Countering a straight blast?

[Cain]

Hmm....the JKD straight blast is pretty good if you are in the offensive, but what if you are on the recieving end? any suggestions on countering a straight blast?

|Cain|

[TkdWarrior]

dude i was about to put that question...
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

Be glad I saved u that trouble :D

|Cain|

[AndyD]

One way is to 'gum it up' using pressure with slower, heavier movement than that of the straight blast.

This concept is trained within chi sau (when it's done correctly).

[Cain]

Uh...huh? mind explaining a bit?

|Cain|

[Morne]

You need to test these techniques under full resistance. Two ways that work the best is to get out of the line of attack i.e side step the second the more physical approach is to meet the force and crash right in to it to tie your opponenet up in the clinch! I wouldnt put too much trust in Chi Sao to deal with this kind of attack!

Enjoy!
Morné

[YODA]

Good stuff Morne.

I've had good results with the good old double leg takedown. I've found a quick slip & lead hook to work well - as well as a hard Thai long knee. I've found these to work by alive sparring - the only way!

[pgm316]

What is alive sparring exactly?

[YODA]

Err..... Alive sparring is sparring with a realistic amount of contact and with any range allowed i.e. kicking, punching, knees & elbows, takedowns, grappling, strikes on the ground etc. I.e. with full resistance using anything you can land.

[Cain]

Thanx for the info guys, we do alive sparring occasionally so if there's one today then I will let ya know about my progress, thanx guys

|Cain|

[pgm316]

Of right, its seems to be a JKD term, not heard it much. How often is alive sparring part of your training, or how often do you think it should be part of someones training?

[Cain]

Well....in our school, alive sparring takes place occasionally, it's regular like, whenever we spar, we always do avile sparring, in fact alive sparring in JKD is 'sparring' to us

|Cain|

[pgm316]

We seem to do it less frequently, still do it though. We have a few levels of sparring. I'd be a total wreck in no time if all my sparring was like that. I've already had plenty of sparring unjuries.

[Cain]

Hmm....ok guys here's wat happend -

Sparring was'nt supposed to happen today but I got my senior partner to help me pressure test

He comes at me punching wildly at my tors, the first few times I was too busy blocking them, oh well later when I sidestepped with me moving back, can u guess wat happend? He was so busy in advancing that I ended up facing his bac, a whole open target to me for about a second :D But I was too slow to actually get him....I gotta try a diff strategy next time.....

Thanx for ur help guys I really appreciate it

|Cain|

[AndyD]

Chi sau is more than a drill to train sensitivity. Chi sau trains structure and the use of pressure as well as how to deal with it. In chi sau your structure is set up so you automatically fall into any gaps that your opponent gives producing a strike and/or trap. The spring in the structure (which is strong but not rigid) creates a stickness that allows you to monitor and control your opponents arms.

The wing chun straight blast is trained to fire structurely strong punches towards the centre of the opponent at all times. This makes parrying and avoidance extremely difficult. Because of the body connection involved if one of these punches makes contact it'll take you off your feet.

Defending against the straight blast the attributes gained from chi sau practice are brought into play the instant his straight blast makes contact with you. At that moment of contact your structure adjusts automatically and you can now feel what your opponent is doing rather than rely on your eyes to see it - which is what you need when things get this fast. This won't look like chi sau and it sure won't last as long. As your opponent continues to throw punches your structure (through your forward pressure) falls into the minute spaces that your opponent is giving you (which comes down to how much structure the straight blast has) - the effect of which is to gum up your opponent.

This is what you should be going towards when training chi sau. Let's face it if you can't stop punches with what you get from it what use is it.

[YODA]

This is what you should be going towards when training chi sau. Let's face it if you can't stop punches with what you get from it what use is it.

No use at all.

[TkdWarrior]

thnx for info guys...tho i dunno when i'll be able to put it into "alive sparring" let's see..
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

Ya it's kinda difficult at first with some whacko coming at u with full speed punching wildly.....

|Cain|

[YODA]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
Ya it's kinda difficult at first with some whacko coming at u with full speed punching wildly.....

|Cain|

LOL! Sounds like you need some better sparring partners Cain :p

[TkdWarrior]

"Ya it's kinda difficult at first with some whacko coming at u with full speed punching wildly....."
hit`em with a side kick silly :p
never box with boxers :D
-TkdWarrior-

[simonlarcombe]

I don't know a great deal about the JKD straight blast. But, perhaps, here's something to try.

