A bench press for a 14 year old...

[Sean O]

Okay, I'm 14 years old, about 5'8, about 140 pounds, and this christmas I'm getting a bench press and a set of weights to go with it (not the puny 10 pounders though).

Although I want to start weight training now, I want to know how to go about it and how it could affect me (being so young and all).

I've heard that you shouldn't start until about 15-16, because thats when your bones stop growing for the most part, but I've been 5'8 for a while now, so I don't know if that will change anything.

I've also heard that unless you use your bench press religiously, then all the muscle you gain will turn to fat. Also want an opinion on this.

Basically, just help me in any way you can to understand whether I should do this or not, and if yes, then how to go about doing it?

Sean O

[YODA]

Hi Sean

I don't have much time right now but wanted to get this in before the inevitable plethora of varying opinions flood in...

Yes - you CAN weight train at your age. You must train correctly and with a routine specifically designed for your age & goals. I can & will advise you on that routine. Watch this space.

I'll need to know exactly what equipment you have & how much weight.

You should consider ALL advice given but please, get an idea on how qualified that advice is.

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by Sean O

I've also heard that unless you use your bench press religiously, then all the muscle you gain will turn to fat. Also want an opinion on this.

Sean O

Hi Sean,
Its a bit of a modern day myth that fat turns to muscle, what happens is that as you increase your training your calorie requirement increases i.e. you eat more food, but if you cut back or change you're training methods and don't also change you're eating habits you will not burn off all of the calories that you eat, resulting in weight gain. This added to any increase in muscle mass can make you appear fat. In made this mistake a few years ago when i blew out my knee and then tore muscles in my shoulder a few years back and I ended up with a 50" chest (I'm 5'10 and very broad anyways) so be careful with your diet. IGNORE the silly bodybuilding diets they do more harm than good in the long run.

Also like YODA (sage that he is) said listen to all advice and if you can seek professional qualified advise, try not train alone - you'll pick up bad habits and it can be dangerous, and remember weight training, body building, and powerlifting are all like martial arts - it's all about technique (see my knackered shoulder) not brute stength, so don't rush yourself to lift big iron.

[Joe karate]

Sean, i started working out when i was 14 to and two years later still do. its probably best to listen to YODA but remember not to ignore the rest of your body. You need to workout your back,shoulders,legs,and stomach to. Since you are only fourteen your weightlifting routine will be different than that of an older person. When i was 14 i realized this and started out slowly. However i gained a lot of strength compared to what i was. Also you refer to pressing "religiously". Coaches at my school and weightlifting sites do not suggest working a muscle group more than twice a week with weighted excercise. Oh, and don't forget, listen to YODA.

[TkdWarrior]

yup Yoda's "Da Man" he's rite but from my point of view u should try circuit training(where u do exercise for every muscles)...it would be much better...
-TkdWarrior-

[Sean O]

Well, the bench I'm getting has butterfly arms and a leg curl attachment to it. It's made by york if it helps. The weights are a 115 lb set, and they're made by weider.

My goals for this are mainly to have more physical strength, and on a smaller note, a better physique (although I'm pretty content with mine right now anyways).

Also, I'm not just gonna weight train, I'm also getting a punching bag (acually its a "martial arts bag" it's anchored to the ground and to the ceiling, so when you kick it it'll stay in place). Was also considering getting something to work the abs but I can just do that through exercises.

Now that I know that I can train at this age and I won't get fat, then I guess I want to know more about circuit training, an appropriate diet, and if my equipment is any good for someone like me. Also I wouldn't mind an article from you yoda, or have you run out already? :D

Sean O

[YODA]

LOL! - I'll never run out. :D

Whe you get your stuff I'll sort you out with a good routing using all the equipment you have.

[Sean O]

Gotcha. Thanks man.

[Sean O]

Oh yeah... what about the whole weight training can stunt your growth thing? From what I know, it has something to do with your muscles growing faster than your bones, but I may be wrong, thats why I'm asking you guys. Any thoughts?

[YODA]

The level of weight training you will be able to do at home with a basic weights set will not stunt your growth. Just train right, eat right, sleep right - and you'll do fine.

