Life

[inanimate]

[these are my views]

People seem to need something to believe in. Whatever it be, they don't want to see life as...pointless. Step back from it all, see life for what it is, and just think to yourself, what possible reason could we have to exist? Life has no meaning. There's no purpose, there's no point to life. It's something I for one have come to accept, and it makes me feel at ease somehow.

When life gets too much, just look up at the endless night sky. At the end of it all, we die. That's it.

[JohnnyX]

Life.

Life's a bitch and then you die. :D

[supervole]

I personaly believe that there will be somesort of point to our existence, aint got a clue what it is, don't think I ever will, unsure if anyone will actually be able to work it out. I'm sure all the questions will be answered when we die, whether theres nothing, God gives us a pat on the back and says welcome to heaven or become reincarnated as an ant. Lets just wait and see.
Mev.

[killbill]

heh, i know what the meaning of life is.

[Capt Ann]

I would not be able to face another day if I didn't know as surely as I know my own name that God is in control of the universe, and He is working things towards a definite purpose. Therefore, life has meaning, and the things that happen to me/around me have reason, purpose, and even beauty.

[Mo Lung]

I would not be able to face another day if I didn't know as surely as I know my own name that God is in control of the universe, and He is working things towards a definite purpose. Therefore, life has meaning, and the things that happen to me/around me have reason, purpose, and even beauty.
Hmm. Trouble is, you don't actually know that. You believe it because that's what makes the universe work for you, which is fair enough. But you can't know something exists without evidence. That's why belief systems of all kinds are so successful. There is no proof or evidence of any higher power or purpose and most people need something to believe in.

JohnnyX - I always thought the expression was, "Life's a bitch, then you marry one." :eek: Don't tell Mrs Mo Lung that I said that. ;)

As for the point of it all, I think the whole point is different for different people.

Or, to quote Monkey, "What's the point of it all?... And if there is no point to it all, then what's the point of that!?" :D

[aikiMac]

King Solomon wondered about the purpose to life too, and wrote a short piece about it. His conclusion was that the purpose of life was communion with God. The eleven surviving apostles of Jesus wondered about the purpose of life too. But then they saw and touched the Jesus who was dead but was now alive (tangible evidence), and knew that Solomon was right. The evidence was clear to them: the purpose of life is communion with God.

[Xio]

As seeing God in control of the universe and everything, I don't. I see me in control of my own universe because i have total evidence for it too. I don't believe really in any God but i do respect all of them. I don't think that I'm being controlled by a God, I think I'm being controlled by me. It works perfectly.

[JohnnyX]

JohnnyX - I always thought the expression was, "Life's a bitch, then you marry one." :eek:

You might well be right there. :D

[neryo_tkd]

Concerning God and whether or not He exists...aren't we supposed to believe without seeing and having evidence? Isn't exactly that what our faith is about?

I don't think that our life is meaningless and I don't think that we should have that kind of an approach. I am of the opinion that we are here for a reason. I guess we all have met somebody at a certain point of time at a certain place who helped us accomplish something in our life or get through something in our life easier? I have. I guess that's one of the purposes that those people have in their life. It's the same with all of us. For example, at my previous working place the situation was a disaster. When I started working I was given so much work and responsibility and I coped with it all. I made a difference, improved the situation, taught people so many things they were supposed to know but didn't and after a while it was a completely different situation. I didn't continue working there, I was brought in just to fix the damage. So it might be one of my purposes.

To think of our life as meaningless....definitely the wrong attitude....that's something only a person who doesn't believe in anything in life could say.

[Xio]

Yes i agree. I think everyone has some "purpose", you could call it. Really i think they have a choice. Life is one big choice, a limitless choice with infinite possibilities. Everyone's road of life is different and only they can make it and no one can follow.

[tekkengod]

I would not be able to face another day if I didn't know as surely as I know my own name that God is in control of the universe, and He is working things towards a definite purpose. Therefore, life has meaning, and the things that happen to me/around me have reason, purpose, and even beauty.

hmmm....
the strange thing is....you don't know
sad thing is....you really think you do
funny thing is.....that shows how weak you are

do you really mean that? surely you just lack purpose or a goal?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

not a sign of weakness. weakness would involve being a sad wee man who lies on internet forums about his prowess at a VIDEO GAME, of all things. thats pretty sad.

Religion is based on faith. if you go looking for proof, the more you look the further away from the point you are straying. I'm not religious but I feel I have a good grasp on how it works. and while I am not big on it I know a lot of people who are. being in kickboxing you see a lot of religious people, because its a hard thing to do on your own. whereas if you have god on your side it becomes a lot easier. Look back on history and you'll find that many of the most powerful troops were also the most religious.