As the person coming at you with the "straight blast" is focused upon travelling in a straight line why not try flowing around your opponent Tai Chi style. Using circular movement to put yourself behind them. Use the massive power they are trying to put into you to defeat them. Just a thought!?

However, I would have to say, if you are up against someone who is VERY well trained and practiced with excellent structure. I think you are... well, in big big trouble ... try running!! Even if you do get around them it would probably be a good idea to keep going in the opposite direction, practice your sprinting :-)

Simon :-)

[YODA]

Originally posted by simonlarcombe

However, I would have to say, if you are up against someone who is VERY well trained and practiced with excellent structure. I think you are... well in big big trouble ... try running!! Even if you do get around them it would probably be a good idea to keep going in the opposite direction, practice your sprinting :-)

Simon :-)


Good points Simon

Just becasue you cannot slip a pro boxer's jab doesn't mean slipping the jab is not a good technique.

As always it's down to the individual & what he/she can do with the knowledge.

[TkdWarrior]

nice point simon....sounds like u do tai chi...
However, I would have to say, if you are up against someone who is VERY well trained and practiced with excellent structure.
practice your sprinting :-)

if he is really trained then don't u think he can be good runner too? u can't ignore that fact u r not "carl lewis" :D
it's bad news
-TkdWarrior-

[simonlarcombe]

Maybe I am Carl Lewis ;-)

Well, no you are right I'm certainly not.

But... You make an interesting point.

Presonally don't think you do need to be very physically fit to be an excellent fighter (after a point I'm not absolutely sure it helps). Lots of practice, excellent structure along with many other attributes are essential but I'm really not sure about extreme physical fitness. Get it done, FAST!

I am not very fit, which might make me biased. But I would like to be, and I'm making steps to get there. However, I don't do this for my training because I don't think I need it. More to do with vanity I'm afraid! :-)

Simon

[YODA]

"Fighting efficiently" is never an excuse for non-athletic training.

"Fatigue makes a coward out of brave men" - was it Cuss D'Amato who said that?

Get in shape yer slob! (Joke) :D

[simonlarcombe]

lol

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Fighting efficiently is being several miles away by the time the first punch is thrown. Anything else naturally includes some inneficiency.

[Freeform]

No, because that, by definition, wouldn't be fighting now, would it?

Efficient fighting (to quote WC) would be to have 'No wasted motion'.

And to ideally touch your opponents once only to defeat them.

Colin

[YODA]

Originally posted by Freeform
No, because that, by definition, wouldn't be fighting now, would it?

Efficient fighting (to quote WC) would be to have 'No wasted motion'.

And to ideally touch your opponents once only to defeat them.

Colin



B A N G! :woo:

[LilBunnyRabbit]

But not getting involved in a fight uses zero energy in that fight, and so is surely the most efficient way. You're not wasting any motion at all.

[YODA]

Originally posted by ckdstudent
But not getting involved in a fight uses zero energy in that fight, and so is surely the most efficient way. You're not wasting any motion at all.




S L A P!

Yoda gives Jimmy slap on head :p

No fight = no fight :D

[TkdWarrior]

hmm is it me who's not feeling rite or anyone else too...
i m agreeing with CKD :D tho i don't agree with ppl...
guess not my day
-TkdWarrior-

[YODA]

Don't make me slap you too TKDW :D

[Freeform]

BANG?

BANG BANG (FF's in Cactus Jack mode now, que funny walk).

Fighting=Fighting

Not Fighting=Smart - Though sometimes stupid

Walking Away=Not Fighting

Colin

[YODA]

BANG = Finishing the fight by touching the opponent just once...... With a bullet :D

[pgm316]

Fighting efficiently means fighting using as little force as necessary. Avoiding a fight, however more efficient is a different thing entirely CKD & TKD! :D

[TkdWarrior]

<however more efficient is a different thing entirely CKD & TKD! :D>
yup yup i m trying to avoid a fight :D
-TkdWarrior-

[Freeform]

Yes thats it!

Fight=Conflict

No conflict, no fight.

[Cain]

Originally posted by YODA


LOL! Sounds like you need some better sparring partners Cain :p


You can say that again, my partner is 20-30 pounds heavier than me :( I was NEVER able to hit him solidly

|Cain|

[simonlarcombe]

Having now seen how a structurally good straight blast demonstrated you can completely disregards my idea about flowing around it (I believe anyway) as it simply wouldn't work!

