Self Defence Scenario(s)

[Thomas]

The Hapkido section has been a bit quiet lately, so I'd like to propose a self defence scenario to the readers and see how they'd respond:

You are at a local fast food restaurant waiting in line and you are suddenly grabbed from behind… these are the situations:

(1) Someone puts their right arm around your neck from behind in to a kind of loose choke (their forearm is against your windpipe). They have grabbed you fairly loosely and are pulling your backwards.

(2) Same thing but the grab is forceful and they have slipped your chin into the crook of their elbow and are trying to really choke you (and they are breaking your leg down from behind)





(1) turns out to be a buddy of yours fooling around.
(2) turns out to be an angry guy you cut off in traffic who wants to hurt you.

By the way, this is not limited to Hapkido practioners only... please join the fun!

[bigd]

1-IF ITS MY BUDDY,iwould IPPON-SEOI NAGE (one arm shoulder throw) him and laugh at him.

2-now forreal,go for the nutts,a poke in the eye,ubi waza(finger locks)but like you said say im down on a knee,lol but forreal claw at his arm til he lets go,dig your nails deep as hell in his arm,bite him if you can,pinch ,anythingsame for his legs if your on one knee,pinch claw he'll let go,this is called FOUL TACTICS or you can elbow his knee,but back to standing up you can also kick his knee,a stomp on the foot,same as standig up nw you can pinch or claw his sides, his upper legs,i mean your animal do what you got to do ,you get my point,you could do the pinch to one side or both,or go for his nutts and pinch him at the same time,or poke him in the eye,while you pinching and clawing one side,and then grab his nuts i gotta stolp i could go on and on about it.

[bigd]

oh i forgot you can also if you remeber your surroundings,back him up into something, see icant stop

[Hapkido]

1)headbutt him with the back of my head
2)repeatively elbow him in the groin/chest/stomach (whichevers in reach) until his grip begins to weaken. if hes doing the choke with his right arm (everything in reverse if hes doing it with his left), once the grip loosens id grab hold of his wrist and forearm, stick my right leg out and try to roll him off me onto the ground and trip him on my leg, and then break his elbow over my knee when hes on the ground, mount his chest and pound the daylights out of his face until he gives up or passes out

[pgm316]

1)headbutt him with the back of my head
2)repeatively elbow him in the groin/chest/stomach (whichevers in reach) until his grip begins to weaken. if hes doing the choke with his right arm (everything in reverse if hes doing it with his left), once the grip loosens id grab hold of his wrist and forearm, stick my right leg out and try to roll him off me onto the ground and trip him on my leg, and then break his elbow over my knee when hes on the ground, mount his chest and pound the daylights out of his face until he gives up or passes out

Good post!

You could also grab the groin or grab a finger, if you get one the arm will come off easily! :D

[nj_howard]

oh man... usually i'm reluctant to reply to this type of post, because (on other boards) my experience has been that the question is baiting. but, since this board seems a cut above many others, what the devil...

situation 1: you don't really have time to find out who is trying to strangle you, even though you've detected the attack while the strangle is still loose. if you hesitate, you could literally be dead. so assume it's somebody bent on harming you, rather than a buddy (or your brother-in-law, as is often the case in these scenarios).

if he's using his R arm to strangle, cover his R hand with your R hand and jerk it outward (to your R), straightening his arm, as you duck out of the strangle, turning your torso to your R as you come up. continue to pull his R hand to your R until his R arm is straightened across your waist, your R hand around his wrist. apply what we call "wrist breaks elbow" in jungki hapkido (snap his elbow joint with your L live hand, rolling over and down, while your R hand rolls his R hand back and up).

situation 2: first of all, protect your airway by tucking your chin into his forearm, so that he can't continue to cut off your air. if both of your feet are still on the ground, drop yourself into a horse stance as you lock onto his R forearm, rolling both of your hands around his forearm from above. pivoting on the ball of your R foot, step around 180 degrees CW with your L foot, so that you face the attacker and are at his R side (he is at your R). maintaining the hold with both hands on his arm, step thru diagonally (NW) R and, using your shoulder and momentum, drive him down on his back as ou bend downward at the waist. finish appropriately (for example, just drop your L knee right into his ribcage with all of your weight).

this may sound unlikely to work, but you generate a lot of aiki as you turn into the attacker, and this creates backward momentum in him. once that momentum is there, it's relatively easy to take him down. try it in practice - you'll see. if you are the attacker, once the victim spins around to face you, you are quite unbalanced backward.