[dredleviathan]

Hi Sean O,

Just a point about the York bench that you are getting as it sounds exactly the same as the one I bought when I was about 16. The fly units are a bit crappy as they don't adjust to fit your particular body make-up (unless you have a far better version than I).

I also found the leg extension unit of limited use.

It depends what routine you end up with of course but I found that the squat rack was a far better add-on than the fly unit and the leg extension unit.

Hope your training goes well. Don't get too caught up in the weights huh!

[YODA]

Don't worry about the fly or leg extention attachments - these are crap exercises anyway which have very little merit for the martial artist.

I'd take the squat rack any day :D

[Sean O]

Can I get an article or two from you now Yoda? That's half of the reason I started this thread :).

[YODA]

Patience young Padawan :D

[Sean O]

Psh, patience.... whatever :). Just give me one for christmas or something.

[Sean O]

Alright, I've done more research, and now that I know what I'm doing, I've made a plan for myself. Just want to see what you guys think. (The numbers beside the exercises are the general order I'm doing them in)

Day 1 - Upper Body
1. Bench Press, Push-ups, Flies, Dips, Pull-ups, Chin-ups
2. Shoulder Press, Military Press, Raises
3. Barbell Curls, Concentration Curls, Preacher Curls, Bench Dips, Frech Press
4. Wrist Curls

Day 2 - Lower Body
1. Basic Crunch, Twist Crunch, Hanging Abs, Rolling Ball, Pelvic Tilt
2. Squats, Barbell Squat, Stiff-legged Deadlift, Standing Raise, Lunge

Day 3 - Rest

[Sean O]

Oh also for each exercise I'm doing 3 sets of 15, with rest inbetween of course.

[YODA]

Hi Sean

That's way too many exercises per muscle group. Pick ONE - two at most.

Stick to as many compound exercises as you can.

Don't lift weights more than twice per week.

[Sean O]

Hmm...

You mean I need to work each muscle group twice a week, no more than that. Thats why I've got the upper body stuff on day 1 and the lower body and ab work on day 2. I'm just gonna repeat the cycle.

By compound exercises, you mean ones that work more than one spot at once, right? Tell me if I'm wrong.

Which exercises do you think I should give up?

[r4bid]

Yoda is saying that you are exercising the same muscle too much each time you work out. You shouldn't be doing all those chest exercises in one day, nor the back ones. Pick 1 lift per muscle and do that.

[YODA]

Try this.....

Day 1 - Chest / Back / Shoudlers / Abs
1. Basic Crunch, Twist Crunch, Hanging Abs
2. Bench Press - 3 x 8-12 reps
3. Dips - 1 x Max reps (Good form, nice & slow)
4. Chin-ups - 3 x max reps (when you can do 3 x 15 slowly in good form you'll need to add weight)
5. Shoulder Press - 3 x 8-12 reps


Take 2 days rest before...


Day 2 - Legs / Arms / Abs
1. Basic Crunch, Rolling Ball, Pelvic Tilt
2. Squats - 3 x 12-15 reps
3. Bent legged Deadlift 3 x 8-12 reps
4. Standing calf raise - 3 x 15
5. Barbell Curls - 3 x 8-12
6. French Press - 3 x 8-12

Take at least 2 days rest before doing workout 1 again.

When you can do 12 reps on set 3 (of an 8-12 exercise) then add weight so that you can only manage 8 again.

[Sean O]

Yoda, not to disrespect what you know, but why is it that every single source I've looked at says that you don't need two days rest, and you can work out 4 days of the week if you split the upper and lower body?

[YODA]

Because they're talking about bodybuilding rather than performance based strength training for a combat athlete.

[Sean O]

I like the way you organized the exercises, I'm definately gonna use that routine, I'm just gonna go with my two days then one day rest thing.

[YODA]

You'll get less gains if you do - your choice.

Put it this way - if you CAN go with two days on / one day off, then you are NOT working hard enough!

