Is it just me???

[chris c]

Is this just a problem that affects me?

I have been training in Martial Arts on and off from being 16. I always set off like a steam train but always end up leaving about a year down the line. Up till now I had no idea why this was but I seem to have worked it out...... Gradings and Belts!

I don't care about belts, i don't crave to be a black belt, silly I know but a belt holds my pants up nothing more. All I want is a Martial Art which is applicable to what I do! Now before you all start shouting about having no respect, wait. I have trained with some of the very best instructors at club level and have nothing but the highest respect for all of them, some of the things these guys are capable of (two in particular, you know who i mean) is beyond belief!

It's probably the way I am but I just want application of technique which is beneficial to myself and my needs and this, to me, is not signified by a coloured belt round my waist. A perfect example of this was when I was training in Kickboxing/Lau Gar Kung Fu. I was flying through the Kickboxing sylabus (spelling??) but struggling with the Kung Fu forms and this eventually led to my leaving. Sure, you can say, why not just do Kickboxing? Well yeah, but some of the Lau Gar stuff was really good and useful, I just wasn't being taught it cus I couldn't remember a form! Again this is not a slur on Lau Gar, just my feelings.

So my question is this, is it possible to become a well balanced (ie stand-up, grappling Fighter) without having to grade and go for belts?? Comments please!

[YODA]

Hi Chris

Yes - it's very possible.

I run such a club :D

I've a sneaking feeling I know which Chris C this is. PC Chris? If so I'll get Cooler to give you access to the private CEA forum.

[Mike Flanagan]

A belt doesn't make a martial artist, no matter what colour it is. But I have to wonder why you pack in training. Because the instructor says you have to learn something for your next grading and you don't want to?

Surely a grading syllabus is there to ensure that you learn the things that your instructor believes you need to develop as a martial artist. Its not really up to you as a student to pick and choose what you want to learn, its up to your instructor to teach you what he/she thinks you need to know.

What you can pick and choose though is what instructor you train with. I'd suggest you find one that you want to learn from and study whatever material they ask you to. Whether you are tested at regular intervals or not is irrelevant then.

Mike

[pesilat]

Originally posted by chris c
So my question is this, is it possible to become a well balanced (ie stand-up, grappling Fighter) without having to grade and go for belts?? Comments please!

Absolutely. Ignore the belts. If they're given to you, fine. Use them to hold up your pants, or put them in the closet.

Formally, I've got 3 black belts ... a 4th Dan in Doce Pares/Eskrido, a 1st in Sikal, and a 2nd in Shen Chuan.

I never set out to get any of them and didn't care about the belts along the way ... and still don't. The *only* people who care about my ranks at all are (some) potential students.

Serious martial artists don't ever care about the ranks because they realize that the ranks are meaningless.

Outside of a specific school, a specific rank is a measure of nothing. A black belt at one school may well be equivalent to a blue belt at another.

And when it comes to application ... an instructor's certificate has never, in my experience, stopped a punch from hitting me. Though a belt might if used properly :)

The whole time I've been training, I've had one single goal. To improve. Period. That's it. Each day I strive to improve myself in some way. When I do, great! When I don't ... fine ... I'll try harder the next day.

The ranks came as recognition for my efforts. That's all.

I don't care what rank I have ... I care if I can use and teach what I know. I don't care what rank someone else has ... we all put our pants on 1 leg at a time. If the skill they display on the mat (either teaching, training, sparring, or fighting) supports their alleged rank, then I'll respect that skill. If it doesn't, then I'll still respect whatever skill they have ... I'll just know that either their "rank" is inflated or they've been riding their laurels for a few years.

But the bottom line is ... "can you do it." (whether "it" is teaching, sparring, fighting, training ... whatever)

When the rubber meets the road, do you have the tools to get the job done? That's the bottom line.

A black belt (or equivalent rank) is equivalent to a high school diploma. It's a tangible representation that specific requirements have been met to the satisfaction of a specific school. Out in the real world, it doesn't mean much. Take it for what it's worth and get back to training.

Mike

[DeSeRt RaT UK]

well said.

I think people associate belts with experiance, which generally is wrong. Take for exmaple two ads in the local paper:

1) Karate classes : Black belt in one year guaranteed!
2) Karate classes : Black belt in ten years guaranteed!

Most people would opt for the first choice, even if after 10 years at that school you wouldn't be as good as #2 at 10 years.

So far I've never graded at my school where I do escrima mainly because my teacher doesn't place a strong emphazise on grading even though he organize them once in a blue moon where we would be able to double or even triple grade if we know whats desired of us to get the grade.

I don't use belts as motivation, so it doesn't bother me if I don't grade.

[chris c]

Thanks for the quick replies!!!

Dave, yep its me!!

Kinda realised I need to get back into it again after got involved in an incident at a pub where two colleagues of mine came very much unstuck, luckily they weren't badly hurt and the rest of us got there in time to stop any more damage being done (amazing how people will ring to say police are being beaten up but won't get involved to stop it?!?).

You can't help but wonder how you would react in their situation, one of the lads was being picked up by his throat, all 10 stone of him, and just did not know what to do! So it's back to the gym and back, if they'll have me, to the club to try and buckle down. Still not interested in belts but if they happen they happen!!!:rolleyes:

[YODA]

Originally posted by chris c
.. one of the lads was being picked up by his throat, all 10 stone of him, and just did not know what to do!

