Insanity

[killbill]

"I was sick when it happened, I'm not responsible for what i did"

:( a moral quandary
what is the nature of responsibility for ones actions? should an insane man be punished for a murder? how about a 6 year old?
:confused:

[Furikuchan]

I'm studying psychology at the moment (Studying as in, towards my degree) and the legal aspects of insanity are rather hard to pinpoint. For the most part, a plea of insanity will work, sort of. You won't go to prison, but you'll probably end up in an institution for a good chunk of your life, the only difference between the two being the happy pills, in this day and age. As for the moral side of "can someone be not responsible for themselves?" That is a lot more complicated. First off, it depends on the disease.
Multiple personalities, schizophrenics, autists, and the like really are not in control of themselves. Still, these are the people that end up in the places with the happy pills.
Bipolar disorder causing you to kill someone? It might fly in court, but I don't buy it.
Then, you get your gray areas. Temporary insanity. It does happen. Black-outs, temporary delusions, and all the other weird stuff you hear about in the news is all real. I don't think that they should be allowed to escape prison because of it, though. Give them a reduced sentence, perhaps (if they can prove the problem is real), but at least force them to seek therapy. Black-outs are a huge sign of a bigger problem at work.
But, letting someone go on temporary insanity is like letting someone go because he was drunk.
As for a kid, again, depends on the situation. No, I don't think Maggie Simpson should have gone to jail. I find a serious intent to kill hard to believe in a 6 year-old.

[jroe52]

"if i go insane, please don't put your wires in my brain" rodger waters

"Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.
Shine on you crazy diamond.
Well you wore out your welcome with random precision,
rode on the steel breeze.
Come on you raver, you seer of visions, come on you painter,
you piper, you prisoner, and shine! " rodger waters again hehe

does it truely matter? does it rodger?
"And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
you shout and no one seems to hear
and if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon "

[killbill]

Now watch the Wizard of Oz!

[Vanir]

Communities sometimes single out individuals and literally drive them insane. Many individuals within the community and pretty well most outside are completely unaware of the goings on, however several persons among the authorities are quite likely to realize the actual nature of the situation.
Nevertheless, certain physical acts simply cannot be tolerated. One can even use that fact, were they callous enough and say, outright abuse a disadvantaged person privately, opportunistically and then subtlely antagonize them in all confidence as a police vehicle later passes. It is not so hard for human societies to select those they do not wish to have among them.
I've watched it done.

[killbill]

i believe our justice system needs to be about 100 times more severe on violent crime, and about 100 times less on non-violent crime.

[timmeh!]

Arthur lost his mind,
nowhere to find.
Ah, there it is,
behind the bin
the one that had it in for him

[jroe52]

kill bill i kinda just thought right now that its a good idea. but to what severity? i don't believe eye for an eye type torture, for the 1 out of 1mil that innocently gets tortured, for them i cannot see how a deathpenalty justifies anything. imagine if your innocent, and get the death penalty, shew thats some bad karma onto our soceity. maybe we could go back and make people have to do chain gang labor cleaning up our streets, cleaning up highways, cleaning the garbage out of our rivers and lakes ect...

then my other fear was, what is the bad crime and whats the not-so bad crime? look at us marijuana smokers, we get punished equal or more to someone who gets caught drunk driving.

IF I'M SMOKING MARIJUANA IN THE PRIVATE OF MY HOME AND GET CAUGHT i go to jail for a night, get 500-1000$ in fines, and may even get a felony if i had a large posestion (which i don't because i don't smoke that often lol).

though, if i drink, drive, go home and slap the kids, i don't get in any real problems. if i get caught under a .1 i don't get in any trouble for drinking in driving. if i get caught with more, i might get a 350$ ticket. if i am really drunk, i might go to jail. so for doing a crime such as drinking and driving that kills millions yearly, i get the same offense as if i smoked some pot and went to sleep.

who makes the laws and who influences them is heavily based on what economic businesses put them into action. alot of laws are passed based on what companies fund the politicians or what firms the politicians invest their $ in. i fear that is why we have laxxed polution laws, strict marijuana laws (so it doesn't compete with alcohol), and strict hemp laws (so it doesnt compete with the paper industry), and the list goes on.

haha, wtf am i talking about i am sorry.

[timmeh!]

hey jroe52,

depending on your point of view, what you've just said is pure insanity...

In your sig did B. Lee really say "uner the heavens"??? ;) - he was mad that Lee fella :D

[Vanir]

Death penalty or hard labour, criminals are going to get punished, it doesn't really make any difference. The question is how to make an example of the situation for others (not something which sits well with my personal ethics).
..imagine if your innocent, and get the death penalty...
Kinda keeps you scared a little doesn't it (even where your intentions and general consideration is paramount)?
:rolleyes: funny how that works.