[Hapkido]

Good post!

You could also grab the groin or grab a finger, if you get one the arm will come off easily! :D
yea but if someone grabs my balls i immediately tense up, i would think by doing this he would only tighten the choke, which is bad. but by repetively elbowing him the quick, intense shots will knock the wind out of him (and naseate (sp?) if its in the groin.)

also, one thing i just noticed, you said "they" are breaking down your legs from behind, are we talking multiple attackers here or is that a simple typo?

[Bob1770]

Well, I'll offer my very green inexperienced resolution to your two what ifs:

1.)You said loose around the windpipe pulling backwards. I would likely use his looseness and backwards motion to drive the back of my head into his face while forcing him even faster into the backwards direction. From there, who knows, a lot of different things could result from my actions, I would have to improvise from there.

2.)I would help him with the leg, dropping both into the splits far enough to grab that leg that is working on taking out my leg. of course grabbing and pulling his leg between mine, dropping him behind me with me on top, and again improvise from that position.

Hey, what were you expecting from a white belt anyway!

[Sonshu]

Been in the first situation

1) Was grabed in a like this in a local club and as a natural reaction I did the IPPON-SEOI NAGE (one arm shoulder throw) it was my mate and I threw him over not too hard as I was unsure if it was a mate or someone who wanted to kick my ass. As he landed he was put into an armlock all as a natural reaction and then whislt he was squelling I realised it was my ex girlfriends brother and helped him up whilst he was winded and in pain in his arm (only shorterm pain from the lock). I brushed him down and said he was a div for doing that to someone but the bouncers came over and it was all sorted before they reached us so it was good.

2) Never happened as if I cut someone up by accident I am pretty ready for them and pay close attention to where they are going or if there following me.

If it did happen and its a live choke I would grab his nackers and pull em up over his head! This should soften it in about 1/2 a second then secure this dude or do a horse bite on his inner thigh if I cant reach the jewels. Or the back headbut one. If he is not taking my balance then I would try for the throw as this works pretty well.

:)

[Thomas]

Great posts, one and all... some of the suggestions I have seen and done and some are new.

I put the two scenarios in partly to illustrate the difference in response... I have been in situation #1 a couple of time and I used a quick hard shoulder throw as well... now my friends know very well not to grab from behind, even if drunk or fooling around! But I do think it shows that we do need to show some restraint in unknown situations.

The second scenario is more difficult because as far as I am concerned a tight grab from behind and someone trying to take me down to a knee or to my butt is asking to get hurt fast and hard.

For me, I think getting a hand in to block or delay the choke and quick reactions really are the key... that is, stopping it before it gets too serious. When we train this in class, we usually work it from various speeds and degrees of completion.




also, one thing i just noticed, you said "they" are breaking down your legs from behind, are we talking multiple attackers here or is that a simple typo?
I was using "they" instead of the longer s/he... and implied a single attacker. But you could add a second attacker coming from the front (or other direction) to make this more fun!


Anyone else like to share (please do)?

[Sonshu]

Using number 2 if there is another attacker coming in from the front then I need to think fast.

I need to put some space between me and him, shoulder throw may take too long here so again the groin ripper - hey its no rules time! :Angel:

Then whilst I am shaking his nackers I can often move to the side picking up the attacker in a side suplex but slamming him into the floor.

This gives me a shield as I am putting the other guy before me and I hope he may have some compassion as I slam his mate to the floor (I am still standing though) and can now deal with the other guy using verbal skills first then posturing and lastly then resort to whoop ass.

:Angel:

[Thomas]

Yeah... I like that!!!!!

[KenpoDavid]

My response to either scenario starts the same, since I won't know it's just a friend until I can see him. Since it is a forearm choke and not using the hands (naked choke?) I can get my hands up to his head. (If he's got his hands on my throat then his elbows will prevent the technique I am about to describe. But that's nto what the original post descrbied...)

I put my left hand across the bridge of his nose and my right behind his head, and twist (pulling my right hand forward) as I shift back with my right foot.

Now, as he comes around and down and can see that it is just my friend so I just drop him on the ground.