As a trained Police Officer he [pb]SHOULD[/b] know what to do. It's about tim,e they gave you guys some decent training rather than 4 hours of wrist locks. :woo:


So it's back to the gym and back, if they'll have me, to the club to try and buckle down. Still not interested in belts but if they happen they happen!!!:rolleyes:

You know your always welcome at my club Chris. And don't worry - no belts :D --- Just remember to cover your ribs when you spar :p :p :p

[Jim]

A black belt (or equivalent rank) is equivalent to a high school diploma. It's a tangible representation that specific requirements have been met to the satisfaction of a specific school.

One of our senior instructors liked the Black Belt grade to a driver's license, just because you've been taught the basics doesn't mean that you'll be invulnerable...

[Andrew Green]

More like having seniority at work, it doesn't mean your good, it means you've been there a while. So you get special priveledges and don't actually have to do any real work because the union will protect you and keep those new people below you no matter how good they do :D

[darlph]

pesilat and Jim, you said it. Have you ever noticed at most seminars that alot of old timers don't wear a belt? They are there to learn, not show off. I am the oldest and longest 1st degree at my school, also an instructor. I have no problem with those who pass me. In fact, several who just did, I taught them most of their 3 forms. A belt looks good on a wall. I'm over it. I'm here for me and those who want to learn..
And I'll tell you another unsaid thing, a martial artist who has been in it to black belt has thought about quitting at least twice. Usually, they come back to their senses when they realise how "addicted" they are to the art and people. Perhaps they just had a really bad day or in my case, year. Who knows?
I think like the rest of us, you get a little bored with whats going on. I mean do you know how many times I have taught our first form? ooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh!

[pesilat]

Originally posted by darlph
pesilat and Jim, you said it. Have you ever noticed at most seminars that alot of old timers don't wear a belt? They are there to learn, not show off. I am the oldest and longest 1st degree at my school, also an instructor. I have no problem with those who pass me. In fact, several who just did, I taught them most of their 3 forms. A belt looks good on a wall. I'm over it. I'm here for me and those who want to learn..
And I'll tell you another unsaid thing, a martial artist who has been in it to black belt has thought about quitting at least twice. Usually, they come back to their senses when they realise how "addicted" they are to the art and people. Perhaps they just had a really bad day or in my case, year. Who knows?
I think like the rest of us, you get a little bored with whats going on. I mean do you know how many times I have taught our first form? ooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh!

Yup. Unless I'm teaching or assisting at a seminar, I don't even consider wearing any indication of rank ... and I often don't even when I am assisting or teaching.

I've actually never thought about quitting. I was forced, by circumstances, to quit formal training for a while in the 80's ... but, honestly, the thought of leaving MA completely never crossed my mind. But I know that I'm one of the exceptions.

Mike

[Darzeka]

I think the belt is also a good indicator of skill level.
Our belts are rather long and arduous from the beginning and the belt steps are rather dramatic. When we are doing circle of death or something where you are looking for spontaneus reactions with pretty high risk maneuvers it is a good idea to know what level the person you are throwing is at so you don't do something they aren't ready for.
This is not so much for sheltering the learning process but to make sure no-one gets hurt - I had a couple of higher belts instinctively perform throws quickly on me that i had never seen before. Nothing bad happened because I am very good at falling but I know that some others at our dojo could have been hurt from these high risk throws.

That aside I don't know there is any reason to have that much tradition associated with the belts.
I also wouldn't even consider goin for multiple gradings after the second grading. A week of punishment isn't my idea of a pleasant way to grade.

[pesilat]

The only real practical reason I've seen for belts is this:

My Kali/Silat instructor, Guru Ken, has certified 4 instructors. 3 of us now live in other cities. When we're in town, we sometimes teach classes to give Guru Ken a break. Since we're not in class regularly, we often don't know everyone in class. And the sashes help us identify approximately where people should be in the curriculum. That type of situation is about the only one I've ever seen where I think it's really of practical use.

In my own classes, I don't use any rank indicators currently because I'm the only instructor and I know where everyone is in their training.

Mike

[Sonshu]

the root of your problems is the age old git - KATA!

Just do a style that has none or very little - Taijitsu (Ninjitsu to most people) its good, effective realistic and has some stunningly powerful techniques.

However for a more rounded self defence form - mix it with some Kickboxing to build up your striking/sparing real time skills.

SONSHU - by the way - see "To Kata or not to Kata" thead - its a good one!

[Raiden]

It's a shame the belt system can't be used to signify skill accurately in Martial Arts as a whole. But that is because there are so many MA schools open soley for the purpose of making money. They can use the "I can get you your black belt in one year" tactic to sway them into signing up. One thing I love about my current school is this. Once you get your purple belt (we only have 2 and our class is pretty big). They have to defend their belts every class period. At the end of the class, the coach picks one person to spar with them. Granted they only have to spar with someone just under them, but if they lose to a blue belt, they lose their belt. I like this rule. It's fair, because he/she is not required to defend it against someone of greater skill but it keeps the student on his toes. That's just my opinion. I agree that generally the belts signify nothing..most of the time, but if the school utilizes them properly, they can be used to judge the skillset of a student.