[ROBERT]

I must agree with yoda. I have been weight training for 12 years. I have personally tried just about every type of routine available. I even tried cybergenics (anyone remember that?). For the last few years (after many injuries) I started working each muscle group with only one or two compound movement exercises never more than twice in a week. I only lift one day in a row.
You see if you do a proper workout on your upper body. For at least 48 hours your body is repairing itself. If you try an equally exhausting lower body workout the very next day your body will not have the resources to heal your upper body fully and you will never see your full potential.
Take in mind that most of the bodybuilders who's routines you see are optimized for someone who uses steroids. Steroids helps your body recover faster than normal so you can workout more often (although the SERIOUS health risks outweigh the MINOR benifits).
Your muscles get stronger and bigger ONLY when you are recovering. I weight train less than 4 hours a week and am capable of bench pressing double, and squatting 2.5 times my body weight. (not bragging, just an example of how quality is better than quantity)

Good luck in your training,
Robert

P.S. This is my first post. Lontime lurker though.

[YODA]

Hi Robert

Thanks for the vote of support - you obviously know your stuff :D

Cybergenics - LOL! Yeah - I remember!

[Sean O]

Your muscles get stronger and bigger ONLY when you are recovering.

Never knew that. If doing it with 2 days rest will give me more strength and a better physique, then I'll do it.

[r4bid]

yup, lifting basically tears your muscle fibres (or thats what I was told by my gym teacher, correct me if I am wrong) and during your off days your body repairs the damage and builds up your muscles more so that next time it will take more stress to do the same amount of damage.

[Jazman]

Just wanna add my two cents worth

Yoda suggested 1 - max set of dips, I have found it to feel more complete and believe them to work better if you do 2 sets to almost near failure and then do your max on the last set.
If you're going for strength then 10 reps on bench is plenty usually. You may want to put in a high number of reps like 20 or a low number like 5 to encourage your muscles to grow faster. Monotonous workouts can sometimes not be to good.

Try not to do too many calf raises in a row, 3 sets of 15 like he suggests is good, but don't do sets to failure with no weight. With poor stretching it can easily inhibit you from walking properlyby overworking the muscles(horrible memories about that)

Considering the two days workout that yoda suggested are different areas mostly you should be able to only miss 1 day in between. although if you are new to working out of any sort it can take a full 2 days. Your muscles actually become better at recovering as you progress. I can workout nearly every day after having nearly killed myself the previous night.

Good luck, hope I helped.

[ROBERT]

Originally posted by Jazman
Just wanna add my two cents worth

Yoda suggested 1 - max set of dips, I have found it to feel more complete and believe them to work better if you do 2 sets to almost near failure and then do your max on the last set.
If you're going for strength then 10 reps on bench is plenty usually. You may want to put in a high number of reps like 20 or a low number like 5 to encourage your muscles to grow faster. Monotonous workouts can sometimes not be to good.

I believe that Yoda was suggesting a single set of dips because of the previouse 3 intense sets of benchpress. The most comman mistake weightlifters make is overtraining(been there). See your comment about calves. You admit that it is not hard to overwork them, yet they are substantially more dense and can take alot more punishment than your chest muscles can. It is far easier and more common for people to overwork thier chest.


Considering the two days workout that yoda suggested are different areas mostly you should be able to only miss 1 day in between. although if you are new to working out of any sort it can take a full 2 days. Your muscles actually become better at recovering as you progress. I can workout nearly every day after having nearly killed myself the previous night.

Just because you are working different areas does not mean you do not need to let your body rest. As your body is healing torn muscle it is using as much of it's resources that are available. If you workout a different area before your muscles are recovered your body will have to split its resources and you will not see your FULL gains. The only way it takes less time for your body to heal is if you do not work it as hard. If you are no longer getting sore then you need to increase you intensity. I can workout nearly every day after having nearly killed myself the previous night. Nearly everyone CAN, it does not mean that they should. I used to workout 4hours a day 6days a week(for over 7 years). I gained alot in that period, mostly knowledge that I was working out far too much.

I am not sure if it has been mentioned but it is very important that your muscles are properly streched and warmed up before you lift.

Robert

[YODA]

Let's not loose sight of the original question here. There are many weight lifting protocols for many different uses & goals. My advice was based on the original info given.....

Okay, I'm 14 years old, about 5'8, about 140 pounds,

Bearing that in mind I stand by everything I have said. In fact - I would LOVE it for Sean to do just squats, deadlifts, flat bench & chins - once per week - but I know he will not so I compomised :D

[Sean O]

My goals for this are mainly to have more physical strength, and on a smaller note, a better physique (although I'm pretty content with mine right now anyways).