People either believe or they don't, I don't, I have friends who do (including my coach- our gym is in a catholic church) and it really is not a problem until people make it one. For me I didn't need god when I was going through a rough patch so I don't need him now.

[tekkengod]

not a sign of weakness.

For me I didn't need god when I was going through a rough patch so I don't need him now.

I don't see how the rest of what you said was relevent, but good attempt [rest removed -- TOS]

IS a sign of weakness, and you prove it in that sentence below, you didn't need him when things got rough, and neither would anyone who had sufficent will power and self-esteem, you had enough mental stability to stand on your own unaided, crutch free in a little place i like to call reality. i'm not gonna delve into the whole "god" debate here, but i will argue the motives of belief.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

I got lucky. And I have no doubt that if I was religious it would not have been as tough for me as it was. but im a scientific person and while I do have "faith" it is only in people.

[tekkengod]

while I do have "faith" it is only in people.

People will fail you as often as anything else, your faith should be in your abilities.

[aikiMac]

Ikken owns Tekken. ;)

Oh, and Tekken dude -- the Capt is not weak. Let's be cool now, okay? Here's a thought for you to ponder: When my parents were born the best and brightest scientists believed and taught that the universe was eternal. It had no beginning point. In the 1940's scientists started to seriously doubt that belief. In the 1960's they started to get hard evidence suggesting the belief was factually false. In 1978 two men received the Nobel Prize for proving that the belief was false. And now today, the best and brightest scientists will call you crazy for believing what they believed a few decades ago, because today we "know" that the universe has a beginning fixed in time.

Well golly gee, good ol' Moses wrote many thousands of years ago that which we didn't conclusively figure out scientifically until the 1970s: "In the beginning ..." If Moses got that right, maybe he got some other things right, and maybe in a few more decades the best and brightest scientists will catch up with him. We allow for that possibility. Have a talk with Antony Flew before you call Ann weak, okay?

[theultimateone]

TekkenGod - please enlighten me as to how you know, he doesn't know that god exists :rolleyes: Can you prove it? :) Because in your reality, you havn't experienced what this man or woman has experienced, do not insult his beliefs with a statement of his weakness. You also give the normal response of a non-beliver, of religion as a crutch. I would like to hear a brief explanation as to why you seem to draw this conclusion. Please don't take this as an attack, because it's not meant to be. I just tend to disagree with you on almost every post you make :)

[Ikken Hisatsu]

the difference being though, that scientists are always looking for more. if they get something wrong and find out "hey guys- this isnt right" they go out and figure out what the REAL truth is. or as close as they can get. whereas the church will simply try and say "yeah thats what we meant" or simply jam their fingers in their ears.

[tekkengod]

Here's a thought for you to ponder: When my parents were born the best and brightest scientists believed and taught that the universe was eternal. It had no beginning point. In the 1940's scientists started to seriously doubt that belief. In the 1960's they started to get hard evidence suggesting the belief was factually false. In 1978 two men received the Nobel Prize for proving that the belief was false. And now today, the best and brightest scientists will call you crazy for believing what they believed a few decades ago, because today we "know" that the universe has a beginning fixed in time.

Hence an example of the beauty of advancing knowladge. I don't really see your point with the moses analogy? honestly :confused:

I think my old sig sums it up best "as knowladge advances, god retreats" but now i think its the bible retreating, not the idea of god directly.
anyway, on point.
I think i've explained this a billion times, how religious belief {not just christianity, i don't discriminate, i hate ALL religion} is by its very design made to serve and empower the weak. its late, don't make me do it again! :cry:

[Fish Of Doom]

[these are my views]
People seem to need something to believe in. Whatever it be, they don't want to see life as...pointless. Step back from it all, see life for what it is, and just think to yourself, what possible reason could we have to exist? Life has no meaning. There's no purpose, there's no point to life. It's something I for one have come to accept, and it makes me feel at ease somehow.