[johndoch]

What happens when two opponents meet head on with a straight blast and keep goin?

[pgm316]

I think you get 2 sore opponents :p

[Cain]

Seriously speaking the weaker one will just retreat

|Cain|

[johndoch]

I think that the the blast will break down quite quickly as each fighter cuts into each others strike. IMHO it would now be the person that can control a clinch that would be at an advantage.

Is that a viable counter to the straight blast?

[simonlarcombe]

Think of a fan (as in an office type fan, not a chinese one).

Imagine that this fan is always facing your centre line so if you move to the side it follows you.

How can you stop/get past the fan?

Throw in a wet towel...?

This probably sounds like complete and utter rubbish!!!!

[Cain]

Umm.......sorry simon I could'nt see wat exactly u meant :confused:

Johndoch -

That might just work but if either of the fighters refuse to give up the straight blast then the outcome would be pgm's answer :D

|Cain|

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I imagine you mean throw in a wet towel as a whip-like motion, hooking in from the side to strike behind the fan without going head to head against it. Could be wrong though.

[simonlarcombe]

I had a go at this last night.

Ask someone to attack you with chain punches, make sure they follow your centre line, so if you move to the side and try to go around it they should follow you making it very difficult.

Try different approaches to defending and countering it. Ask the attacker to use little power and speed to begin with, building up as you progress.

Just try putting your arms into the chain punch, relaxed.

I'd be interested to know what you find.

[iolair]

Personally, I've found it most effective to step into (or into and sideways) the attacker. Punches require a certain range; close to elbow/knee range or to grappling range and they are nullified.

But really, you should pre-empt the attack before it happens: either
- diffuse the situation (BEST SOLUTION!!)
or
- take the attacker out before they start their technique (use a kick if they're at kicking range, or use a strong punch to knockout)

[simonlarcombe]

Good points but I think stepping into the straightblast (just stepping in) would be disasterous against a skilled opponent.

As I understand it...and PLEASE correct me someone if I'm wrong. If you did somehow manage to move into the straight blast it would simply adjust into something else, in any case I'm sure that it wouldn't stop and possibly even become something much more final.

[pgm316]

Against a skilled opponents straightblast, you only answer might be good footwork to stay out of range and try picking them off with shots when you see an opening.

What would you say the weaknesses of a straightblast are?
Predictable movement & attacks in a rhythm …?

[TkdWarrior]

wat i understand backing to straight blast wouldn't be efficient in anyway. the thing is not to give up ur center. "warding off" from Taichi would may hav good effect...but u need good pushin hand skills ..errmm got stuck, sh!t.
-TkdWarrior-

[simonlarcombe]

It's difficult to say what the weakness of the straighblast are (especially given my limited knowledge) but I suppose weaknesses of the act itself could be:

Going for speed with no attention payed to power
Moving away from the centre line (both yours and opponents)
Concentrating on arms rather than the whole body

I suppose, all in all...structure.

[TkdWarrior]

"Going for speed with no attention payed to power"
no first u try to generate speed then one can add power with good speed too n i think it's not big deal

"Moving away from the centre line (both yours and opponents)"
do u mean that the center line is fixed? i think not, it's confusing because Center will change relatively to ur position?...
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
wat i understand backing to straight blast wouldn't be efficient in anyway. the thing is not to give up ur center. "warding off" from Taichi would may hav good effect...but u need good pushin hand skills ..errmm got stuck, sh!t.
-TkdWarrior-

Backing off not efficient? Against a good opponent!

mmmmmmmmm

You'd have to be able to ward off damn fast to block them attacks.
I've trained with the striaght blast, either move out of range or be prepared to exchange blows :eek:

[simonlarcombe]

Generating power is important. If you attack me with chain punch, for example, and it feels like I'm being hit with a spinning rubber glove :-) I can just walk straight through it. If there's no power then there probably isn't any structure.

Your centre line is fixed...but it does move, it moves with you. Your attack should come from the centre line, focused at your opponents centre line. If it doesn't you loose structure and this can be taken advantage of.