So if I do the routine you gave me and work myself hard as I can (without pushing it) each day I do exercise, will I accomplish this? Also now my physique is just as important as my strength.

[Cain]

erm........not a bodybuilding expert here.........but sean, why not join a gym if u want just strength n physique, strength is possible if u join a gym without the martial arts, the workout is different for a martial artist ......just my thoughts.......

|Cain|

[YODA]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
the workout is different for a martial artist ......just my thoughts.......

|Cain|

That's what I've been trying to get across all along!

[Cain]

**Cain blushes n floats n goes thru the roof**

:D

|Cain|

[Sean O]

I'm not joining a gym because as this thread's name says, I'm still fourteen, and I can't really afford a membership (plus I have better things to do than find some gym and go there every few days). The things I have right now are working fine for me.

The way I see it, a workout for a martial artist would train strength, speed and endurance. Ive already got speed, which I can train without special equipment, my endurance is already great, and since I'm pretty active already, I don't think I need to worry about that.

Strength is what I'm looking for, but also to just clean up my physique a little (make an even better impression on the girls).

[Cain]

Hehe someone on this forum taught me ur attitude and body language is more important than ur physical appearance when it comes to females, and he was rite since I got damn close to some :D

Ok listen Sean, I just want to know wat do u mean be a good physique? Is it toning up ur body or is it to get six pack abs or increasing muscle size? Answer these and I may think that the martial artist workout can help u in achieving the first two

However remember I started with the weights just about a month ago and trust me they are no easy exercises, they require hard work n determination to continue training with, it's nothing like those 5 min exersices u see in the ads...........maybe I be wrong here........if I am then I will let the heavyweights correct me :D

|Cain|

[Sean O]

What, you think I've never had a girl before? Come on... :D I know that when it comes down to it, physical looks come second, but its still a great way to attract them before you meet em. Image is nothing, yet everything at the same time.

But anyways, looks are what a good physique is man, and yeah, I'm looking to build up my muscles. I'm pretty sure I already have a six pack, but I need to burn off some fat for it to show. Basically I want to be that much bigger, sort of fix up whatever I can. I also want strength, for obvious reasons. I'm sure the routine yoda gave me will help me with both of those things.

One thing though yoda... rather than split up the exercises and make two different days, couldnt I put em all together? I mean except for the tris and bis each day works a completely different set of muscles. Should I shut up or is this a good idea?

[YODA]

Just do what you want Sean.

[Sean O]

...Whatever. If you have something to say about that though, then say it. I'm the one who needs to learn here.

[Cain]

Sean, a little amateaur advice - Why don't u first try out the routine which Yoda devised for u?

|Cain|

[YODA]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
Sean, a little amateaur advice - Why don't u first try out the routine which Yoda devised for u?

|Cain|


Good advice Cain.

Sean - try my routine for 3 months - that's all it's for anyway - I'm sure you'll get good results IF you stick to it - less emphasis on looking for more - more emphasis on getting your ass in the gym and working!

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by YODA

more emphasis on getting your ass in the gym and working!

Words to live by I think!

I also think the key to any weight training is quality not quanitity, it's far bettter to do 1 good hour than 4 lazy hours in the gym. Few exercises per gym session allow you to concentrate on those lifting techniques instead of watching the clock.

[Sean O]

*sigh*... I dont know what it is about me, but people never seem to get my points, either that or they jump to conclusions about me. Let me make some things very clear.

- I am a very patient person. I am completely willing to put in time and effort to improve my physique and become stronger using the equipment I have (weight bench, chin-up bar, dip station, weights)

- I am not going to sign up for a gym. Don't tell me to do this anymore.

- I only suggested that I do all the exercises twice a week is because they seem to work completely different muscle groups. Also like I said, I'm looking to bodybuild as well as become stronger and to get more muscular endurance. My understanding is that merging the exercises would help me to do this. Thats what I wanted to know from you guys.

[iolair]

DON'T BODYBUILD!!!!!!!!!

As you're only 14, your skeleton is still growing, and using large weights can distort the shape of your bones as they grow... This would be a really bad thing and would likely give you problems the rest of your life.

If you need to do strength training, try to stick to using your own bodyweight where possible ... (i.e. dips, push-ups etc).

