Mike Tyson

[Andy Murray]

I remember watching Tysons meteoric rise to success and feeling that I was watching the birth of a new Ali or Sugar Ray....

Softly spoken, with a hint of a lisp, he explained his study of the old greats like Jack Dempsey. He spoke of his love and respect for his mentor Cus.

Cus, gone. Givens takes a chunk, Don King takes a chunk. Did Tyson realise what was going on? Does he know what is going on now.

I watched the fight when he bit Holyfield. I watched it several times. in my opinion Holyfield repeatedly headbutted Tyson. The referee did nothing. I would have bitten him myself.

Instead of a rags to riches champion, a peoples hero like Ali. We have a thug, a rapist, a misfit.

He is seen to bring shame to the one thing that lifted him from the gutter.

I don't know that many people will hold with this point of view. I feel sad that Tyson lost the path to his place in the history books as one of the greats!

[hongkongfuey]

I think Tyson still is one of the greats, if you look at his performances in the ring. His boxing skill is incredible (particularly at avoiding blows), and it requires the video's slow motion facilities to truly appreciate it sometimes. Perhaps his training in Wing Chun has something to do with this ability.

[Cuddles]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with some the comments about Mr Tyson. Although there is no denying his fight record I do not feel that he is one of the "great" boxers of our time, or should be considered for title. His style is that of the street, he is a slugger, a brawler and the power of his punches has carried him on occasion rather than his ability as a fighter ( I know, to some, that may sound like an oxymoron but boxing is not all about the power of your punch ).

Admittedly the politics behind Tyson may well have contributed to his fall from grace I don't feel they can fully explain his actions. Also his criminal activity I think reveals more about the man, a side to him I detest. As for the Holyfield fight, even if Tyson was butted (a common occurrence in boxing) it does not give him the right to rip a piece of flesh from an opponent with his teeth.

I know that in today's media intensive world every action of a sports personality can and is scrutinised that there are few saints left and the sporting legends of the past were not whiter than white, but surely we can not venerate this man?

I say an interview with a woman when Tyson came to fight in Glasgow and she was singing his praises as the worlds greatest boxer (better that Ali), the interviewer asked her if she was aware of the fact that he was a convicted rapist. That doesn't matter she replied, its Tyson. At that point I lost a little more hope for the human race.

Cuddles

[Freeform]

I've got to agree with cuddles, in the ring, boxing is a sport (hell, even outside the rin its meant to be the 'noble art' of self defence) Tyson is a thug, and I was disgusted to find out that his fight with Lewis is to go ahead.

[Andy Murray]

The beauty of the open forum is that we all get the opportunity to express our views. If we all thought the same, there would be no point in having a forum. I like to read about other peoples opinions, especially when they differ from my own, as I go back and look at the issue from another angle. Empty Cup and all that.


Opinions generally are strongest on either side of a controversy.

As regards 'Tyson' see if you can dig out old footage of him pre-Robin Givens. Even better, watch the original Holyfield match again a little more carefully.

[Andy Murray]

I just figured out why we have no Boxers posting on this site!

GUYS.............YOU HAVE TO TAKE YOUR GLOVES OFF TO TYPE!

[Freeform]

LOL

[Andy Murray]

How would a young Tyson have emerged after a fight with Ali?

Let's say Ali fought Tyson instead of Foreman in the old 'Rope a Dope' 'Rumble in the Jungle' thing.

Please don't post unless you have watched these fighters, and therefor have an informed opinion!

[dragon_duplicat]

I totally agree with Cuddles. There aint no way man!

[Silver_no2]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
How would a young Tyson have emerged after a fight with Ali?I don't think that Tyson would have taken Ali. Ali's movement was too good for him to be taken by the Tyson of today. Possibly the pre-prison Tyson but even that would have been a close run thing. Ali was an amazing technical boxer and Lewis has proved that Tyson cannot live with an excellent technical boxer.

Regardless of Tyson's actions outside the ring it is impossible to say that he is not a great fighter. remember, there are lots of different types of boxer - Lewis is a technical boxer, Nigel Benn was a gutsy boxer and Tyson was a great scrapper. All great boxers, all different styles.

With regards to him biting Holyfield's ear - there is no excuse. He was being butted again - as he had in the first match, there is no doubt about that, but, to coin a term that we used on the rugby pitch, you have to play the ref. You use it to fuel your punches and your ability to keep going when everything hurts.