Or

Now, as he comes around and down I can see that it is a stranger, I drop him to the ground but I maintain control of his right arm (which was trapped between my left hand and chest as I took him down - try it it isn't obvious but there it is...) Since it's the middle of a fast food joint, I try to put him in a wrist lock, but if that fails then some kicks to the body or head until help arrives or he calms down. If it was a deserted scene and I had no prospect of help or intervention, then instead of a wristlock I break the elbow with a forearm strike as soon as he hits the ground, then maybe strikes to the floating ribs if I think he still needs it...


in our style (CNG's Shaolin Kempo) this is known as "Grab Defense #8"

[nj_howard]

man, how nice... after posting a suggested counter, i kind of ducked for cover, but no flaming at all! no "aw, that technique is crap - you don't know what you're talking about you %$*(!>!!!! people really do play nice on this board. very welcome indeed.

regards, howard

[Thomas]

In scenario #2, let's make the following changes:

You were caught off guard and he has slipped on a pretty good rear choke with his right arm(with your neck in the crook of his elbow) and he is pulling you backwards while using a foot to collapse your knee from behind. (He will attempt to reinforce the choke with the left arm if possible)

He is a wily fellow and has turned his left side into your back with his left leg forward to prevent groin strikes. He has also tucked his head close to the back of your neck to protect his head and eyes... he is locked in close and dangerous!

[Judderman]

Turn your neck to the crook of his elbow and pull down on his arm with both your hands. This should relieve some of the pressure around your neck. A method of escape I've found useful is to drive your body down and outwards. In this scenario you would have stepped out to the right and have your left side against his body whilst being bent over. This opens up groin strikes and possibly other takedowns such as throws, or leg removal. I have to say that I have only used strikes as my grappling is poor. The downside of this is that is works best when you are upright with similar sized opponents and makes you very vulnerable to other attackers. I don't think I would use a set up strike as this could prolong the choke and is exceptionally difficult if someone is close in.

[Judderman]

As for 1) in the first scenario I would take hold of the wrist and spin out in the direction of his elbow (simialr to above), moving the arm to get into an extended wrist lock. This is only if I knew it was a "mate" messing about.

[Sonshu]

Thomas

Not sure if I am getting this one right - he has you in a choke with his right arm and your throat is in the crock of the elbow but his left side is forward. Did you mean his right side ac you would be across his body.

Or am I being a Div?

Let us know and your answer will apear!

[Thomas]

A-ha... I see where the problem is in my explanation. He has you from behind and is locking in a choke while trying to bring you down by collapsing the knee. He expects a groin strike and is pushing is body close to you and turning the hip in to prevent a good groin strike. Granted, if he turns the left in, he will open up the right and vice versa.

Let's assume you try the groin strike but it bounces off a thigh... and the choke is getting tighter...

[Hapkido]

i would attempt to elbow him in the floating rib with my left arm since that side would be kind of sticking out right (unless im picturing it wrong)? if he has me on one knee id try my hardest to get off it and if i could i would do a sort of backwards hook kick to take one of his legs out and then id lay back on him and try to knock him off balance/make him hit the floor with me on top of him. the shock would probably loosen the grip and if im really lucky his head would smash into the hard floor of the fast food restaurant. if he lets go id probably get up and pick up a chair and go WWF on his ass.

[Jointlock]

This is really a tough situation, I think it would depend on if the attacker knew how to choke and could get me off balance enough to where I couldn't do anything. Hopefully I can catch the choke as soon as I'm grabbed the natural reaction for me I've found is to put both hands on top of the attackers forearm. If they're not leaning me back then a shoulder throw or stepping off to the side, behind them, and under the arm are probably the two best defenses.

If they were taking me down and I could hold off their choke with a clear windpipe to breath; I might just let them use up their energy and tire out enough for me to twist out of it. If it seems like a good idea at the time I might just go limp to see if they think they choked me out and loosen their grip. If they make a mistake and I have enough balance to push in a good direction I'm going to go for it. If it's possible I'd try to back him up against a wall so he couldn't push on my lower back as much; this would probably be my defense of choice for two attackers also.

I think that acting quickly and deliberatly during the initial grab is going to be the most important part to surviving this situation.

As for a family member or a friend joking around, I think I would treat it the same way in the beginning, and try to get out as soon as possible.

On a lighter note if I'm in a KFC, I'd probably try to stab them with a spork. :eek:

[Judderman]

Couple of thoughts. Grab as much flesh on the underside of his arm and wrench it, locate a finger or two and break them, fein unconsciousness and hope they loosen the grip, drive knuckle into pressure points of wrist/arm, scrabble around to find his face and gouge or rip something, if in a small space try pushing against a wall with your legs, driving him into the opposite wall, scream for help from your friends?

If the grip is that tight I'm willing to try almost anything!!!