[TkdWarrior]

<Backing off not efficient? Against a good opponent!>
it's because normally ppl don't practice back stepping, n in normal cases u run faster forward rather than backward...
while u r backing off u r actually giving signs of defending against pure offense which IMO is waste of ur energy, when u r backing off without any plans ur mind n body will go bit defense n that gives good chance to agressor...
In Warding off u'll be able to ward off n attack without backing or exchanging TOO much blows n yes it's bit hard that's why u need good pushing skills...
-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

<Generating power is important. >
yup that's what i m saying... generating power is not much big deal when u r able to achieve good speed with rite structure that's why i m putting much empahsis on speed than power...
let's say if i m able to pop punches on ur nose even with granny power :D it'll gave me enuff time to put u down...
in chain punching ur target is face, throat where u don't need blasting power, a good close to decent punch is good nuff..

we both r talking same thing about center line simon
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

I think I'll stick to stepping back, I don't mean running away in any way! But standing your ground against somebody throwing a lot of fast punches is exactly what thet want you to do. I doubt very muct you will block all the punches.

Stepping out of range is a good technique, it will upset their gameplan, forcing them to move in at you, just a case of waiting for an opening which they are likely to do with being so offensive.

[simonlarcombe]

I don't agree with you 100% on the power thing, I think we'll agree to disagree.

I was just being a **** about the centre line thing by the way (fill in the blanks with whatever you like)

:-)

[TkdWarrior]

<I doubt very muct you will block all the punches.>
PGM if u notice i m talking about not being into defensive mode if i m blocking all the punches then i m doing that ... so i m already on disadvantage... that's what i m trying to do...

yup simon we can agree to disagree... NP
n i hate fill in the blanks :D
-TkdWarrior-

[iolair]

Originally posted by simonlarcombe
Good points but I think stepping into the straightblast (just stepping in) would be disasterous against a skilled opponent.

As I understand it...and PLEASE correct me someone if I'm wrong. If you did somehow manage to move into the straight blast it would simply adjust into something else, in any case I'm sure that it wouldn't stop and possibly even become something much more final. As you step in (quickly), you'll probably receive a punch or two. Because when I do this, I guard my head (also, I'm quite tall), these will land on my chest. And because I've stepped in, they've not had the full motion to build up the power in the punches: the punches will not have enough power built up to do any damage. Switch to grappling (probably with an elbow strike to the head from your non-guard arm on the way in), and the attackers reliance on the blast is nullified.

I've never managed to make increasing range against a determined attacker work (with a cautious attacker, OK), even though I do a LOT of footwork practice. So if they're outgunning you at the range you're at, you need to switch to a closer one... This is why it's vital to be strong at all ranges (Kicking, Punching, Elbow/Knee, Grappling, Groundwork).

[pgm316]

Well thats fair enough Tkd, but you must be prepared to exchange blows, if the other person can do a good straight blast. Maybe this is something you find acceptable. And to be honest that’s the way I often end up, and it seems to work for me ;)

Stepping back isn’t just defensive, its also about drawing your opponent out and making them step into you attacks. Can work well, and should be less risky!

[pgm316]

Originally posted by iolair
As you step in (quickly), you'll probably receive a punch or two. Because when I do this, I guard my head (also, I'm quite tall), these will land on my chest. And because I've stepped in, they've not had the full motion to build up the power in the punches: the punches will not have enough power built up to do any damage. Switch to grappling (probably with an elbow strike to the head from your non-guard arm on the way in), and the attackers reliance on the blast is nullified.

I've never managed to make increasing range against a determinedattacker work (with a cautious attacker, OK), even though I do a LOT of footwork practice. So if they're outgunning you at the range you're at, you need to switch to a closer one... This is why it's vital to be strong at all ranges (Kicking, Punching, Elbow/Knee, Grappling, Groundwork).


I’ve always used range to good effect, maybe its because of the kickboxing sparring I’ve done, or just the way I fight[?] fighting at close range is usually the messiest range to fight in, ending in brawling, which is fine if you can handle that. It all depends how you want to fight......

Are you prepared to take a punch or two, I've sparred with people that would be happy to supply two punches in that way, capable of knocking you out or as I found out, cracking a rib :rolleyes:

[iolair]

Originally posted by pgm316
Are you prepared to take a punch or two, I've sparred with people that would be happy to supply two punches in that way, capable of knocking you out or as I found out, cracking a rib :rolleyes:
As I said, the trick is to move in close enough that they don't have space to build power in their punches. I'm not going to stand there and take full power punches!