When life gets too much, just look up at the endless night sky. At the end of it all, we die. That's it.

exactly. you and i seem to think the same thing, and gazing at the night sky always made me feel at ease, contemplating the void, the nothingness, the "empty", for lack of a better term, and yet understanding that what i'm looking at is everything, but only a fraction of everything.

i always feel calm looking the universe in the eye, i take great pleasure in picturing the universe in all it's glory, from the most diminutive atom, every single diminutive atom, to the great all, the vast expanse that is outer space, the difference between that and the planet we live in, the quantity of planet earths that could fit inside only one small star, then realizing that one small star is hundreds of times bigger that the sun.

when you feel troubled, just pick a particularly starry night and gaze away, when you understand what is out there, you understand that you don't, and you never will, and you begin to be at peace with yourself, realizing how trivial we are, how utterly unimportant, you will begin to question the reason for life for existence itself, you decide that language has no reason for being, that logic can be illogical, that life is pointless, and lots of other things that can be understood just by sitting down and using that thing called a head you have on your neck, even though you realize there's no point in using it, it serves no apparent purpose, except to keep a pointless uninportant life.

since there's no point and no importance to it, you just reach the conclusion that you should just play along and see how it goes.

as for my views on life itself, one of many possible theories i have contemplated is that we are all already dead, think about it, they say that when someone dies their life flashes before their eyes don't they?, do you remember more than a couple things about the moment you were born?, about when you were 1 or 2 years old?, do you remember a lot just from last week?
think about that a couple days from that and you'll see what i mean
also there is no such thing as the present, it does not exist, there is only past and future, the so called "present" is actually the past, think about it, this works especially well when moving fast, try to freeze a single moment of the present, done?, how long ago did you "freeze" the present, a couple seconds? a minute?, then it's not the present, it's the past.
same goes for the future, freeze a couple instants in the future, you can't, the future is already the past, no present, only past and future.

weird huh?

[tekkengod]

the difference being though, that scientists are always looking for more. if they get something wrong and find out "hey guys- this isnt right" they go out and figure out what the REAL truth is. or as close as they can get. whereas the church will simply try and say "yeah thats what we meant" or simply jam their fingers in their ears.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

we agree on that entierly! thats one of my usual points.

[tekkengod]

1. TekkenGod - please enlighten me as to how you know, he doesn't know that god exists

2. You also give the normal response of a non-beliver, of religion as a crutch. I would like to hear a brief explanation as to why you seem to draw this conclusion.

1. Because its immune to logic by design, so you can't say you KNOW theres a god, and for the time being i can't say 100% I KNOW that there is no god, i can say what i BELIEVE 100% with out a shadow of a doubt to be true, and i can back it up with facts and logical conclusions, now you can do the same, and say that you believe that there is god, but it will be backed up by a LACK of knowladge NOT a fact.

2. Thats because religion IS a crutch, you'd have me believe it isn't? tell me then, why did man invent religion? "Religion is mans way of explaining that which he cannot understand" - Rufus Shinra. nothing more. by its very design it was created to serve and empower the weak.

[aikiMac]

Hence an example of the beauty of advancing knowladge. I don't really see your point with the moses analogy? honestly :confused:
The essential point of the Big Bang theory is that the universe is not eternal. It has a beginning that is fixed in time. Well, hop in Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine and travel to when your grandparents were young, and you'll discover that this essential point was denied by scientists. Today, however, this essential point is totally believed.

The opening words of the Bible are: "In the beginning ..."
That is exactly the essential point of the Big Bang theory, and it was written down and taught thousands of years ago. So, maybe as science advances it confirms the religion that Capt Ann belives. The span from 1938 ("the universe is eternal") to 1978 ("the universe has a beginning point fixed in time") suggests this might be so.

That's why Ikken owned you a few posts up. ;)

[tekkengod]

The essential point of the Big Bang theory is that the universe is not eternal. It has a beginning that is fixed in time. Well, hop in Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine and travel to when your grandparents were young, and you'll discover that this essential point was denied by scientists. Today, however, this essential point is totally believed.

So you're saying that because the bible makes referance to "a beginning" that we're late on our discovery? that makes sense, but you have to understand the differance in conveyance {sp?} in the bible, it was simply someones word, now its backed up with "hard evidence" as you said. :)

[aikiMac]

Yep.

[slowmo]

I think life only seems to have no meaning when you're not ready, but "when the student is ready the teacher will appear"

Right now i think i've found my teacher, the buddha! And all those years when i just assumed buddhism was probably silly i simply "wasn't ready" :Angel:

[thepunisher]

[these are my views]
People seem to need something to believe in. Whatever it be, they don't want to see life as...pointless. Step back from it all, see life for what it is, and just think to yourself, what possible reason could we have to exist? Life has no meaning. There's no purpose, there's no point to life. It's something I for one have come to accept, and it makes me feel at ease somehow.


...I think there actually is a purpose to our existence on this planet. Just like every other organism the purpose or purposes are to advance, progress and at the same time through sex further our species on this planet. Nurture and educate our children and make sure they are humans still in the future.

