Battons now illegal in UK

[Pat OMalley]

:eek: My company has found out from the I.S.M.O. that as from the end of May 2004 Truncheons and Battons will now be considered offensive weapons.

It states "A Truncheon also known as a Batton either straight, with side handle or gravity opened will be deemed and offensive weapon under the Offensive weapons act"

Where does that leave sticks if an unknowledgable Customs officer does not know the difference between a stick and a Batton. Or are they to be considered one and the same.

Gets you thinking???

Pat O'Malley

[JohnnyX]

:eek: My company has found out from the I.S.M.O. that as from the end of May 2004 Truncheons and Battons will now be considered offensive weapons.

It states "A Truncheon also known as a Batton either straight, with side handle or gravity opened will be deemed and offensive weapon under the Offensive weapons act"

Where does that leave sticks if an unknowledgable Customs officer does not know the difference between a stick and a Batton. Or are they to be considered one and the same.

Gets you thinking???

Pat O'Malley

I think that they should be able to spot the sticks. Don't you? :eek:

Cheers. :)

[Mike Flanagan]

I'm slightly confused. 'Truncheon' and 'batton' are both words used to describe what are basically straight sticks but with the connotation of being weapons, yes? Doesn't this by definition make them offensive weapons.

And sticks, if you carry one with the intent of using it as a weapon is again by default an offensive weapon.

If I carry a big stick around the streets where I live I'm liable to be arrested. How will this new law make any difference?

Confused,

Mike

[Speed]

Hand over all your weapons to your government now!

[SoKKlab]

Hand over all your weapons to your government now!

Yes, Next stop:

'Government bans Kitchen Implements, report to the Vegetable Chopping Station everytime you want to do something dangerous like peel a carrot, oh and by the way, we are watching you and we know where you live..'

[Freeform]

It states "A Truncheon also known as a Batton either straight, with side handle or gravity opened will be deemed and offensive weapon under the Offensive weapons act"

Where does that leave sticks if an unknowledgable Customs officer does not know the difference between a stick and a Batton. Or are they to be considered one and the same.

Gets you thinking???

Pat O'Malley

Damn! I'm off to the garden to burn my tonfa's! :eek:

The wording seems to imply tonfa style stick or the extendable baton, but as you say an unknowledgable official could really ruin your day.

Col

[JohnnyX]

Why would anybody be walking the street with such equipment on show, if it wasn't for the worse?

Cheers. :)

[Anth]

Why would anybody be walking the street with such equipment on show, if it wasn't for the worse?

Cheers. :)
dunno, but i definately got a few strange looks from the local constabulary when i went to training with the bo staff across the handlebars of my push-bike :D

[Pat OMalley]

Before you know it they will ban rubber training knives.
Yes you are right the wording does mean side handles batton (tonfa) and more than likely the extentable truncheons but I had a shipment of Kerambits last month delayed and about to be lost for all time by customs because they thought they where Push Daggers.

After a week of negotiations and pointing them to the right webs sites to see the difference between push daggers and Kerambits I finally got them in.

So confusion at Customs can make things go a little silly.

I am expecting a large shipment of sticks in from the Philippines in the next week or so, so I will let you all know the outcome of that.

I may be lucky :Angel: I am not :cry: we will see :rolleyes:

Speak to you all soon


Pat

[JohnnyX]

Before you know it they will ban rubber training knives.
Yes you are right the wording does mean side handles batton (tonfa) and more than likely the extentable truncheons but I had a shipment of Kerambits last month delayed and about to be lost for all time by customs because they thought they where Push Daggers.

After a week of negotiations and pointing them to the right webs sites to see the difference between push daggers and Kerambits I finally got them in.

So confusion at Customs can make things go a little silly.

I am expecting a large shipment of sticks in from the Philippines in the next week or so, so I will let you all know the outcome of that.

I may be lucky :Angel: I am not :cry: we will see :rolleyes:

Speak to you all soon

Pat

Sounds like you need to suggest to Customs that they need a Weapons Expert to advise them.

I wonder who that could be? :D

Cheers. :)

[Pat OMalley]

:D Just got news from my shippers that the sticks have made it through Customs just fine, within 1/2 hour to be exact. so maybe someone knows what they are looking at now.