[Capt Ann]

In scenario #2, let's make the following changes:
....
....<skip>
....
He is a wily fellow and has turned his left side into your back with his left leg forward to prevent groin strikes. He has also tucked his head close to the back of your neck to protect his head and eyes... he is locked in close and dangerous!
OK, you guys are being nice, polite, patient, etc., so I'll try.

This is a defense technique from a non-submission fighter, with very little training in throws and joint locks, who knows your basic kick/scream/bite/scratch/blind-panic defense style, plus some TKD:

I would turn into his elbow, reach up with my right hand and jam two or three fingers straight up into his nose, then wrench my hand up and back (ripping off his nose, or a good part of his face). Hopefully, that would loosen the grip enough to escape, or at least turn and go for the standard groin kick/run.

(Personally, I like the spork idea :D )

[Hapkido]

if its early in the morning id try to find a cup of coffee to splash in his face

[hedgehogey]

[I]

(1) Someone puts their right arm around your neck from behind in to a kind of loose choke (their forearm is against your windpipe). They have grabbed you fairly loosely and are pulling your backwards.

Sink chin, raise shoulders, etc. The grab is loose, so all I need to do is turn towards him and shoot a double leg.


(2) Same thing but the grab is forceful and they have slipped your chin into the crook of their elbow and are trying to really choke you (and they are breaking your leg down from behind)

This is close to an RNC, so use any of the many bjj escapes. Granby roll and ippon seoi nage come to mind.
Of course this depends on the type of choke. An air choke is no threat, while a blood choke very much is.





(1) turns out to be a buddy of yours fooling around.
(2) turns out to be an angry guy you cut off in traffic who wants to hurt you.

By the way, this is not limited to Hapkido practioners only... please join the fun![/QUOTE]

[Thomas]

Great stuuf everyone... by the way, if you are having trouble coming up with solutions, take this into school and get a buddy to work on it with you... does your technique work?

[Sonshu]

Right

Now I know what I am up againt some options for you all are?

1) Take a sacrifice throw doing a single arm throw but you need to take the offending arm with you

2) Take the offending arm into an figure 4 arm lock and take him down - this is pretty easy.

3) Not a great one but possible rush back to knock him over - he will most likely cushion your fall.

4) Back head but to give you another shot at his knackers

5) Skin grab on the thigh meat - Hurts a lot! :D

6) Take his hair and try to control him with this perhaps his pain threshold is not too good, not a great option but it may work in the desperate option.

7) Take back of his leg and lift to try to take his balance.

Just a few openers for you.

[Thomas]

I really like options 1,4 and 5 a lot and have used them. My only hesitation on #1 is that I don't want the chance of ending up on the ground with him... but if you throw him hard enough you may stun him.

[nj_howard]

Right
5) Skin grab on the thigh meat - Hurts a lot! :D

you'd best believe it! a very effective, nasty little trick to use in many situations. try pinching just a very small fold of skin on the inner thigh. it's excruciating.

[Sonshu]

I don't think I would need a sacrifice throw due my my size and strength but you can do it with the sacrifice part and only go down to 3 limbs like the Chinese arts Cat stance (I think thats what its called).

This alows you to pop up un well under a second. The throw can be done with no sacrifice part but the problem is if the guy is big and in this instance controlling your balance you may need the extra power to control him and bring him down.

I personally like option 2 as its pretty easy.

[Thomas]

I really like the figure 4 lock but must admit that it's "one of those techniques" that I sometimes muff... therefore don't use as much (hmmm...maybe if I used it more I might.)

Okay, since I am not the type to look for answer and open people up to criticism without taking part, here are my responses. (By the way, thanks to all who played nice, shared and read everyone else's)

(1) (Friend) - One arm shoulder throw, usually trying to maintain the arm so that when they hit I can wrap up and arm lock... or a more viscious throw and discard... especially if they may have buddies. I don't care if youb are a friend or not, if you grab my from behind I will dump you hard.
Alternatively, I do like the "grab the hand and step out to put them into a standing arm bar or wrist lock (a "gooseneck" is possible on a loose hand as well.

