Hey everyone, Im a 2nd dan Black Belt in TKD

[Labatt]

Im down to 1 gup, I'll be 3rd dan soon.

Awesome site, been looking for a TKD forumn for so long!

I am a competetion sparrer. And have taken a break from the game.

I have always been good and successful, but I have not left this plateau to go to the next level.

I need some help:

#1 help, I need a TKD Sparring Specefic Pylometric routine/Weight lifting routine that will help me gain some weight and extreme, explosive, power in my kicks.


I hope to gain alot from this forumn. Thank you.

[Melanie]

Welcome to the forum Labatt :)

Please do tell us more about yourself and how about filling out your profile - :)

We have so many experienced people here and thankfully they are happy to pass on their experience and knowledge. Ask away and I look forward to hearing more from you :)

[Helm]

Sweet, i too am a 2nd dan WTF competition sparrer. I aint really seen much info on developing explosive power, so if you find anything mate, tell me/us about it here =)

[YODA]

Hi Labatt (Nice beer by the way)

I have no experience in TKD other than encounters with those that have - but I welcome you anyway :D

[Labatt]

Hello to all of you. (and yes, the beer is great ;)

Do any of you know, who on this forumn I can contact about this? Anyone with more experience than me? Dealing with what I stated above.

[Artikon]

I'm working on a plyo workout for myself and my kids that's TKD specific. Send me an Email Labatt (personally I don't like the beer though)
;)

[YODA]

Originally posted by Artikon
I'm working on a plyo workout for myself and my kids that's TKD specific. Send me an Email Labatt (personally I don't like the beer though)
;)


It is my belief, speaking as a qualified fitness instructor, that plyometrics are unsafe for kids. Way too much stress on young growing joints & connective tissue. In fact I wouldn't recommend a plyo program for anyone that has not yet reached or approached their potential using more conventional strength & power training methods.

[Artikon]

Ahh yes, good point Yoda, but I wasn't clear and I always make that mistake. I actually don't teach kids but an adult beginner class, and competition sparring. I call them kids as a joke because most are my seniors :D

[YODA]

LOL! Fair enough :D

[Artikon]

It's amazing what sort of fun you can have after a couple of pints
:D

[morphus]

WELCOME!!!:cool:

[HKD]

if Ur putting to much time on getting fast the rest of Ur game will go down. don't worry about it it will come in time just have to work through it. there's not trick or pill to make You fast...well now there is but i wouldn't trust it. work on yur technique, it doesn't matter how fast U are if U can't hit what Ur after.
HKD

[Artikon]

Good point HKD, timing I think is more important than speed and power. Although the other two aren't so bad either :D

[Labatt]

Guys, I know that. Iv'e been in TKD for 8 yrs. I just need a specefic routine.

[TkdWarrior]

welcome to the forums Labatt...
-TkdWarrior-

[HKD]

Originally posted by Labatt
Im down to 1 gup, I'll be 3rd dan soon.


how are you a 2nd dan black belt, but a 1st gup? a gup are ranks below black belt. you cant be a gup and a black belt.
HKD

[TkdWarrior]

??? well it's truth HKD ...gup/kup is wat we follows till black belt..
-TkdWarrior-

[HKD]

i know.
labatt said he is a 1 st gup and a 2nd dan black belt. if he's a 1st gup his next rank should be 1st DAN black. dan and gup/kup art totaly different. dan is all black belt ranks. gup/kup are all ranks below black. one can't be gup and a dan.

[Labatt]

I don't know about your school system.

We get our black belt, and we start going down from 10 gups.

we go down 2 every testing, when we get down to 2, we go down by 1's. When we hit 0, we advance to 3rd or 4th degree. And we start all over with another 10 gups.

[Artikon]

Do you pay for each of these 6 testings between dan ranks?

[HKD]

Originally posted by Labatt
I don't know about your school system.