Concerning all the other more advanced things in our civilization maybe they're pointless. Whats the point of becoming a millionaire if at the end you have lots of money but die anyways ? Whats the point of building up a business if at the end neither your sons or daughters (if you have any)are capable of sustaining it and it becomes part of a larger conglommerate and so forgotten in the end ? Whats the point of collecting trophies and other memoribilia if when you die it gets thrown on a big garbage truck ? I could go on.

Life has a purpose. Just maybe not the hyped up thing we think it to be.

Christian

[aikiwolfie]

the difference being though, that scientists are always looking for more. if they get something wrong and find out "hey guys- this isnt right" they go out and figure out what the REAL truth is. or as close as they can get. whereas the church will simply try and say "yeah thats what we meant" or simply jam their fingers in their ears.
That's not actually true. The catholic church is engaged in a huge amount of scientific research and always has been. The vatican conducts it's own research into everthing from astronomy to the effectiveness of contraceptives. And scientific research is not only conducted by Catholics.

In their own scientific revolution way back in the good old days, Muslims became far more knowledgable in the fields of Mathematics, Astronomy, Medicine, (Muslims created the first hospitals with isolation wards wich all modern hospitals are modeled on today) and Global Navigation than any other civilisation including the Greeks and the Egyptians. Muslims realised the Earth was round long before anybody else and their calculations and formulae are still used to this day. Unfortunately due to war and power struggles all this development was almost lost.

And organised religiones like Chritianity do admit when they get things wrong. Not so long ago Galilaeo (spelling?) was pardond by the Vatican. Some might think it's a bit late. But if you're a Catholic it's very significant. Catholics beleive they have an imortal soul. As Galilaeo was branded a heritic he would have spent an eternity in Hell. Now that a pardon has been given his soul can assend to Heaven and the poor guy can rest in peace.

Scientists on the other hand can't always accept they are wrong. Take a look at the debates surrounding "string theory" and "M theory", both of which are theorys of how everything came to be. If one is correct the other is wrong and neither side will give way. Even though string theory can't be rounded down to a single equation unless it is accepted that the universe is 11 dimentional and not 10 dimentional.

And then theirs the debates surrounding the evolution of birds. Inspite of all the evidence some still argue that birds did not evolve from dinosuares. And there's also a debate surrounding the origin of T-Rex (the dinosaur not the rock group). Even though early forms of T-Rex have been found in Asia, some still argue it's origin is in North America.

Scientists aren't so quick to jump up and say "hay my lifes work was a waste of time" as you seem to beleive. Similarly you should give religeon a bit more credit for the comfortable lives we live today. Religeon was not only responsible for bringing us many of the first real benefits from scientific study but also responsible for bringing order and purpose to peoples lives where there was none. In fact the democratic societies we enjoy in the developed world evolved from a world that wouldn't have existed without the order that organised religeon brought.

[tekkengod]

1. That's not actually true. The catholic church is engaged in a huge amount of scientific research and always has been. The vatican conducts it's own research into everthing from astronomy to the effectiveness of contraceptives.

2. you should give religeon a bit more credit for the comfortable lives we live today.

1. I know they have a little group of investigators who probe specific events and such. but why on earth would they do research into contraceptives if they totally denounce their use. that sounds like a secondary agenda and a conspiracy theory in the making there.

2. ROFLMAO!!! HAHAHAAHAHAH~ ok, you get Mr. Mencias "dee dee dee" award. :bang: don't make me recap all the negatives AGAIN.

[Koryo]

The essential point of the Big Bang theory is that the universe is not eternal. It has a beginning that is fixed in time.

That's not quite true. An eternal Universe is still fully compatible with the Big Bang theory. The idea is that at the point of the Big Bang the Universe occupied a single point. This means that all space and time occupied a single point. There was no point before the Big Bang, hence eternal Universe. What the Big Bang theory did contradict was the Steady State theory. This theory was that the Universe was infinte and static in all directions

[Ikken Hisatsu]

That's not actually true. The catholic church is engaged in a huge amount of scientific research and always has been. The vatican conducts it's own research into everthing from astronomy to the effectiveness of contraceptives. And scientific research is not only conducted by Catholics. please dont get me started on the vaticans little crusade to stop people in africa using condoms. research!= fear mongering. and while I dont mind religion, organised places of worship ESPECIALLY the catholic church are often as crooked as it gets.