[Sean O]

Alright, bodybuilding was the wrong word to use. I want to get a little more buff, not become bigger than Schwarzeneggar. Just a few more muscles to show off, yeah?

[Jazman]

ok, well, If you think you have that determination and patience then do the workout YODA told you, add my parts also(I stand by mine) It sounds like a good routine for me, In the mean time, make sure you don't go for muscle gains, i.e. getting buff. It will come, work on strengh and endurance. Also, if you wanna get ripped you gotta run, run, run, also lunges, do 80-120 yard wind sprints till you think you're gonna faint. Then after 1-2 days of rest do it again, in the off days just run a couple miles. Try not to do sprints and lifting on the same day, if you do you'll understand why not to. Yeah, and don't combine the workouts into 1 day. Also, never say "Bodybuilding" again, I'm a weightlifter, but I despise "Bodybuilders", who give us a bad name. ;) ( I remember when I was young and foolish... oh wait! I still am.)

[Sean O]

Alright. I know you guys want me to just go with the routine yoda gave me, and I have been, but I have to give you guys some of my ideas for another routine, this time with as much detail as I can give.


1. Bench Press
2. Chin-Ups (I have a few questions about chin ups further down the post)
3. Dips (Also I'm wondering how important it is to do 1 set of dips if I'm already doing the bench press)
4. Shoulder Press
5. Either Barbell Curls or Concentration Curls (I need you to pick)
6. A triceps exercise (I don't like the french press, can you give me another good one?)
7. Wrist Curls
8. Basic Crunch - 1 minute slowly with good form
9. Pelvic Tilt - 1 minute slowly with good form
10. Barbell Squats
11. Bent- Legged Deadlift
12. Standing Calf Raise

Thats if I did all those in one day and waited two before starting again. If I did it the way yoda told me to...

Day 1
1. Bench Press
2. Chin Ups
3. Dips
4. Shoulder Press
5. Basic Crunch
6. Pelvic Tilt

Day 2
1. Either Barbell Curls or Concentration Curls
2. A triceps exercise
3. Wrist Curls
4. Basic Crunch
5. Pelvic Tilt
6. Squats
7. Bent-Legged Deadlift
8. Standing Calf Raises

I didn't list how many sets or reps because I want it to change over time. I have 5 phases, each one lasting 2 weeks to a month. This is what I was thinking...

Phase 1 - Light weight, 1-3 sets per muscle group, 12-15 reps per set, 1 minute rest between sets

Phase 2 - Moderate weight, 4 - 6 sets per muscle group, 10-12 reps per set, 1 minute rest between sets

Phase 3 - Heavy weights, 7-12 sets per muscle group, 8-10 reps per set, half a minute rest between sets

Phase 4 - Max weight, 12-15 sets per muscle group (maybe even 20, who knows?), 6-8 reps per set, 2 minutes rest between sets

Phase 5 - Lighter weight than Phase 1, 1-2 sets per muscle group, 12-15 reps per set, 1 minute rest between sets, I might have to stop all working out until I go back to phase 1.

Now the questions I have...

Is whether I do chinups first or not important? Will this make it easier to do more per set? Give me the info on these.

Is the 1 set of dips that important to do, considering there is bench presses work the same muscle groups, and it might overwork my shoulders?

Does eating before or after I workout have any effect on how long I can perform?

Concentration curls, or barbell curls?

Give me a good tricep exercise other than the french press please.

I think thats all.. if I remember something else I'll tell you guys.

[Jazman]

first off, there is no reason to do more than 4 sets with any muscle group(I only do 3), if you can feel your muscles after 4 you aren't working hard enough, The dip sets depends on how well you feel after bench, but you might prefer do do those first, I suggest all of the exersizes using your own weight, i.e. chinups/pullups, pushups and dips be done first. I prefer Barbell curls rather than concentration. With barbell curls, try doing 21's, lower weight to halfway up, all way down, half way up... 7 times, from halfway up to full way up 7 times, and then 7 full reps. Gives a good full bicep workout, do 2 sets of this.(Can really give you good definition) Not familiar with french press so try this, do tricep extensions with one knee on bench, other foot on ground, put weight in hand, lean forward, extend arm straight back so parallel with ground(not sure what it is called) When you do shoulder press, I'm assuming "military press"? I like doing them standing up, and use barbells, not machines for them, they give an odd movement like a curve, plus it makes you look stronger when you do them with a barbell. Lastly, I eat while I work out, it makes some people puke though. HAHA, once I ate skittles while I did crunches.
Good Luck

[YODA]

Sean - you've totally missed the point of all my advice. Concentration curls? Phases 1-5? Wrist curls?