We get our black belt, and we start going down from 10 gups.

we go down 2 every testing, when we get down to 2, we go down by 1's. When we hit 0, we advance to 3rd or 4th degree. And we start all over with another 10 gups.

i've trained taekwon do for nearly 20 years and i have never heard of this

[TkdWarrior]

well myself never heard about that too
typical belt system in ITF is this
10th gup(white)
9 - Yellow stripe
8 - yellow
7 - green stripe
6 - green
5 - blue stripe
4 - blue
3 - red stripe
2 - red
1 - black stripe
0 - 1st degree BB
2nd degree-
4th degree(asst Instructor)
6th degree(instructor)
8th degree(Master)
9th degree(GrandMaster)
we go down single belt everytime in grading so it makes at least 10 gradings before BB n if u fail then u'll hav to do more
-TkdWarrior-

[HKD]

yes tkdwarrior, this is how it is at a real martial arts school.

[Helm]

Um, i thought 1st-3rd dan was Chukinum or something....like an advanced student, anything above 4th dan is a Master, which basically means you can start your own school with minimal outside interfearance, and anything above 8th dan inclusive means your probably an old man =)

[HKD]

Originally posted by Helm
Um, i thought 1st-3rd dan was Chukinum or something....like an advanced student, anything above 4th dan is a Master, which basically means you can start your own school with minimal outside interfearance, and anything above 8th dan inclusive means your probably an old man =)

your right gup is a biginner level and black belt advanced student. 4th-6th is master, 7th dan is where your considered a grandmaster. 11th-25th is supreme chicken Munuget grandmaster

[Artikon]

True in the KKW/WTF, and some other organizations. TKDwarrior is in the ITF though and how I understand it it's set up a little bit different. I don't think there's any universal "ranking" system at black belt anyways to determine advanced student/master, etc . . .

[TkdWarrior]

well i guess ITF rankin is bit different
when u become 8th dan in ITF u r offically can be called "Master"
and "GrandMaster" when u r 9th dan
acc to ITF rules 3rd dan can teach n grade upto 1st dan
4th dan can teach n grade upto 3rd dan
6th dan can teach n grade upto 5th dan
it goes like this...
i remember below 3rd Dan u r not officially allowed to do gradings(u can help that's it)
-TkdWarrior-

[Labatt]

So you only have to test once to go from 2nd degree to 3rd degree???????????

How often to you get these testings????????????????????????

[TkdWarrior]

when teacher thinks that u r ready...if performed bad then ur belt could be held until next grading...
let me tell u rite now in my teachers current batch he hav 3 1st degree BB 2 of them r practicing TKD from 8-9 yrs n one of them is practicing TKD from 8 yrs + he hav spend time in shotakan for 6 yrs... even he did got BB in 8 yrs does that tell u anything about the way my teacher teaches? he does't let anyone grading if they r not good enuff,...if someone pisses him off he might give them forms n intentionally not giving them complete... this way a normal single belt(below dan's) take 1 yr to grade n more than 1yr for dan grades...
in last 15 yrs he hav around only 15-20 BB the best is 2nd dan now :)
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Hmmm TKDWarrior ??

Slightly different for us and I know i'm taking this straight from The Encylcopedia

1-3 Assistant INstructor, Boosaubum
4-6 International INstructor, Sabum
7-8 Master, Sayhun
9 Grandmaster, Sasung

4th Degree can grade up to Black belt, lower black belts are dependent on what Intructor qualification they have reached.

Myself C so I can grade white to green, thus I should wear a green stripe on my trouser legs when representing my school in teaching role. This is partially why international instructors wear the black stripe among many other reasons.

[HKD]

4th is when U become a master. 8th U become a grand master. as a black belt U can grade someone ou to one rank below U dan rank ie a 2nd dan can promote someone to to 1st dan in most org. this is a little different from place to place but that is how it is in most places

[johndoch]

so whats the difference between a fourth and fifth dan??? I think its madness. Does it mean the 4th is not as wise as the 5th or the 5th just been there longer than the 4th.

What do you guys think?

[Tosh]

Sorry I should have mentioned that this is how it is done in the ITF

Please see

http://www.itf-information.com/sub01g04.htm

For further explanation.

In ITF 4th Degree is considered an "Expert" not a master. This is harking back to the "time-serverd" basis. With minimum training time you could concievably achieve 4th degree in ITF in about (based on a student training intensively) 9 years. Not long enough to be called master IMHO.