In their own scientific revolution way back in the good old days, Muslims became far more knowledgable in the fields of Mathematics, Astronomy, Medicine, (Muslims created the first hospitals with isolation wards wich all modern hospitals are modeled on today) and Global Navigation than any other civilisation including the Greeks and the Egyptians. Muslims realised the Earth was round long before anybody else and their calculations and formulae are still used to this day. Unfortunately due to war and power struggles all this development was almost lost. yeah i should have excluded the muslims because I realise that despite what we see so often today the muslims were a long way ahead of everyone else.

And organised religiones like Chritianity do admit when they get things wrong. Not so long ago Galilaeo (spelling?) was pardond by the Vatican. Some might think it's a bit late. But if you're a Catholic it's very significant. Catholics beleive they have an imortal soul. As Galilaeo was branded a heritic he would have spent an eternity in Hell. Now that a pardon has been given his soul can assend to Heaven and the poor guy can rest in peace. Im not sure why you would use this for anythnig. I was actually unaware they had only recently pardoned him- I thought they pardoned him fairly soon after he died. another example of the church simply jamming its fingers in its ears.

Scientists aren't so quick to jump up and say "hay my lifes work was a waste of time" as you seem to beleive. Similarly you should give religeon a bit more credit for the comfortable lives we live today. Religeon was not only responsible for bringing us many of the first real benefits from scientific study but also responsible for bringing order and purpose to peoples lives where there was none. In fact the democratic societies we enjoy in the developed world evolved from a world that wouldn't have existed without the order that organised religeon brought.

of course im not naive enough to think that, but progress still happens.

[thepunisher]

..seems to turn into a debate about religion and science. Well, let me see, neanderthals already knew who jesus was, right ? The microscopic cells that form each of us were commanded by a being called "god" to form themselves to be over a billion species on this planet ? Anyone here notices how irrelevant religion is to what life is from just this ?

Life is over a billion species on this planet, starting from little microscopic bacteria to insects over to big mammals and then us humans (or any other way around you want to do this !). None of these other species on this planet, apart from us humans theorize about who created them but just continue living there every day life. None of them (I can't imagine a dolphin thinking:"well, lets see, who made me ?")say:" I need to belief" in order to exist and live there lifes. In fact, more of our animals die on this planet-including little insects like flies-than humans in a day. Think any of them care where they go after they die ?

Life is a simple rythm: You get born, you exist and mate to further your species and then eventually, hopefully you die happy knowing you left someone from your own species. Only us humans have the tendency, because of our intelligence to make up and question our very existence. And to put a "god" as our ultimate creator in certain cases. Does this matter really ? NO ! Because we still will go through this rythm of life and eventually die.

Religion only plays a role in a humans life because ppl have been indoctrinated by it. The first human beings had no clues of it. neanderthals had no religion, they simply fought to survive as a species. It has nothing to do with you as a human being on this planet. We are made of cells and water. Life is you as a human being, as a species of this planet. So lets stop making a religion debate out of a question that concerns our life in general, please.

Christian

[aikiMac]

What the Big Bang theory did contradict was the Steady State theory. This theory was that the Universe was infinte and static in all directions
Phrase it anyway you like, but my point above will remain.

[Maverick]

Well golly gee, good ol' Moses wrote many thousands of years ago that which we didn't conclusively figure out scientifically until the 1970s: "In the beginning ..." If Moses got that right, maybe he got some other things right, and maybe in a few more decades the best and brightest scientists will catch up with him. We allow for that possibility. Have a talk with Antony Flew before you call Ann weak, okay?

Well golly gee, disregarding the billion other reasons why that means nothing, it couldn't be possible that Moses had a 50/50 chance of getting an assumption like that right in the first place?

[aikiMac]

Hmm, I wonder if there's some reverse brainwashing going on. Both you and Tekken missed the scientific flip-flop. I'm sorry that I can't help you see it better.

[tekkengod]

Hmm, I wonder if there's some reverse brainwashing going on. Both you and Tekken missed the scientific flip-flop. I'm sorry that I can't help you see it better.

reverse brainwashing. LOL. *GASP!* you misspelled Tekken!
no i caught it, just not right away.

[aikiMac]

*GASP!* you misspelled Tekken!
Corrected. Sorry.
(I'm quite ashamed.)

[Maverick]

You said that Moses wrote something that we didn't figure out til the 1970s, that the universe had a beginning.

Now the universe can either have a beginning, or it can be eternal. 50/50.

Do you still not understand?

[Cuchulain82]

@inatimate

Your original question (a good one, btw) is one that has been asked namy times before. For a long time people found meaning in religion. They were on earth because of God, for God, and after death would go be with God. However, since the 17th century, that view has come under greater scrutiny. People stopped believing in God, questioned, and had to find different answers. To make a long story short, some great thinkers found answers and those asnwers are now grouped together as a loose school of philosophy called...