Keep looking for that ultimate new routine Sean - you'll find a new and contradictory one every few weeks. Pick something BASIC and get on with it - a few BIG compound exercises done with maximum intensity no more than twice per week with adequate rest and nutrition. THAT is what you need.

This is the last time I will attempt to flog this dead horse!

One last bit of advice - take it or leave it....this is the best $25 you will ever spend.....

Beyond Brawn (http://www.hardgainer.com/beyondbrawn.html)

[r4bid]

sean: Yoda suggested that I do a similar routine to the one he told you about and all I can say is that he was right. Using his suggested routine I have made some pretty good gains and it has only been a bit over 3 weeks. I havn't been able to do all of it due to a lack of space and equipment but what I have been able to do (the benching, chinnups, deadlifts) have been great.

As Yoda said, compound lifts are essential, don't try to work each part individually thats just crazy!

[Cain]

sean: Yoda suggested that I do a similar routine to the one he told you about and all I can say is that he was right.

Same here Sean, along with the results of course :D

|Cain|

[ROBERT]

I only wish that I had someone like Yoda give me advise when I started lifting. It took me over half of a decade to figure out what he is telling you.

I have personally tried just about every magic routine available. And you know what, nearly all of them work(to an extent). What I am saying is that since you are new to lifting, any routine will give you some results. You just have to decide if you want to get the BEST results with the least amount of work possible.

My advice is to listen to Yoda.

Robert

[Sean O]

I never doubted that yoda knows what hes doing, and I have been using his routine, and been liking it. I just like to explore what I know and try and apply it, blah blah blah. I mainly posted that to answer a few of my questions (other than the ones I asked). I'll stop bugging you guys with my amateur ideas and stick with yodas routine. But just one more thing...

Concentration Curls? Wrist Curls?

Whats that supposed to mean?

[YODA]

It's means don't waste your time with crappy isolation exercises. Stick to the big compound lifts.

[YODA]

THERE ARE NO MAGIC TRAINING FORMULAS

By Bob Whelan

Posted on NaturalStrength.com on August 3, 1999

Reprinted with permission of The Iron Master, Jan 1995

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can spend so much time and energy looking for shortcuts. If they spent half that energy on hard training, focusing on the basics, they would get the results they yearn for. The fitness industry is scandalous and makes this situation worse by offering all sorts of gimmicks and promises of great results for little or no effort. The megahype muscle magazines are the worst example. Thesemagazines are replete with drug users and routines are written by (and for) drug users. The information found in them is not only fraudulent but may even be harmful to non-drug users. If you train naturally, there is no magic formula. You must build muscle the old-fashion way--you must earn it!

There is only one absolute rule in strength training (and muscle building): Hard Progressive Training + Good Nutrition + adequate recovery = results! Period. Any results that anyone ever got had to follow that formula, not miracles or gimmicks, just hard work, nutritious food, and plenty of rest. Intensity is defined as the amount of work done per unit of time. There are four ways to increase intensity: (1) progressive resistance (the best way and the highest priority), (2) more reps per set (such as in a set to failure), (3) reducing the amount of rest between sets (get enough to recover but not an excessive amount), and (4) making the movement harder by using stricter form.

It doesn't matter if you do pyramids, reverse pyramids, or straight sets, superslow or superfast. It doesn't matter if you go 2 seconds up and 4 seconds down or 10 seconds up and 5 seconds down. And it doesn't matter if you do one set to failure or a few (don't do too many though). There is no ideal method or ideal range of reps, sets, etc. As long as you train at a high level of intensity in the anaerobic energy system (fast twitch), you will get results. The mode and methods are not universal so you should experiment, but focus on the basic movements. Try different variations (using common sense periodization). Find the methods you like, but always stick to the absolute rule. Intensity is work, but there is more than one way to use it effectively.