1.5 year BB, 1Year 2nd dan, 1.5,3rd,2 4th

[johndoch]

hmmm, I dunno about what you are saying tosh.

What about those with natural ability and wisdom who are only half way through the belts compared to a BB who seems to have the belt because he turns up and pays the money. Is the BB any better than the guy at yellow (or whatever)?.

Sometimes I think belts gradings are elitist dont get me wrong I do my gradings too but in our club we dont wear belts as its up to our instructor to gauge whos at what ability.

if belts are a measure of your ability I also think that if you dont train enough you should be brought down a belt. does this ever happen.

[Tosh]

Sorry Johndoc I was replying to HKD yuo kinda pipped me at the post that's what it probably made no sense to you.

In the UKTA, (and most ITF clubs I have been to) if a student is at the required level then their instructor can push them to grade. The time-served side of things is when YOU can apply to grade. Your instructor may ask you if you want to grade early if he thinks you are ready. They are used as a guide and are in place to avoid students grding every week until they pass. Sort of like a "cooling off period" between grades where you get a chance to improve.

At the end of the day its up to the instructor to push his/her students to thier maximum potential. If my students are ready before time-served but have trained hard I put them forward, I see no problem with this. These time-server things are guidlines not rules. I don't see in black and white ( ho ho little TKD in-joke there somwhere : ) )

Incidentely if a student has been away from class more than 6 months they are required to perform a partial garding or gradings until they are back up to scratch in the eyes of the instructor.

I'm sure other people do it differently this is the way I do it.

[johndoch]

Quote: Tosh

" Incidentely if a student has been away from class more than 6 months they are required to perform a partial garding or gradings until they are back up to scratch in the eyes of the instructor. "

That sounds fair although I hope the instuctors have the strength to say "nope not good enough you've failed."

I think to many instructors pass people on the basis that they have paid for their grading.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by johndoch
Quote: Tosh

That sounds fair although I hope the instuctors have the strength to say "nope not good enough you've failed."

I think to many instructors pass people on the basis that they have paid for their grading.

First point:
Well me personally I wouldn't say that but would make a note of it and ensure they received the instruction they needed in the appropraite areas to bring them back. Also postponing any grading ambitions they might have is enough to make most students work. I've seen many students sporadically attend classes and watch other students leap frog them... it's usually a great incentive when juniors overtake them in class.

Second Point:
To avoid this fear in the in the event of any grading failure their next grading is automatically paid for. Therefore, instructors can sleep easy in failing students that are not ready ans students are encouraged to try again.

No refunds for BBelts though. : )

[TkdWarrior]

hey tosh u got it exact my figures on Dan grades were not rie :)
thnx for correction ...
-TkdWarrior-

[johndoch]

can't argue with that tosh :D

[HKD]

yes tosh U must B right Ur a 1st dan im only a 3rd in tkd and hkd so what so what would i know. this started out with a guy saing he is a 10 gup 1st dan black belt which is the most stupid thing i have ever heard. and now a 1st dan is me what rank really is. i know a few grand masters that would laugh at U and tell U like I am, that Ur to smart for Ur own good.

[Tosh]

I'm just commenting this is the way the ITF does things. In no way am I saying this is the right way it is simply one solution to one of the many problems.

P.s. I know a few people who would laugh at that fact someone called me smart ;).

[HKD]

well i never said U were smart. HA, HA, HA :O)

[Tosh]

I never said you were dumb HA HA <smirk> :D

[Tintin]

Pulling rank? Tsk tsk.:rolleyes:

[Melanie]

Originally posted by Tintin
Pulling rank? Tsk tsk.:rolleyes:

If he isn't...I am :D

Lets continue the conflab shall we :)

[Labatt]

Don't start the rank thing. I give the students I teach pushups when ever I want to LOL

ITF? What about WTF?

[Labatt]

World Tae Kwon Do Federation..........

[Helm]

Jap Labatt....
Theres hardly any talk on WTF TKD which is vastly more practised throughout the world, weird nón?

[Labatt]

I know, I was like "What about WTF?" lol, that's where the majority is.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Labatt
I know, I was like "What about WTF?" lol, that's where the majority is.


Hmmm IMO it's because the majority on this Weboard are mainly ITF.