Existentialism!

Check it out!

@Aikiwolfe, Muslims

It is true that the Arab/muslim word was a leader in scientific discovery for much of history. The big problem is that there has been a lack of progress/regression for the last 500 years, without a solid decade of advancement to speak of.

@Tekken

Do you hate God or just religions and some of it's worst manifestations? My hunch is that you just dislike the religious system.

[aikiMac]

You said that Moses wrote something that we didn't figure out til the 1970s, that the universe had a beginning.

Now the universe can either have a beginning, or it can be eternal. 50/50.

Do you still not understand?
It's a little more than that and it had nothing whatsoever to do with a coin toss. The best and brightest scientists used to teach that the universe had no beginning. This is directly in conflict with the opening sentence of the Bible, and that conflict did not go unnoticed. The scientific community made a collective gasp ca. 1946 when a physicist put forth a compelling contrary theory that would confirm the opening words of the Bible. His theory could not be proven, however, so people still taught that the world had no beginning, and snickered at people who took seriously the opening words of the Bible. In the 1960s electronic gizmos were developed that could prove/disprove the new theory, and, voila, The Big Bang Theory was born. That dude in 1946 was right. The opening words of the Bible are now considered true. And everyone else accepts that they were wrong. The two guys who proved that the opening words of the Bible were true were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1978 (if I remember the year correctly).

Now sure, we can bicker over the details of this or that phrasing of the theory and which scientist believed what when, but the salient points will always remain: those scientists who scoffed at the opening words of the Bible later recanted.

As to the second part of the opening sentence in Genesis, ask Antony Flew how well it stands still today and what the consequences are.

[tekkengod]

@Tekken

Do you hate God or just religions and some of it's worst manifestations? My hunch is that you just dislike the religious system.

hmmm....well aren't you observant, i've said before, i don't discriminate, i hate most religions.

[Maverick]

My point still stands. The opening words of the bible are just a little bit vague for a start and as I said, had a 50/50 chance of being correct (if indeed that is the case).

Now, if the opening words of the bible were some true scientific revelation which could only be explained by divine knowledge or instruction, such as a sentence describing the workings of some then-incalculable formula, not 'in the beginning' ( :rolleyes: ), then I'd give it some credit.

But this is by the by...because you can't be serious. You can't possibly be inferring that the words 'In the beginning' in the bible implies anything else at all.

[littlesakura10]

"...its not the end destination that is important, but the journey itself..."

i believe that life is about learning in the here and now to better myself or to rise above/evolve/attain enlightenment. what is beyond this after death (if there is any after) is something that is personal to each and every individual. whether you see death as the time to be weighed and measured and rewarded accordingly or as the end of all is up to you. :Angel:

death may very well be a one way trip, so i will concern myself with it when i get there! :D

as for now, i choose to live, learn, love and grow :love:

active food for the spirit/soul, and it keeps me mightly entertained!

[cloudz]

think about that a couple days from that and you'll see what i mean
also there is no such thing as the present, it does not exist, there is only past and future, the so called "present" is actually the past, think about it, this works especially well when moving fast, try to freeze a single moment of the present, done?, how long ago did you "freeze" the present, a couple seconds? a minute?, then it's not the present, it's the past.
same goes for the future, freeze a couple instants in the future, you can't, the future is already the past, no present, only past and future.

weird huh?

well it may be wierd but what would be wierder than that?

Does the past exist? Where?
Does the future exist? Where?
I think they may not..
Like you ask where is now? you answered that bit v. well.

hmm I wonder where that leaves then?

:)

[Fish Of Doom]

well it may be wierd but what would be wierder than that?

Does the past exist? Where?
Does the future exist? Where?
I think they may not..
Like you ask where is now? you answered that bit v. well.

hmm I wonder where that leaves then?

:)

what can be weirder than that? hmmmm.... i don't know:P

does the past exist? yes and no, it does exist, or rather did, when it was the future, but now being the past it exists in the strand of time that contains it but it does not exist because now is the present, which does not exist because it is now the past.

future? well again yes and no cause it's gonna happen but has not happened yet, then turns into nonexistent present, then past, so we return to the above answer


where that leaves?, maybe life is like an unpausable movie, maybe it is not, who knows?:P

that's when the part i said i believe we won't ever understand and we should come to terms with that comes in :)

[cloudz]

past and future, I would say only exist in our minds.

We know that there was a yesterday(memory); but where is it? Does it exist?

[Fish Of Doom]

past and future, I would say only exist in our minds.