Most people don't want to hear about hard work. They don't want to do heavy squats or deadlifts. They don't want to pay the price. If you are natural, you must build muscle the old-fashioned way. Grimek, Hackenschmidt, Klein, Eifferman, Apollon, Travis, Farbotnik, and others earned their muscle and respect. The drug using stars of today get no respect from me. Most of them don't work nearly as hard as the old-timers; they can just do the easy exercises and still get huge. Let's see how big they are when they are 50 (if they're still around!) If you are natural, forget toning, shaping, and body sculpting -- you need high-intensity training!

The second part of the absolute rule is good nutrition. I mean food, not powders, pills, and promises. Most food supplements are a waste of money. Forget the before and after pictures you see in the magazines (what else did they take, hmm?). If you are unwise enough to spend your hard-earned money on this garbage, then you deserve to get your just reward: green, expensive urine and an overworked liver and kidneys to filter this stuff out of your system. You need food, not pills! Take one good multivitamin/mineral pill per day and that's it. The most practical protein supplement is canned tuna (or chicken/turkey). Two cans will give enough complete protein for anyone, in addition to one's regular well-balanced diet. Drink plenty of water and eat 5 to 9 fruits and vegetables per day. Three good meals of around 60% complex carbohydrates, 20% protein, and 20% fat is a good guideline to follow. If you are trying to gain weight, throw in a few nutritious snacks as well.

There is no magic formula diet! Today's drug-using stars don't eat broiled skinless chicken salad, a carrot, and water, as the megahype magazine pictures show. Go to the fast food restaurants in Santa Monica, and you will see many of them. They use the right drugs; they don't have to pay the price. They don't earn their muscle and do not deserve respect.

Recovery is vital, and without it you will not gain, regardless of how hard you train or how well you eat. Forget six-day per week routines; they don't work for non-drug users. You should never train more than four days per week (twice per week per body part should be the rule). Two whole-body workouts per week are optimal if you are training hard (and naturally). Two one-hour workouts per week are all you need (and will want) to get bigger and stronger than ever, if you train hard, focusing on the basic exercises. Try this routine of seven exercises:

Bench Press 3 x 8, Thick bar Curls 3 x 8, Pulldowns 3 x 8, Overhead Press 3 x 8, Rowing 3 x 8, Tricep Press (or Pushdowns) 3 x 8, Squats 2 x 20 or Deadlifts 2 x 10 (alternate, once per week each on squats and deadlifts).

If you can do this routine in a little over one hour, twice per week, you won't want to train more. Remember, the best way to build muscle is the old-fashion way--earn it! Others will respect you more, and most important, you will respect yourself.

[Sean O]

Concentration curls were just something I was curious about. I do wrist curls because if my arms grow and my wrists don't, I'll look pretty weird. My wrists are kinda "unproportionate" right now anyways.

Oh and thanks for the article, but it wasn't necessary. I like to give my own ideas to see if I can be independant about **** like this, but I aint stubborn. I was doing your routine already, and I'm gonna keep doing it too. Also like I said before, I'm willing to put in time and effort to do this.

I aint pissed, but its like noone ever reads what I post....

[ROBERT]

Your wrists are bone. No amount of lifting will change them to muscle. This is equivelant to trying to make your knees bigger.

In case you are talking about your forearms instead of your wrists. If you do not use straps while lifting, utilizing only your own gripping power, your forearms will grow along with the rest of you.

Robert

[Cain]

WOW! Yoda, u really seem to know ur stuff :eek:

|Cain|

[Sean O]

In case you are talking about your forearms instead of your wrists. If you do not use straps while lifting, utilizing only your own gripping power, your forearms will grow along with the rest of you.

Sorry, you gotta make that a little more clear for me. If I DON'T use straps (those similar to weight gloves?) which use my gripping power, my forearms WILL grow with the rest of me? If thats true then I'm doing everything right so far.

[iolair]

Originally posted by Sean O


Sorry, you gotta make that a little more clear for me. If I DON'T use straps (those similar to weight gloves?) which use my gripping power, my forearms WILL grow with the rest of me? If thats true then I'm doing everything right so far.
That's right. The straps grip for you, doing the work that your hands and forearms should be doing.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by YODA
THERE ARE NO MAGIC TRAINING FORMULAS
.....