I still stand by what I said before - the best tactic is to preempt the attempt at a straight blast and take them out first (preferably from kicking range).

[pgm316]

iolair, thats fair comment, I wasn't trying to say one way was right and the other wrong. Just that they all have different risks.

I also like to pre-emt a situation, definitely the most effective method, but surely a pre-emp can't be a counter! ;)

You wouldn't need to move in for kicking range would you?

[Cain]

Moving in is a good idea if they r aiming for ur torsos but if they target ur face then maybe u r in big trouble........

|Cain|

[TkdWarrior]

hey pgm i can understand stepping back is not defensive but the prob is very common even in decent MAist that is
1. not much ppl can hit while stepping back(even if they, no force)
2. not much ppl learn to step back with efficience
3. backfard stepping is slower than forward stepping
these r things which i noticed n made comment that backstepping becomes defensive while using...
ah yea pgm in Taichi warding off can be used as an attack itself so again when u attack on attack u give more chances to u to make ur oppnt switiching into defensive mode
tho pre empt is always inarguably the best method to stop any altercation :D

cain the problem is that we can't just analyse the situation it's much easy to deal than u can think... just hav someone chain punching u, u'll feel it.
-TkdWarrior-

[iolair]

Presumably an Aikidoka or Judoka would come up with some cunning way to use the forward motion of the attacker?

[pgm316]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
hey pgm i can understand stepping back is not defensive but the prob is very common even in decent MAist that is
1. not much ppl can hit while stepping back(even if they, no force)

-TkdWarrior-

I agree it can be difficult to punch while stepping back, often depends how good your footwork is. Although my point was to step back first, forcing them to take a step into you. Should disrupt the straight blast slightly. Allowing you to strike them as they try and close the range down again.

In theory standing your ground against a straight blast isn't the smartest.

[TkdWarrior]

hmm i think i m missing something here...
i m not exactly talking about standing there n take on beating it'll not work in any kind of offense... i m talking about yielding/adhering techniques that's common in taiji/bagua/aikido watever i m doin in not going back maybe moving in or just a step in arc to yeild his power...
it's kind a hard to explain with notes doh...
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

I know you don't plan to stand there and take a beating, but it might happen anyway :D

The original question was how to counter a straight blast from a skillfull oponent. So with skillfull in mind, is going in headlong the best option? Expect a good battle! ;)

[TkdWarrior]

<The original question was how to counter a straight blast from a skillfull oponent. >
ok this chance is one in hundred millions unless u r against Yoda :D ;)
seriously i noticed being skillfull...
n it's the way i liked to do it...i had very bad habbit which took yrs to remove n it was back pedalling n seriously did i got in trouble wiht that?? one thing for sure my blocks were become inpenetrable...
if u oppnt is skillful then i prefer myself to be skillful :D
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Talking of Yoda, wonder what he's verdict is on this???????
After all he is the straight blast Jedi! :)

[simonlarcombe]

Go back to page 1 and read what Andy D wrote.

(sorry Yoda I'm not suggesting for one second that you don't answer but I think what Andy said makes a lot of sense and maybe we should go back and take a look at this).

[johndoch]

Hey Simon,

I know what andy's gettin but to be honest chi sau is a very specific technique to wing chun and a few other arts like JKD however to train this takes time and lots of practice to make it practical. Chi sau is not the be all and end all its part of the whole. by this I mean you would maybe start with a pak sau (slap hand) then change into the chi sau techniques of sticky hands and maybe finish with a lop sau (grabbing hand) pulling your opponent in to a lock/strike or whatever.

I think this is a very complicated way to go and would take years to master. Personally I would say a good slip inside followed by a few hooks and or uppercuts would be a whole lot easier to master than chi sau. Iam saying this because when you watch a boxing match you dont see straight blasts that often coz if you try that on a good boxer as an attacking weapon you would be lucky to get a hit in.

IMHO I reckon that the straight blast is a counter striking combo.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch
Hey Simon,

I know what andy's gettin but to be honest chi sau is a very specific technique to wing chun and a few other arts like JKD however to train this takes time and lots of practice to make it practical. Chi sau is not the be all and end all its part of the whole. by this I mean you would maybe start with a pak sau (slap hand) then change into the chi sau techniques of sticky hands and maybe finish with a lop sau (grabbing hand) pulling your opponent in to a lock/strike or whatever.