[Helm]

I know....but you think majority would be apparent even here....as WTF vastly outnumbers ITF....

Perhaps WTF members take a promise of not ever using the internet that i missed? =p

[waya]

WTF that I have experienced is very closed minded. The school I was training at strictly forbids crosstraining of any type, and doesn't condone reading anything like Blackbelt mag, etc.

Rob

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Helm
I know....but you think majority would be apparent even here....as WTF vastly outnumbers ITF....


Hmmmm, vastely?

IMO Europe is a ITF stronghold with only America as it's main rival in members. Certainly ITF clubs association and independents outnumber WTF 5 to 1 in Britain.

[TkdWarrior]

WTF that I have experienced is very closed minded.
lol Waya, in another forum i heard other TKDists n Martial artists calling ITF TKD a Cult :confused:
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

Originally posted by waya
WTF that I have experienced is very closed minded. The school I was training at strictly forbids crosstraining of any type, and doesn't condone reading anything like Blackbelt mag, etc.

Rob

WOW!!!! :eek: That's big news to me :eek:

|Cain|

[Tosh]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior

lol Waya, in another forum i heard other TKDists n Martial artists calling ITF TKD a Cult :confused:
-TkdWarrior-

Sheesh why can't we all just get along :)?????

[TkdWarrior]

Sheesh why can't we all just get along :)???
if we all get along then the world become boring ;) :D
-TkdWarrior-

[Helm]

Well it does seem like theres lots of tea drinking brits here =)

ITF outnumbers WTF 5 to 1 in the UK? Bugger me
(not litterally).

Where did u get this statistic from? Would be handy, im doing an A level project to make a business plan, and i cant really find any figures on martial arts, i.e. how many players there are in the UK etc....

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Helm
Well it does seem like theres lots of tea drinking brits here =)

ITF outnumbers WTF 5 to 1 in the UK? Bugger me
(not litterally).

Where did u get this statistic from? Would be handy, im doing an A level project to make a business plan, and i cant really find any figures on martial arts, i.e. how many players there are in the UK etc....

I used my RAH guide (ie, Rough As Hell). It was based on looking through old copies of MA Monthly TKD Monthly and TKD times. I would even hazrd a guess that independents outnumber WTF clubs.

In Scotland the ITF style is really popular.

[waya]

In the US, WTF outnumbers everyone lol. I am not real actively studying TKD anymore due to just those experiences in the schools here.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by waya
I am not real actively studying TKD anymore due to just those experiences in the schools here.

That's a pity politics or syllabus??

IMHO opinion with a lot of the, excuse my paraphrasing, "old wood" being expunged from all associations I think the future is bright for TKD.

There seems to be an abundance of instructors, certainly in the UK, that want to keep the old traditions alive as well as advancing the art. More locking work has become more apparant at the seminars I've attended with Grandmaster Rhee recently and certainly his focus is on self defence & power.


Can I ask about your bad experiences waya if it's not to o much bother.

[waya]

Mostly the politics here... Seeing 15 yr old 4th Dans that have been training for 5 or 6 years, belts being sold... Other systems being insulted and called inferior just because if a student went there they'd see what they were missing in being sold their belt.... I don't know that ITF has all the same issues, and I'm sure not all WTF schools are like that, but the ones I have been too are, and the big Orgs don't say or do anything about it.

[HKD]

you tell'em waya.

[Artikon]

I'm sure not all WTF schools are like that, but the ones I have been too are, and the big Orgs don't say or do anything about it

The problem is how can you police an org. that's so large. People in Kukkiwon have a hard enough time getting all the administration done without going around and shutting down the schools that do all the bad stuff . . . which is . . . well bad.

I agree that it is a definate black spot when we see people who have bought there belts, or even incompetant children sporting hi ranking dan certificates (although there are exceptions to that)

I think firstly it is up to the master of the school owner to make sure the ship is being run tight. But this in itself becomes a problem once a student reaches 4th dan too. A money grubbing student can break off at that point and start ripping people off. :(

After that I guess it's just up to the general MA public to show good quality instruction/competency/buisness ethics, and hopefully these people will go away.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by waya
Mostly the politics here... Seeing 15 yr old 4th Dans that have been training for 5 or 6 years,

I've notcied a lot of these type of comments around the forum at cetain points.