The world seems like a more balanced place today. Glad to see everybodies not just out to make a quick buck out of the next big thing training-wise.

Actually thinking about it this is the next big training regime!!!! WORKING BLOODY HARD!

So.......whose coming to my

"Training really hard and learning to eat right class"???? - classes £50 to register!!! :D

or are you going to "Bodycombat"?? ;)

The SheesH

[Sean O]

Just a little update... I've been using the routine exactly as you have told me to yoda, and its been working well, but after about a week (and using more weight) I found that my muscles didn't hurt after an intense workout (and yes it was intense). So I tried doing it with only one days rest, and in now I can stand doing that too. This mean I can work out every day or should I do something differently? (Keep in mind that I KNOW that I was doing the exercises correctly, and once again, I DID work myself hard each time).

[iolair]

Originally posted by Sean O
This mean I can work out every day or should I do something differently? No. It's unwise to work the same muscle groups two days in a row, even if they feel OK, they need more time than that to recover.

OK, so you can work out every day (it's usually wise to have a day off a week altogether though), but you need to work different muscle groups on different days.

For example
Day 1 - Upper Body, Day 2 - Lower Body & Abdominals

[YODA]

My original advice stands.

The presence or absence of pain is not a good indicator of the effectiveness of training. Train more & you'll progress slower.

[dredleviathan]

There still seems to be a lot of this "no pain, no gain" atttitude floating around in fitness circles (especially Martial Arts). To the most part especially for weights this is total BS. It's unavoidable and necessary in sparring as you need some additional pressure to develop.

The problem is you don't find out the damage you are doing until furtehr down the road. At 14 you feel pretty much invincible and recover quickly. At 30+ when your shoulders, knees, back or hips are shot you kinda wish you knew what you were doing at the time. This is probably why so many of us in the higher age brackets are looking at rehabiliative training like Pilates and Yoga for instance.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Sean O
I found that my muscles didn't hurt after an intense workout (and yes it was intense).

IMO there is a difference between hurt which is muscle strain and the ache of muscle fatigue.

[Freeform]

Yeah, theres, ouchy sore muscle pain you can get from big weights.

Then theres that happy drained fatigue you get from a long steady CV session.

Colin

[Sean O]

Yeah, I know the difference between muscle fatigue and muscle pain. I normally felt fatigue, but now theres nothing. To me the fatigue is a kind of pain, but not a bad one.

In any case, I'll stick to what I've been doing, but I guess I'll just add more weight.

One more thing though, how would you guys compare barbell curls to preacher curls? (Oh and as for the triceps exercise I needed, I just do bench dips now)

[YODA]

One more thing though, how would you guys compare barbell curls to preacher curls?

In the same light as I would compare squats to leg extentions. Or flat bench press to pec deck flyes.

Barbel curls - good (If you really MUST work the biceps on its own)

Preacher curls - namby pamby isolation toning pumping "feel the burn" shaping exercise :D

[Sean O]

Okay. I only asked because I think I might need a good isolation exercise for my bis. I mean, I'm already doing alot of execises that work my tris. Plus, although chin-ups work my bis, its an additional muscle, not the target. Plus when I do barbell curls, as after a few reps my elbows start swinging for some reason, I've tried to stop it but it happens eventually. I like preacher curls because apparently they work you harder that barbell curls (if I'm wrong about that tell me) plus theres no elbow swinging, just a smooth motion. Feel free to tell me anything wrong with what I said there.

[r4bid]

Sean if your elbows are swinging then you are probably either doing too many reps or too high a weight or are going too fast. You should be in full control of the weights the entire time or you will just end up hurting yourself.

[YODA]

Originally posted by r4bid
Sean if your elbows are swinging then you are probably either doing too many reps or too high a weight or are going too fast. You should be in full control of the weights the entire time or you will just end up hurting yourself.

Good advice r4bid :D

I work some standing barbell curls abouit once a month - other than that it's chins all the way. My biceps are fine.

[Cain]

My biceps are fine.

Fine? They are actually bulging out of your arms like Bruce Lee's in your pic :D

|Cain|

[Sean O]

Alright, now I know.