I think this is a very complicated way to go and would take years to master. Personally I would say a good slip inside followed by a few hooks and or uppercuts would be a whole lot easier to master than chi sau. Iam saying this because when you watch a boxing match you dont see straight blasts that often coz if you try that on a good boxer as an attacking weapon you would be lucky to get a hit in.

IMHO I reckon that the straight blast is a counter striking combo.

I can see where you are coming from, and have no doubt that your approach would work John, as would that of others here.

Where I might challenge you, is that I don't feel it takes a long time to learn Chi Sau. It's only a drill at the end of the day, but very simple applications to counter the straight blast can be leaned from it in minutes. Mastery of Chi Sau is a different thing entirely, as I believe mastery of anything is an impossible paradox.

You can't chain punch with gloves on, as they get in the way!

Intercept the line of the straight blast as soon as possible, redirect it to trap and hit, or take down. Pak Sau or Bong Sau even better. Backing off is simply buying time until you find an opening?

Some fuel for the fire?

[AndyD]

Hi John

You said "however to train this takes time and lots of practice to make it practical"

Actually, when trained correctly it doesn't. Everyone I've taught it to has benfited from it within the first session. Chi Sau is really simple its just that everyone complicates it by talking in terms of tecniques rather than principals

You said "Personally I would say a good slip inside followed by a few hooks and or uppercuts would be a whole lot easier to master than chi sau"

You don't need to master chi sau to use it effectively - chi sau simply drills you in certain vital principals that exist in combat. Obviously mastering it would certainly help :-)


Andy

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Andy Murray


Backing off is simply buying time until you find an opening?

Some fuel for the fire?

Well yeah, thats exactly what it is? Is that a bad thing, to me it seems a safer option than heading headlong into a good straightblast.

Backing off and use of range seems to be used a lot more in boxing and kickboxing etc than in martial arts. In MA's people keep seeing it as a sign of weakness. Maybe its a sign you don't believe you can block each jab/cross/hook and manage to trap the person throwing the straight blast.

I think the use of range is the best strategy against the straight blast, just because throwing a lot of fast punches makes it more difficult to use range and good footwork.

Anyway just another way to handle the situation, the WC way is also a way I've been taught it and I do believe quite effective!

[johndoch]

Quote AndyMurray - "I don't feel it takes a long time to learn Chi Sau. It's only a drill at the end of the day, but very simple applications to counter the straight blast can be learned from it in minutes."

When Ive done chi sau at training I do concede that you can learn a few simple techniques in a few minutes. However I feel during the early stages of learning chi sau its more about feeling your opponent and is not as alive as in a sparring situation. It takes time for the novice to get up to speed in chi sau.

Quote AndyMurray:
"You can't chain punch with gloves on, as they get in the way!"

Hmmm, never thought of that. LOL

[Cain]

Umm.......anybody lemme know wat exactly is 'chi sau' 'pak sau' n 'bong sau'????

|Cain|

[TkdWarrior]

chi sau is "senstive hands" this is basically an Excercise which trains u with senstivity...more than that it's hard to say... tho i hav done Chi sau/tui shou
pak sau/bang sau r trapping techniques of Wing chun i m remember rite...
-TkdWarrior-

[johndoch]

Chi sau is sticky hands were you and a partner face each other with your arms touching. when one person strikes the other dissolves the strike and returns with a strike. this is repeated in a cycle over and over. It can get tricky.

Bong sau is an elbow block. the mechanics are similar to looking at a watch imho.

[pgm316]

Chi sau is a lot about learning sensitivity, once you learn it you can apply it to many things, its not limited to the technique itself. I think, I never listen properly though :p

[Cain]

Hmm.......chi sau seems to be sorta complicated to me......

|Cain|

[johndoch]

Yes it can get pretty complicated but the trick is to learn the basics and soon you be blocking instinctively using the feeling of your partners movements. Its keeping the flow with your partner that is hard to sustain

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch
Chi sau is sticky hands were you and a partner face each other with your arms touching. when one person strikes the other dissolves the strike and returns with a strike. this is repeated in a cycle over and over. It can get tricky.

Bong sau is an elbow block. the mechanics are similar to looking at a watch imho.

Thousands of years of CMA evolution summarised in this way?

Ugh!

Deflections, not blocks. A world of a difference. The re-directed attack becomes a useful thing, as opposed to being merely cast aside.

