

Originally posted by johndoch
or lucky LOL

LOL ... of course. Luck is always a good ally ... when you can afford the bribe ;)

Mike

[Trent Tiemeyer]

I had a knife pulled on me outside a club. Funny thing was, when I pulled my knife he wasn't so brave.