For our part in the UK, the UKTA (well Grandmaster Rhee) does not grade anybody under 16 to black belt and as far as I understand it he would prefer it to be 18.

IMO there is a certainly level of maturity to be gained and understanding. Theres a lot of difference between understanding techinque and being able to copy and peform.

We also try to ensure proper grading procedure. Instructor have to be qaultified in certain grades in order to hold gradings at particular levels. Also students "have" to attend set numbers of "technical" seminars before they are eligible to grade.

Quality is important.

Uncovering fruads is difficult though!

[Labatt]

WTF is more common in North America. That's all I know.

[HKD]

are U talking about Jhoon rhee?

[TkdWarrior]

no Gm Rhee Ki Ha i guess..
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Originally posted by HKD
are U talking about Jhoon rhee?

Nope, TKDWarrior is correct Grandmaster Rhee Ki Ha. Who I'll hopefuly taking me second degree with in two months.

Fingers crossed. :D

[TkdWarrior]

hmmm cool dude...
my teacher hav learnt TKD from Him for about a year i guess...
n i know wat my teacher is :D
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

GMR stil impresses me every time I see him.

The last black belt seminar I went to he was doing full extension pressups as a demonstration. That's with a metal plate and high blood pressure.

...and the most important thing is he loves TKD! :)

[HKD]

cool! good luck tosh
HKD

[Tosh]

Originally posted by HKD
cool! good luck tosh
HKD

He he well it has been 3 years since I took me BBelt and I'm just starting to get happy with me techinque :D

[TkdWarrior]

last time he was here he did knuckle punch ups(where he was punching n doing push ups) when he hit first punch there was stun silence in the Stadium, n they were even silent after he done 300 of them :) the only noice was "BAM, BAM" of his punches
-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

hey wat's with metal plate?i think i miss something here
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
last time he was here he did knuckle punch ups(where he was punching n doing push ups) when he hit first punch there was stun silence in the Stadium, n they were even silent after he done 300 of them :) the only noice was "BAM, BAM" of his punches
-TkdWarrior-

He he me and a couple of the other BB's do them. Can never get the height of his flying ones though. :mad:

The metal plate was an old nagigng back injury. Restricts movement but not his spirit. Still actively participating in all seminars and gradings if possible.

[stevetkd]

Just a quick tip on how to get a bit more power in your kicks. Have you tried training with "heavy ankles" ? these are small weights that you attach to your ankles whilst training, they really develop strength in the legs and when you take them off your kicks will be lightening fast. Watch your accuracy though because when you first start training with them and remove them your kicks will be wild as your legs will feel very light. Also remember the majority of kicking power does not come from the legs but from the stomach, so get doing those crunches.

[MarioBro]

Well, back to the interesting stuff...

Labbat, do you have to pay for each of these unusual 'gup' tests between Dans?

The whole idea of having 'gups' given between Dan test is not normal in anything I have ever seen, particularily in the WTF. If you are paying for each test, you may be getting ripped of IMHO. If you are not paying, then I am still at a loss as far as this system goes.

Once reaching first Dan, the tests should be occuring at least 1 year, then 2 after that, then 3 after that, etc. Is anyone else totally baffled by this?

[Artikon]

Just a quick tip on how to get a bit more power in your kicks. Have you tried training with "heavy ankles" ? these are small weights that you attach to your ankles whilst training, they really develop strength in the legs and when you take them off your kicks will be lightening fast

They will also destroy your knees. Bad idea in my opinion. Long term damage isn't worth trying this as there are other ways to develop power and speed in your kicks.

And just for those that haven't realized, this thread is two years old, and I'm sure Labatt hasn't been on MAP for quite awhile now.

[MarioBro]

And just for those that haven't realized, this thread is two years old, and I'm sure Labatt hasn't been on MAP for quite awhile now.
Holy cow...you are right! I did not look at the year of the original post...just the date which seemed reasonable...:o.

[Yudanja]

Well, back to the interesting stuff...

Labbat, do you have to pay for each of these unusual 'gup' tests between Dans?