We know that there was a yesterday(memory); but where is it? Does it exist?

yes, in our minds.

actually future does not exist in momory per se, more like in thoughts, or in our ability for complicated thoughts like this

a quote i read the other day somewhere(may have been here on MAP):

there's a theory that says that if someone were to find out the meaning of the unicerse, it would instantly change into something far weirder and less understandable.
there's another throey according to which this has already happened:P

[aikiwolfie]

According to Einstien space and time are one thing. To me this means everything exists as one. Time it's self cannot "pass by". Where would it go? So the past, present and future are all the same thing perceived differently. All three exist at once. The "passage" of time is an illusion of human perception.

[fugepilot]

[these are my views]

There's no purpose, there's no point to life.

IMHO, to experience recipricated :love: of another is purpose enough.

[Fish Of Doom]

According to Einstien space and time are one thing. To me this means everything exists as one. Time it's self cannot "pass by". Where would it go? So the past, present and future are all the same thing perceived differently. All three exist at once. The "passage" of time is an illusion of human perception.

agreed, that's sort of what i meant when i said it's like ann unpausable movie, you have the film, it has diminutively thin individual frames, and when you combine millions of those frames you have what humans call actions, and the frames that are between the first and last one are what we call the passage of time

[Kata-Kid]

I don't know if this makes any sense, but IMHO the pupose of life is (most likely) to find the meaning. That real, true enlightenment is to actually understand the meaning of existence.

Hope this makes sense :o .

[john yates]

hmmm....well aren't you observant, i've said before, i don't discriminate, i hate most religions.
hate is such a negative word ?
I think you can express your self better than that,go on give it a go
lifeLife and death irrevesibly linked.
Sceptics of life after death irrevesibly linked,yet we cane not find common ground with each other. 8
__________________
:D

[tekkengod]

hate is such a negative word ?
I think you can express your self better than that,go on give it a go

Indeed it is, and that is the reason i used it.

Ok....hmmm how about "Hate, and would abolish given the chance" there we go. :)
if religion were to start having a positive effect, and not produce limping brainwashed people, i might not hate it as much

[Sheyja]

If you choose to believe there is a point, there will be a point. It will be as mysterious and evasive as you believe it is, or as simple and obvious as you think it is.
If you choose to believe there is no point, there will be no point, and no point given will satisfy you.
You can in fact choose to believe anything and everything, or nothing and noone, and it will be so, given reality through your thoughts.

Personally, I think a lot can be learned from that. Maybe a point (if you wish to think of one) could be to live and experience whatever we wish. Whatever we wish.
All avenues are possible for us, as is shown by the billions of people all doing something different, believing something different, and yet everyone managing to live with their beliefs being true.
You can choose to see the world as magical, and it will be. The displays of magic working will be before your eyes. You can choose to be very depressed and do nothing you consider exciting, and life will be so. All are possible, if only you choose to believe them.
Take a look, how have you chosen to believe your world?

Do you want a point? Do you not want a point? Do you care? The choice is yours, and will always be true.

[tekkengod]

If you choose to believe there is a point, there will be a point. It will be as mysterious and evasive as you believe it is, or as simple and obvious as you think it is.
If you choose to believe there is no point, there will be no point, and no point given will satisfy you.
You can in fact choose to believe anything and everything, or nothing and noone, and it will be so, given reality through your thoughts.

Personally, I think a lot can be learned from that. Maybe a point (if you wish to think of one) could be to live and experience whatever we wish. Whatever we wish.
All avenues are possible for us, as is shown by the billions of people all doing something different, believing something different, and yet everyone managing to live with their beliefs being true.
You can choose to see the world as magical, and it will be. The displays of magic working will be before your eyes. You can choose to be very depressed and do nothing you consider exciting, and life will be so. All are possible, if only you choose to believe them.
Take a look, how have you chosen to believe your world?

Do you want a point? Do you not want a point? Do you care? The choice is yours, and will always be true.

*CLAP CLAP* how insightful, and entierly correct! Great post. :cool:

[john yates]

Indeed it is, and that is the reason i used it.

Ok....hmmm how about "Hate, and would abolish given the chance" there we go. :)
if religion were to start having a positive effect, and not produce limping brainwashed people, i might not hate it as much
ok .
The whole episode may have lasted no more than 10-30 seconds but thats one millio million million million millionths off a second- but it has changed teh universe from something at least 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times bigger. :eek:

[Sheyja]

agreed, that's sort of what i meant when i said it's like ann unpausable movie, you have the film, it has diminutively thin individual frames, and when you combine millions of those frames you have what humans call actions, and the frames that are between the first and last one are what we call the passage of time

Indeed, I have always liked the movie anallegy. You pay your price and agree to believe in the dimensions of time and space, light and sound, and you immerse yourself in your chosen film. If you've seen that kind of film before, you know what to expect; there will be action, there'll be laughter, sorrow, loss, gain, romance and heart ache. It's all there if you want it.