Have to disagree with Cuddles, FreeForm and Dragon_Duplicat - not because "it's Tyson" as the woman in Glasgow said - but because he served his time. I'm not suggesting forgive and forget but the whole basis of our judicial system, and that of the US, is that when you have taken your punishment/served your time you are accepted back into society. It should be noted that throughout his time in prison Tyson maintained his innocence - even when he was told that if he admitted to it he would get out of prison quicker. I don't venerate this man, Cuddles, but I don't allow my disgust at his actions outside the ring to cloud my judgement of his abilities inside the ring.

[Freeform]

Silver I posted that a while back but I think I was refering to the 'publicity stunt' that was the Tyson/Lewis press conference as my source of disgust. I agree that the man had served his time, I'm also one of the people who isn't 100% convinced that he did the crime.

Opening a can of worms.

Col

[dragon_duplicat]

huh? i didn't quite hear that? yes? oh tyson has my ears. oops. i guess i should have posted this in the joke section. not!

[Andy Murray]

Tyson was like the Rocky story gone wrong.

I still have a lot of the original fights on VHS. I have to disagree with those who say he lacked boxing skills and relied solely on power.
Knockouts are about 'where' you hit the opponent rather than how hard! Timing is everything, and that's boxing!
Don't judge Tyson unless you have seen the Tyson coached by Cus d'Amato. Different man entirely

[wayofthedragon]

Yes Mike Tyson has been through a lot of ups and downs, and ups and downs agian in his life. Still, I think he is a good fighter, a great fighter even, though his character doesn't show the same we really don't know the man inside like that to say. We only see what he appears to be. Which is a bad picture. Still, I say his fighting skills are up with the greats, though he may not be number one....He is up there I think.

[Chazz]

Mike wins again. For a person i dont like, i must say that he sounds like the mike of old, and an old mike. I like his new Tat.

[Fergie Boy]

I don' think Tyson is as great as his hype madeout. When he made his name it was off of beating all the big names who were then past their prime. But Tyson doesn't have the reach to be simply labelled a slugger, he used to have great movement and ability to get inside.

[Chazz]

I dont like Mike but i do have to say that he is ok, Even since he was in jail he isnt half the boxer he was. I always loved to watch him fight just so i could hope that he would get beat. The thing is that he always got put against people that you knew he would beat. Then he started to bite people. All down hill from there!

[THEGREAT1]

tyson pre buster douglas was the best boxer there's ever been.

his hand speed was immense, his movement and ability to cut off the ring was superb.

and although everyone thinks his power was what carried him through (and admittedly he is one of if not the heaviest hitter in the sport) ....his technique when throwing punches was incredible, if he lands a heymaker there's no coming back because he knows how to use his body and the opponents momentum against him nad it is very hard to stop that heymaker if tyson gets inside your guard.

(just watch the final punch of golota vs tyson, proves he still has some of that talent even now).

on a side note...if ali does rope a dope to tyson he loses cos tyson punching ability to great.

if he dances ...it's a good fight to watch :P

stil lthink tyson at his peak vs ali at peak = tyson victory.

[WhiteWizard]

I've got to disagree Ali at his prime would still have taken Tyson his movement would have been too much for him. although i do think Tyson was a great fighter it is a shame the way things have turned out for him he could have been the dominant force in the divsion for his generation but it didn't quite happen therefore discussions like this will carry on for years to come.

[Sonshu]

Tyson has the power - Ali was not a hard hitter

Both in great shape

Ali was a good psycher of his opponents many lost the fight before they got in the ring - This Tyson was great at as well.

Boxing has moved on and the fitness and training methods have improved since Ali's time. I just think Tyson was too powerful, once Tyson has injured someone he goes in for the kill.

His fight record is excellent and he moved well.

SONSHU

[binski20]

We can talk about the what if's Tyson fought this guy, or what if he fought that guy forever. They will remain that though, what if's. When Tyson was young, and made his rampage up the ranks, he was talented. No one can deny that he had some talent. No matter what era you fight in you don't become the champ, with an undefeated record without having some talent. Mike Tyson will always be known as a great for that, for rising up and taking the title the way he did. One has to wonder, what kind of Mike Tyson we would have today had Cus been around for a little longer. I always felt that Tyson was an unfinished work by Cus.
I do not defend the various atrocities that Tyson has commited. But I do defend his stake in boxing history.

[Knight_Errant]

An interesting thing about Tyson's training is Cus d'amato. He made the guy work on slipping, ducking, blocking and generally defending for a whole year on all sorts of equipment before he let him throw any punches. Then he trained him using tape recordings of combinations and a dummy made of mattresses shaped like a man. It's still sensible to be scared of Tyson...