" It can get tricky"

I need to come see you real soon John! :(

Andy

[johndoch]

Quote AndyMurray

"Thousands of years of CMA evolution summarised in this way?"

Sorry to upset anyone out there Im just making my own brief observations. Its hard to describe something as complicated as chi so I simplyfy :-)

"Deflections, not blocks. A world of a difference. The re-directed attack becomes a useful thing, as opposed to being merely cast aside."

I would say the bong sau can be either a block or a delflection depending on the moment of a fight.

[Andy Murray]

Not upset about it John, it's a bit like saying a jab can be used as an uppercut to use your own terminology. Nothing wrong with it being used this way, but it's not a jab any more is it?

[johndoch]

hmm, if u read the MAP magazine under blocks/bong sau there is reference to the bong sau being called a block as it is in many books.

[Andy Murray]

I shall be having words with our esteemed Editor, though I suspect this was done for ease of general comprehension, and not meant to be taken literally.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[johndoch]

your welcome that why I call it a block. For general comprehension I probably could nt have said it better myself.

[simonlarcombe]

Just a quick note about what I feel I got from Chi Sau.

I did a little Chi Sau with Andy and one of his students over Christmas, probably about 2 hours in total.

I feel I have learnt a lot from just this little amount of time. In fact I would go so far to say that I learnt more in a couple of hours from these guys that I have learnt in weeks from previous instruction.

Since this I've had a few chances to practice what I learnt. And what I've practiced is this...

1. Uprooting my opponent
2. Tricking my opponent into opening a gap
3. Being totally covered from attack
4. Tiring my opponent

I can do all this succesfully against someone of a similar level. Not bad at all from a couple of hours training.

I realise against someone more experienced I would still, probably, not be able to do this... but as I said I haven't done very much yet.

I think the main reason I could learn so fast is from hands on experience with someone very good who could explain why and how he could beat me.

[Phoenix]

To counter a straight blast:

1. Front snap kick to the trunk
2. Spin kick to the trunk
3. Hookkick to the knees
4. Side kick to the knees.

[pgm316]

Unless you stop the momentum first theres a good chance you'll end up going down

[Phoenix]

Just use Backward blast then. Then execute one of the counter attacks.

[Ronin807]

I suggest countering a centerline technique with a centerline technique. I would suggest a combination of the ideas stated previously.Take a second to back away from your opponent taking into account his rythm, he is going to follow you which turns your moment of defense to your advantage. The straight blast is a commited attack, he is commiting himself to following through with several punches, and even if they are fast, it's still only one arm at a time. Slip the jab and deliver your own straight blast in return, you will break your opponents rythm and put yours into place over his. If you have reservations about standing in the way of the barrage give your opponent a reason to stay high with his offense block a punch or two on your way back.. then plant yourself for a second, dip a little to keep your head out of the way as you get your opponent to close the gap and go low with a side kick to his leading leg, unless your fighting an actual gorrila your leg has a further reach than his arm.

[Ronin807]

GGGRRRRRRRR!!!! why do i keep posting on dead threads!!!! blast!!

[Tireces]

To counter a straight blast:
2. Spin kick to the trunk


Spin kick?! You'll get run over while you're doing the spin, and then you'll be in an even worse position! As for my own suggestion, perhaps simply out-footworking the guy by opening a gap, and then get him with a jeet tek or low side-kick if he continues on coming. If he stops when you move off, then at the very least you got him to stop coming it at you, and there's a moment to think. Unless he is breaking stance, a quick backwards push-shuffle into a backwards slidestep will get you out very, very fast. If he is breaking his stance and just charging haphazardly, something of using his energy against him will likely be very useful.

[Ronin807]

Spin kick?! You'll get run over while you're doing the spin, and then you'll be in an even worse position!
I agree, it's never a good thing to expose your back to an opponent who is already on his way through your defense

[keep on flowing]

Hmm....the JKD straight blast is pretty good if you are in the offensive, but what if you are on the recieving end? any suggestions on countering a straight blast?

|Cain|
yea i have a suggestion, you need to crash over his/her line and make them go on the defensive

[jaymdubbs]

with a straight lead blast, i would either slip and hit or reference point it with the good old houbud piece of cake

i just read some more points..... and people are right a spin kick? are you asking for a death wish? why waste the energy when you could just "intercept" the punches?


Multiple posts combined: There's an edit button dude!
..... Yoda