You can hold a reel of film in your hand, and in the same billionth of a second, you hold the beginning, middle, and end. You can watch it with friends for fun, or by yourself to learn. You can watch the same film again and again. You can have two different films playing on different scenes at the same time, who star the same actor playing different characters. You can decide to walk out at any time.

Some people love to watch action films, some love to watch horror movies, others like the watch films of boredom and depression - if you can believe it, they're actually very popular - some try something different every time. Some choose never to go to the movies, there are other ways of growing and experiencing. But if your going to agree to believe in the show you put on, you will forget your true self, as you do in the cinema, maybe once or twice remembering it's just a film.

A film you write, who else does? Who choses the plot? You do. Who writes the script? You do, who else? Who decides the co-stars? Who plays the lead role? And who watches it all? It's always you. Your choices are all powerful in this, your land of free expression.

[Sheyja]

Look at all the different opinions being issued here. So many, and some completely contradictory, yet they all exist, for their posters are the living breathing proof of their beliefs existence within reality. You argue over which is true, but I ask you, if only one was true, what is the other? It exists clear enough, what is it if it is not true? It cannot be a falsity, because that would not be able to exist.
You're all right, because you all believe you are. You can believe whatever you want, ta-daa, it's true and you can live it as a reality. You can change your mind anytime you like, and it'll stop seeming to be true, and your new choice will be true. Everything's always true; it can't occupy your reality if it doesn't exist, and all beliefs occupy and alter your reality.

[tekkengod]

ok .
The whole episode may have lasted no more than 10-30 seconds but thats one millio million million million millionths off a second- but it has changed teh universe from something at least 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times bigger. :eek:

say what?

[john yates]

say what?
say what -or -so what

[Sheyja]

say what -or -so what

I can understand a lot of complex theory, but what you said about 10-30 seconds and whatever makes no sense.

Perhaps try to explain it again?

[john yates]

I can understand a lot of complex theory, but what you said about 10-30 seconds and whatever makes no sense.

Perhaps try to explain it again?
Hi ,ok i got the info from a book that i am Reading.
Bill Bryson -A Short History of Nearly Everything /ISBN 0-552-99704-8
IT,S not that complex if you reading the book .
this is from the book protons are so small that a little dib of ink like the dot on this i can hold something in the region fo 500,000,000,000 of them, or rather more than the number of seconds it takes to make half a million years.
this book is a must

[john yates]

the birth of the universe the inflation theory
The whole episode may have lasted no more than 10-30 seconds but thats one millio million million million millionths off a second- but it has changed the universe from something at least 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times bigger.the inflation theory explains the ripples and eddies that make our universe possible

[aikiwolfie]

I think the problem people are having with the movie analogy is that movies are linier and each passing frame is different. So although it shows the passage of time as we experience it, it doesn't show existance beyond our perception.

If on the other hand the entire movie was contained on a single frame that could be viewed from any angle to show something a little different, I think that explaines things a little better.

[Kata-Kid]

Well, as a programmer i also keep an eye on the demoscene. That made me remember this little 'brain-rattler' (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5), from a while ago. Try downloading it, and consider the message. I think it fits this threads thought quite well.

[cloudz]

I think the problem people are having with the movie analogy is that movies are linier and each passing frame is different. So although it shows the passage of time as we experience it, it doesn't show existance beyond our perception.

If on the other hand the entire movie was contained on a single frame that could be viewed from any angle to show something a little different, I think that explaines things a little better.

like a hologram?

[fugepilot]

this little 'brain-rattler' (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=5), Try downloading it,

I tried and no cigar :confused: .

[Kata-Kid]

I tried and no cigar :confused: .

Try this one (http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=/parties/2000/mekkasymposium00/in64/h7-final.zip) then, it should take you right to the mirrors.

[fugepilot]

Thanks Kata-Kid, nice graphical interlude - not sure if I got the message though, my brain's still rattling. :Angel:

[aikiwolfie]

like a hologram?Aye, or say a multi-angle DVD. As long as the whole thing exists at once.

[Sheyja]

If on the other hand the entire movie was contained on a single frame that could be viewed from any angle to show something a little different, I think that explaines things a little better.

Ahh yes, good idea!