[KickChick]

It seems Mike Tyson isn't done making an ass of himself yet: From Reuters (http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=3069043) ... Mike Tyson: "I'm a ni**er. I'm a big strong ni**er that knocks out people and rapes people and rips off people and bullies people"
Mike needs some better P.R. people... and soon.

[Adam]

I thought all that smack he talks WAS his PR. It certainly gives him a more intimidating reputation for him to use in the ring.

[Knight_Errant]

Lennox Lewis still kicked his sorry mysogynistic ass. :D

[Jay]

Roy Jones JR vs Tyson .... Nov 8th ... Africa !!

Oh man - that is gonna be one cool fight :D

Jay

[YODA]

Yep - it'll be a corker and could develop in several ways.

Here's one scenario that springs to mind...

RJJ survives the innevitable 2 round onslought the get's into the groove and dances around Tyson, scoring at will. By round 6 Tyson is so frustrated that he does something stupid and gets disqualified.

[Jay]

Yeah .. but I though RJJ would hit and move when he fought Ruiz, apparently it was a bit of a slugfest :D Tyson is a different animal though - I reckon Jones will use his speed to keep out of the way and win on points.

Jay

[Bon]

I wouldn't wanna take a hit from Tyson :D

[YODA]

I think RJJ has thought of that one and has a plan :-)

"Best defence - no be there" Mr Miyagi :D

[Nimrook]

What do you all think about Tysons supposed plans of entering UFC competitions? I know he has been saying it for years, think he might actually do it?

Personally I think he'll destoy some of the weaker opponents, mainly through intimidation via his reknowned reputation, but as soon as he takes on someone who isn't a boxing fan, he will be done for. that is, of course, assuming he gets up enough courage to play with some real warriors.

But oh wait! Biting isn't allowed there either!!!!

[AikiSamurai]

Originally posted by Nimrook
What do you all think about Tysons supposed plans of entering UFC competitions? I know he has been saying it for years, think he might actually do it?



I think Tyson would do good in the UFC if he picks up a grappling art to compliment his boxing abilities. Plus he would bring in a lot of money for UFC or Pride.

[Andrew Green]

I can't see him doing it. The money isn't there, and if it was I think the boxing industry would pay him not to.

What's in it for him? If he goes in and gets his butt kicked it could be a big blow to the boxing industry.

[Sonshu]

I dont think he has the patience of having to do it - granted I and none of us know him but I think he would lose against a well rounded fighter.

Or bite em - still he was great!

[YODA]

Firstly he's get creamed without a LOT of clinch & groundfighting experience. He's have a short opportunity to use his hands then that would be it.

Secondly I very much doubt that there's enough money in it for the likes of Tyson.

I hope he does it though :D

[pgm316]

I don't think he'd have the patence to learn the Katas! :D

Would be great to see him in UFC, and get whooped by a much smaller Gracie style fighter ;)

But seriously if he's trained from a younger age he's have been an awsome NHB fighter but now he'd only embarass boxing even more.

In a fight against Ali, I think Ali would really struggle against a young Tyson! But who knows, Ali had the talent to compensate....?

[SoKKlab]

Maybe he could fight Tank Abbott, they have alot in common.

[AikiSamurai]

Originally posted by SoKKlab
Maybe he could fight Tank Abbott, they have alot in common.

I don't mind watching that fight.

[Andrew Green]

LOL

Tank by Armbar :D

[Nimrook]

I don't think I could call that one. It would be pretty embarrassing for Tyson to be caught up against the fence with a knee in his face, like what Tank did to Paul Varelans.

[FISH]

True he was a great boxer/slugger which is rare but does someone who grew up mugging/beating up old ladies deserve respect/adoration ? I rank him as one of the top fighters of all time but he threw that fight with Buster "the chump" Douglas and is an all around scumbag:mad: :woo:

[KenpoDavid]

he didn;t throw that fight, he was doped up on Lithium by Robin Givens and her mother, and an emotional wreck becasue she tld him she wanted a divorce hours before the fight. He was sobbing on his trainer's shoulder 10 minuted before he went in the ring.

It was also part of a long tradition of champs goiong to forign countries and losig their title.

Tyson is definately one of the tragedies of modern sports.

[Andy Murray]

I'd like to point at that someone with the drive/ability to climb to the top ranks of Professional boxing could probably do just about any combat sport, placed in the right environment.

A young Tyson with some Thai Boxing and BJJ experience would be tearing new poopshoots for a lot of ufc fairies.

It's about attitude.

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
poopshoots for a lot of ufc fairies.

Poopshoots-is that a technical NHB term?