Phew :o

As for the Job at Customs I nominate JohnnyX

[Twimyo Jirugi]

Yeah, pass off No'Dachis and Naginatas as kitchen utensils :D

[YODA]

I have some expensive blades coming in from the Philippines soon.

*Fingers & toes crossed!

[Shaolin Dragon]

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200304/cmstand/deleg2/st040420/40420s01.htm

Heavy going, but may help throw some light on the subject (or confuse it!).

As I understand it:

currently, the offensive weapons act makes it illegal to carry certain items, which could be used as weapons, without good cause. There is also a specific list of weapons which it is illegal to manufacture, import or sell in this country.

Swords are not prohibited weapons, provided they are not also another category of prohibited weapon (e.g. sword canes, flick-knives), so you can import them and own them, but you cannot carry them around with you in public.

This new legislation plans to move batons and stealth knives, which can already be illegal under the first category, into the second category to reduce the chance of criminals obtaining such items. The difficulty is that these categories relate to two different Acts, and the vagueness of the descriptions used.

So far as I can tell, the legislation has not yet been passed but it is currently under consideration.

[Freeform]

Its this 'carrying around in public' bit that gets me. How are you supposed to get them to training wih=thout out technically breaking the law?

[shootodog]

I have some expensive blades coming in from the Philippines soon.

*Fingers & toes crossed!

expensive? from here? really? custom jobs i suppose (only way it could be expensive).

[Mike Flanagan]

Its this 'carrying around in public' bit that gets me. How are you supposed to get them to training wih=thout out technically breaking the law?

In a carrying case or something similar, essentially (as I understand it) you need to be NOT able to draw out your weapons for immediate use. So in a bag in the boot of your car should be fine.

Mike

[Pat OMalley]

:confused: I checked out the ISMO web site and it seems that the cut off date for this new addition to the ledgislation was the end of MAY, so it has now become a pert of the ledgislation since the first of June and is listed as an addition of the Gov site as part of this ledgislation.

I assume they would not list it if were not in force, But I am just a humble little old stick fighter so I could be wrong. :confused:

[Gravity]

Blame it all on terrorists. Governments almost everywhere are becoming increasingly paranoid because of terrorists and terror threats.

The next thing we know, umbrellas will be considered illegal because it can be used as an offensive weapon. So, what's next?

[Gryphon Hall]

How about walking sticks or canes?

Do you think someday one has to have some sort of certification that one is actually disabled to bring canes around in public?

[Pat OMalley]

Its this 'carrying around in public' bit that gets me. How are you supposed to get them to training wih=thout out technically breaking the law?

:woo: As long as you have a reason for carrying your weapons in a safe manner e.g. going to and from training, then you can not be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon.

:cool: Anywho, good news is that the Home Office (UK) has contacted all of the martial arts magazines to ensure them that Tonfa's and sticks do not come under the Offensive Weapons act, the wording they admited has caused confusion but is soley mean for telescopic batons and the side handled batons our police use. :)

But of course if you carry a can of hair spray or a comb with the intent of using it as a weapon then you will be arrested for carrying and concealing an offensive weapon.

The question I have is, If you can be arrested for concealing an offensive weapon does that mean in the eyes of the Law do you have to carry your swords unsheaved and on show to the public to and from training even though it may scare passers by????


Pat O'Malley :confused:

[Louie]

[QUOTE=Pat OMalley]:woo: As long as you have a reason for carrying your weapons in a safe manner e.g. going to and from training, then you can not be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon.

With the good weather arriving (some time soon), I was planning to do a lot more outdoor training.... anyone know the law's position on stick/knife training in UK public parks?
Although we've had some funny looks from joe public while practicing Singlestick, no-one has informed the police.... yet! :Angel:

Louie

[Scotty Dog]

far as I know it's down to the officer,

I've never had a problem training Stick in the park, however I've been asked to "move on" once when we were training pad work ?????

[YODA]

Only been aproached by the Police once when stickfighting outdoors.

PC Plod: "Good afternoon lads"

ME: "Good afternoon officer"

PC Plod: "We've had a complaint about some people fighting out here"

ME: "We're not fighting just training"

PC Plod: "You lot are crazy. Carry on."

That was that :D

[Freeform]

PC Plod: "You lot are crazy. Carry on."


That makes it official! :D

Makes you wonder why certain types of training are generally accepted in public, hmm, new thread me thinks!