Let me tell you a little (fictional) story:
You're an okay guy/girl. You want the best for people, you're a dedicated individual and you don't have a criminal bone in your body. You just have a perfectly healthy series of personal interest, martial arts, some weapons collecting (for display not use) and you enjoy the firearms range, among all the artistic and general creative interests people may have. Hell maybe you like cars too.
So your job doesn't go well, your family unit desintegrates, your aunt dies, and your house sinks into a swampy marsh which spontaneously developed overnight. Something to do with an ancient Indian burial ground the estate agent never told you about.
So now you're almost on the streets, find people increasingly shunning your increasingly obvious dilemmas...and you've got all these weapons. Hell, maybe you sell a few of them (except your favorites) and keep yourself going a bit longer.
But still people seem to be almost treating you as if you've committed terrible wrongdoings, turning their heads as you pass (maybe they remember much happier days for you), quietly accepting that each must face their own problems, or at least that whatever yours may be it doesn't change the fact that they themselves are walking down the street to buy a new shirt and have a few things to do that afternoon.

The important thing to remember here is regardless of what you haven't done, as far as people are concerned you are becoming increasingly dangerous to the general public. This may be wholly because if they imagined themselves as someone else under similar circumstances they may fantasize about violent responses. Hence they begin to expect this from you.

As you find your employ services increasingly unwanted, petty opportunists increasingly frequenting your circumstances, maybe you'll end up committing armed robberies. Maybe you won't, you could end up destitute, you may qualify some ridiculously inappropriate "rehibilitation program" of some kind (since 'we all know' some physical circumstances suggest there is something amiss with the individual).
Maybe a bunch of local youths will come across you sleeping in a local park and decide you an excellent target for a drunken beating. They'd have beaten anybody, they wouldn't care and the media would report a "gang of violent youths."
But you happen to draw out that nickel plated .38" snubnose you'd managed to hang on to thus far, and instead those youths are the community's sons and daughters, "gunned down in the prime of their lives after a night of socializing at a friend's house..."

The point is, much easier to have everybody well and truly in line from the word go. Anybody's circumstances of general life can deteriorate and nobody knows what they would do...and perhaps that's the real problem.

[timmeh!]

The point is, much easier to have everybody well and truly in line from the word go. Anybody's circumstances of general life can deteriorate and nobody knows what they would do...and perhaps that's the real problem.

reboot the human consciousness then?

[Nukite]

Based on how a man reasons and is capable of understanding his own reasoning then responsibility is down to basic understanding of these reasoning. The majority always rules basic reasoning, laws and somethimes certain exceptions can be made but the majority rules. As to punishment comprehension of what has been done i.e. murder by say an insane man or a 6 years old child
is rules by the majority. The majority is responsible to common responsibility for one,s action. The only choice is the majority not the minority. The law of the majority rules.

[killbill]

kill bill i kinda just thought right now that its a good idea. but to what severity? i don't believe eye for an eye type torture.

neither do i, if you take my eye, ill take your head.

[Maximicus]

Everyone does everything for a reason. Could someone be excused for robbing a bank because it was a rush?

[Nightstrike]

An eye for an eye and we'd all be blind...
A very very wise man said that.

[LeadLegger]

I agree with something Jroe52 said. As long as you don't sell Marijuana, you aren't really hurting anybody but yourself, but you get a bigger punishment than driving drunk, which kills millions of people a year.

In the U.S. you can get more years in prison for tax evasion than you can for killing somebody. Didn't a man kill a 2 year-old and get 6 years in prison while another man got 9 years in prison for tax evasion last year? I can't remember, I'll have to check


And why don't we make slaves out of prisoners and put them to some use??? We waste lots of money feeding them and they take up oxygen.

[Maximicus]

Here in the US men get sent to death row for rapeing a grown woman, but often under 10 yrs. (BEFORE probation, parole, good behavior, etc. shaving off years!) in prison ofr rapeing a child.

Law=/=Justice

[killbill]

an eye for an eye and we'd all go blind? think about it and you will see that that is bunk. besides i hate people who don't differentiate between murder and punishment. I see bumper stickers that say "why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing is wrong?" DUH DUMMY we aren't showing that killing is worng, everyone knows that, we are punishing a criminal and preventing him from hurting anyone else.

[Tatsumaru]

why don't we just take all the money of any prisoner convicted for something more than petty theft and use it to fund public services, might even mean less taxes and it would certainly put people off committing crime. The best part is that human rights people can't complain about inhumane punishments etc.

I'm a frickin' genius!!!