[johndoch]

Tyson could have won the Buster Douglas fight if the ref had not delayed the count when Douglas was down. If I remember Douglas was down for about 15 seconds.

[saikyou]

he's really good. remember his big knock-outs? he is the youngest undisputed champ. he really has a good punching power and nice defensive moves.

[Testosterone]

Yes.

[Infrazael]

I think Tyson still is one of the greats, if you look at his performances in the ring. His boxing skill is incredible (particularly at avoiding blows), and it requires the video's slow motion facilities to truly appreciate it sometimes. Perhaps his training in Wing Chun has something to do with this ability.

Tyson trained in Wing Chun? WTF?!?!? :eek: :confused:

[Faminedynasty]

he's really good. remember his big knock-outs? he is the youngest undisputed champ. he really has a good punching power and nice defensive moves.
Was really good*, Was the youngest undisputed champ*, had good punching power and nice defensive moves*.

[wild_pitch]

hello three year old thread, good to see you back from the grave!

try not to mess the place up while you are visiting.

enjoy the land of the land of the living.

[mai tai]

you know why the baseball hall of fame is so great...its hard to get into

i wish boxing was the same

pros for mike.

his skill early on.
1. his power...i am sick of everyone saying he is just a brawler....it takes SKILL and practice to hit hard...power is no less a skill than speed, defense, ring gerneralmanship..etc
2. this guy was fast...ever watch him work the mitts...his shots are electric



he captured the public eye.

1. early on he was the new young gun, sweet voice respect for his elders and the game, a good old american rags to riches story. ( and for the media it helps to be american)...a getto boy made good.

and in the ring he was a beast...a pitbull on a lease

2. later he was a pitbull off the lease.....a menice to society

3.later still a carnival act...

ether way he capured the public eye





the cons
1. he dominated the ring for to short a peroid of time....only about 4 years
2. hebeat up some has beens in a week division, lost to good guys
3. pissed away his talent
take him and lennox lewis....early on tyson was the better fighter...but he never got better.....lennox got better....and in the end he ended up a much better fighter



why is lennox not talked about as the alltime great that he is

1. hes british
2. hes mild mannered and not a self promoter
3 he has the personality of a wet noodle

[Faminedynasty]

Bill James is quite the baseball expert for those of you who don't know. He rates the greatest players of all time in two categories: peak value and career value. I would rate iron Mike as one of the best peak value fighters of all time, who at his best would have knocked Lennox Lewis through the ropes. In career value though, Mike falls far from the top, obviously.

[Bruce Irving]

i dont think lenox is a popular as tyson for 1 age of becoming the champ and 2 number of KO's. almost every fight tyson was in ended in a knock out. i just wish he never went to jail i think that messed with his head alot along with cus.

[mai tai]

i dont think lenox is a popular as tyson for 1 age of becoming the champ and 2 number of KO's. almost every fight tyson was in ended in a knock out. i just wish he never went to jail i think that messed with his head alot along with cus.


without looking it up i think lenox had about 40 fights and 30 kos

mike had 50 fights about 40 kos.

75% vs 80%

not real staggering.

i also think mike showed sighns of decline before prison....loss to buster...2 wars with razor rud****

[addiwei]

no, the real reason why Lenox wasn't as popular as Mike Tyson is because Lewis is a boring fighter, not a tremendous finisher, tall, so he naturally had advantages and outside the ring, had no personality. but why was Lenox champion then?...because he had good reach, and the type of boxer he is, is similar to a fine wine. Get's better with age, as he can fight on the outside and just jab all day and try to guess when the other person goes down...

Tyson was an explosive fighter, and relied on slipping to/ fighting inside (since he has relatively short reach), in his prime he took the crowd by storm with his aggressiveness, and on the physical aspect- almost literally built like a TANK. he dropped Bombs on his opponents, and when he smelled blood, he was a tremendous finisher....think shark and an injured sea lion..

Now...in your opinion, which one is more fun to watch?

[kenpo123]

Lennox Lewis still kicked his sorry mysogynistic ass. :D
I think lennox won cause they had tyson on his nice pills to keep him normal.. cause after the fight he was almost kissing lewis and telling him how beautifull person he was and wiping the sweat off his face.. im surprised he didnt drop to his knees.. take him off his nice pills.. and he just eat his face like the movie the silience of the lambs...

tyson was super fast.. great skill.... great power.. especially his left hook.. when his trainer died.. that was teh beginning of his downfall.. i dont think much of him now.. but will always respect the boxer/sluger/thug what ever he was in his prime..