BK Frantzis?

[bob01]

Just wondering if anyone here has any personal experience with the man, Ive read all his books and he seems very knowledgeable, but he seems almost too good to be true. Would appreciate the views of those who have direct experience of IMA's as my knowledge only comes from books.

Cheers Bob :D

[BaGuaMaster X]

I have met Bruce on various workshops as well as the fact that my instructor is a good friend of his. Trust me when i say the man is more than capable of what he writes and in fact, if anything, he doesn't show you what he really can do! I studied bagua with him for a while in California and the man is also a fantastic teacher. Check out www.energyarts.com to find out when his workshops are...they are totally worth the time.

[madfrank]

Bruce is like montaigue he makes a lot of money out of a little knowledge.

He does not have the good oil as the chinese say.

MF

[hwardo]

Bruce is like montaigue he makes a lot of money out of a little knowledge.

He does not have the good oil as the chinese say.

MF

What are you basing your opinion on? Just curious.

[Sandus]

I don't know anything about the guy but I know a lot about video. Every video on his website is edited or doctored in some way. Wouldn't it make more sense to be honest?

[soggycat]

The difference between Erle Montague and Bruce K Frantzis is that
Bruce:

1. Speaks Mandarin
2. Spent 20 years in China
3. Did not base his learning on videos
4. His lineage is clearly documented and on display
5. Believes in Empty Force, as he had seen it for himself

[madfrank]

The difference between Erle Montague and Bruce K Frantzis is that
Bruce:

1. Speaks Mandarin. and this relates fighting how?:)

2. Spent 20 years in China. so doesnt mean a thing

3. Did not base his learning on videos. you where there when he learned his stuff coool did montaigue learn from videos? I dont think they were around when he started training where they? :)

4. His lineage is clearly documented and on display. As is Montaigues, you know you didnt think this through did you.:)

5. Believes in Empty Force, as he had seen it for himself and this makes him what stupid or clever?:)

Anyway I'm not defending Earle anymore.

Keep training you'll find the way.

but you'll need to open your mind grasshopper:)

MF

[David]

I have a BKF video of tai chi defensive applications just done casually in a park setting. It's all one-take footage and a bit messy but his stuff worked. He also was able to demonstrate a variety of ways of using each move and a variety of responses to particular moves.

I think that's enough to be be getting on with.

Rgds,
David

[hwardo]

Just for the record, B.K. Frantzis says that it is all but impossible to use empty force on a resisting opponent, and that there is always a little bit of theatre going on when it is demonstrated. That said, some of the stuff that his last master did sounds fairly amazing.

[bob01]

This is probably only vaguely relevant, but BKF's fa-jing demonstration looked a lot more impressive than Earle's.
That said videos can be tinkered with.
Bob :D

[bob01]

Liu Hung Chieh's abilities did sound mighty impressive. Although I believe that all these things are possible, BKF's recounting Liu's ability to crack concrete paving slabs simply by stepping on them, move BKF around the room with his chi & perform other astonishing feats did make me a tad skeptical, plus I've never come across his name in any other IMA literature, but then he was a recluse.
The plot thickens.
Bob

[soggycat]

A Martial Artist interested in learning Chinese Internal Martial Arts will find it useful to first learn the Chinese language if he is to learn from a Chinese Martial Arts teacher.
Many subtle techniques, especial in IMA are untranslatable. Many Chinese Masters cannot speak English with sufficient proficiency to communicate the finer points.


The language issue is less prominent with Extrenal Arts like most Shaolin styles , one can learn most EMAs by merely copying & imitation.

MadFrank, I have examined many of your posting, your dismissive and condescending ( grasshopper ? that's so old and juvenile)tone suggest an arrogance that you know it all.It is in fact you who should humble yourself and keep an open mind. Remember, in IMA we EMPTY OUR MINDS not SKULLS.

[soggycat]

SC:
His lineage is clearly documented and on display.
MadFrank:As is Montaigues, you know you didnt think this through did you.

SC: You are incorrect. Obviously you are not familiar with the controvesy surrounding the authenticity of his lineage and the fuss over the Old Yang TaiChi thing.

BK Frantzis lineage is on display , completed with seals and certificates , you will find it in his book. " Power of Internal Martial Arts "

[soggycat]

BK Franzis's Fajing appeared more Effortless than Erle's.
Which is the whole point of IMA

[BaGuaMaster X]

Hmmm. I know non of you have any reason to believe me but i really can attest to Bruce's skill. The man knows his stuff.

[madfrank]

soggy i diss you cos you keep dissing me

you go your way ill go mine

MF

[soggycat]

If one cannot impress with Intelligence, he can try and dazzle with his Ignorance

[madfrank]

well you are dazzling me

MF

[Happeh]

I heard frantzis has a temper problem. He seemed egotistical to me.

[BaGuaMaster X]

He did use to have a temper issue, you could see the fire in his eyes! he's calmed down now though. I'd just like to hear some justification from those who say he doesn't know a lot. Ever met the man?

[hwardo]

I am actually really interested in taking one of BKF's seminars. Have you been to one, Bagua?

[BaGuaMaster X]

I have indeed although it was a more informal affair. My instructor is a friend of his and i've met up with Bruce and taken classes from him but never been to one of his official seminars. I presume they are at a similar level to his classes and if this is the case i would really encourage you to go!

[KRONOS]

My teachers said he came to Beijing and went to all the schools and asked to fight the teachers (in China it's called breaking the school down, because you have to first beat all the students). They can't speak for his real skills but they said he has a lot of balls for a white man. They also mention though that he's a huge guy at like 6'-4" and thought that might have a little to do with it.

[cybermonk]

Empty force?
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n4_v22/ai_20915028

edit: full article here: http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/information/articles/the_water_margin.html

This man can do it!!:
"Issue 8 contained a rebuttal from Shen, and featured three photographs (shades of levitating TM-ers!) showing an adult male falling to the floor and rolling out of a room, propelled by the waving hands of Shen. It also published a letter from Brewer, challenging Docherty and Morton to put their money where their pens were, inviting them to attend the next seminar, and promising to refund their tuition fees if they did not become convinced of Shens special powers."

No wait...he cant:

"Docherty and Morton duly attended. On the first day, before the seminar commenced, Docherty brandished his [pounds]300 and stated that he was happy to pay, but wished first to have a demonstration of the powers. He told Shen, both in Mandarin Chinese and in English (to avoid any confusion), what he was about to do. He slowly approached Shen, gave him time to summon/prepare/deploy his special powers, and proceeded to pour a liter of water over him. Needless to say, Docherty did not collapse and roll out on the room, the water did not take detour around Dr. Shen's head, nor did it spontaneously leap into the jug. Thereupon Docherty and Morton left the seminar."

[Sandy]

I am actually really interested in taking one of BKF's seminars.

I plan to attend one of his UK seminars later in the year. Having read one of his books, I'm very curious!