The whole idea of having 'gups' given between Dan test is not normal in anything I have ever seen, particularily in the WTF. If you are paying for each test, you may be getting ripped of IMHO. If you are not paying, then I am still at a loss as far as this system goes.

Once reaching first Dan, the tests should be occuring at least 1 year, then 2 after that, then 3 after that, etc. Is anyone else totally baffled by this?

I have never heard of this. Sounds like a money making scam to me. I dont even agree with some of the associations or schools that have these DECIDED or RECOMMENDED black belt ranks. These make no sense to me whatsoever. You are either a 1st Dan or you are not. Plain and simple. Anything else is just way of keepinga student in your dojang and squeezing a few more months dues out of him.

My black belts do not pay dues. To me they have earned free lessons.

Sabum Steve Hartsock

[MarioBro]

I have never heard of this. Sounds like a money making scam to me. I dont even agree with some of the associations or schools that have these DECIDED or RECOMMENDED black belt ranks. These make no sense to me whatsoever. You are either a 1st Dan or you are not. Plain and simple. Anything else is just way of keepinga student in your dojang and squeezing a few more months dues out of him.

My black belts do not pay dues. To me they have earned free lessons.

Sabum Steve Hartsock
Well then eventually you would think your business would stop making money when your members keep increasing but your dues are decreasing relative to the increased number of members. To support increasing numbers you will need to expand in order to increase member numbers to obtain new paying members. To expand means you will likely have increased costs. If you are not expanding then you are limiting the number of members, and as the number of non-paying black belts increases you are using up potential new member spots.

This seems to be a bad business decision aside from anything else, and in the long run may not be good for you or your members. You would be better off still charging black-belts, even if it is a discounted fee. Just my opinion of course.

[Yudanja]

Well then eventually you would think your business would stop making money when your members keep increasing but your dues are decreasing relative to the increased number of members. To support increasing numbers you will need to expand in order to increase member numbers to obtain new paying members. To expand means you will likely have increased costs. If you are not expanding then you are limiting the number of members, and as the number of non-paying black belts increases you are using up potential new member spots.

This seems to be a bad business decision aside from anything else, and in the long run may not be good for you or your members. You would be better off still charging black-belts, even if it is a discounted fee. Just my opinion of course.

I am fortunate that I do not have to rely on teaching to make a living. I dont think that for me personally that martial-arts should be about "business". The all mighty dollar doesnt come close to the personal satisfaction i recieve when i teach someone something new.

If i could afford to buy a building i would teach everyone for free. To me it's not about money.

Sabum Steve Hartsock

[taikwido]

Try kicking in a pool. The resistance is uniform.

[taikwido]

I have never heard of this. Sounds like a money making scam to me. I dont even agree with some of the associations or schools that have these DECIDED or RECOMMENDED black belt ranks. These make no sense to me whatsoever. You are either a 1st Dan or you are not. Plain and simple. Anything else is just way of keepinga student in your dojang and squeezing a few more months dues out of him.

My black belts do not pay dues. To me they have earned free lessons.

Sabum Steve Hartsock


... for most BlackBelts, if you're good enough and helpful enough, you can just stop showing up for class. That is when you can get free lessons ;-)

To me, good classes rely on the wealth of experience spread around the class. 30 white belts is NOT good. More experienced students means more delegation. More experienced sparring partners means less injuries from "wildness".

[Yudanja]

... for most BlackBelts, if you're good enough and helpful enough, you can just stop showing up for class. That is when you can get free lessons ;-)

To me, good classes rely on the wealth of experience spread around the class. 30 white belts is NOT good. More experienced students means more delegation. More experienced sparring partners means less injuries from "wildness".
True. When i first started in 1984ish.LOL..I remember there being about 10 black belts 2 2nd Dans and the rest 1st Dans all lined up with about 15 colored belts behind them.
This is pretty much the way it stayed for 15 years...the turnover rate was real high especially for lower belts. My Instructor (then a 3rd Dan) was a police officer and taught at the FBI academy.
He was a former marine so the classes were very disciplined. Some just couldnt handle it.. personally I liked it. Got rid of a lot of the whiners and kids who were just there cause they saw karate kid or kung fu movies on TV.