(2) Hard attack + tight choke +attempt to take me down
Response #1 - Most important: get a hand/wrist/arm into the inner forearm or hand to take pressure off the choke. Strike groin or midsection with elbow (if possible). Maintaining tight distance turn outward, pushing opponents arm into their chest, opposite hand grabs their wrist and pushes straight back... from here either go into a joint lock takedown (like a figure 4) or a hard sweep or short knee strikes to inner thighs +sweep or when you peel the opponent off, grab a finger and as you turn outside close to the body spin and use your other hand to grab their throat by reaching around behind their neck (escort technique)

Response #2 - If he manages to take me down, the most important aspects for me is to get something in to alleviate pressure (see bold above) and to remain calm. If he gets me down, I will use all of the skin grabs and strikes I can and attempt to turn towards his inside area and try to strike vital areas there. However I must remember to protect my head and neck so that he can switch his rear grab to a front (guillotine) or face lock. My main objective from here is getting back to my feet or if he has buddies, keeping his body between their boots and my body!


Keep them coming everyone... it's really nice to hear different responses (and not just Hapkido)

[Thomas]

Here it is:
You've been grabbed from behind in a choke and the bad guy (lady) has used their foot to break down your knee from behind, dropping you square on your butt with a pretty good choke locked on... the bad guy may have buddies but they are holding off for now.

[KenpoDavid]

Here it is:
You've been grabbed from behind in a choke and the bad guy (lady) has used their foot to break down your knee from behind, dropping you square on your butt with a pretty good choke locked on... the bad guy may have buddies but they are holding off for now.

his face and arms are still in the same position relative to yours, is he kneeling as well? One knee? on his feet?

[Thomas]

his face and arms are still in the same position relative to yours, is he kneeling as well? One knee? on his feet?

S/he has dropped to one knee, with the bent knee in the middle of your back and the other leg back and out of the way (for stability). The armn is still around your neck and s/he has probably reinforced it. Their head however is now peeking over yours (although s/he is trying to tuck it behind yours).

[Sonshu]

Here you are getting in dangerious ground as if he is good at doing a choke you are pretty much lights out and time is not on your side.

If the face is about I will gab an ear and pull it as hard and fast as I can - this really does HURT. With my other hand I will try to work the fingers so I can get some space to breath, aiming to bend or break a finger and if that split second is free bit a huge chunk of his arm and I mean to the bone as this is a severe attack on me.

First chance I get though is up on feet turning to face the person. I may depending on how with it I am swing a kick at him for luck as I have an idea of where his head is.

Desperate moves for a desperate situation because with an avarage choke by jo blogs give it 6-8 seconds and your asleep so you MUST free that choke.

I chose to avoid the groin option as this was the last one I used against the other attack senario you posted. Also the eyes are hard to do damage to in that position for any kung fu person who may thing so you can not get and purchase when there behind you on the floor to do damage and this I feel is what you need - hence ear!

My option of the top of my head.

[Sonshu]

Thomas

The figure 4 is well worth trying, as you use 2 arms to apply it both arms need to be in play.

There is an Ninjitsu adaptation that can be done with one arm but its much harder to do from the position you have described and 2 handed version IMO is better.

[mike-IHF]

reply,

The main thing I feel to this scenario is to be aware of your surroundings in the first place. I mean if someone is able to come up from behind you, and put you in that position without you feeling them, or seeing them. Than you pretty much deserve it. If the person was not able to get you in that position in the first place, than there would be no need to do anything. "namaste"

[Thomas]

Awareness and avaoidance aside, the premise of this thread is that the situations in the original post have occurred. What would your reaction be if they did happen? Thanks

[Sonshu]

Some times we can mess up and get caught in an enviroment we may feel comfortable in. When I am in a club I don't go into over-watch I just enjoy myself.

A balance between not being parranoid and being observant. Still we can all get caught so it is 100% possible this attack could happen to us and hence its all harmless banter on line but I do find from MAP that I try stuff out people say and give feedback to it.

[nj_howard]

A balance between not being parranoid and being observant. Still we can all get caught so it is 100% possible this attack could happen to us and hence its all harmless banter on line but I do find from MAP that I try stuff out people say and give feedback to it.

very good point. plus, nice way to approach the suggested counters above...

[Thomas]

Sonshu: I have worked the figure 4 quite a bit (we see it quite a bit in the Combat Hapkido), but it just seems to be "one of those techniques" that doesn't quite work for me as well. Granted, I love to use it following a hard throw (or even hip toss) when I still have the arm and it's bent! A reinforced figure 4 can work very well. I've been working on it for the past while (as well as the goose neck... great when applied but sometimes slippery to get it on.)

By the way, nice point on the being caught unawares idea. I ended up in a scuffle a few years ago. A drunk guy was questioning my paratrooper background in a pretty rude way... we had a decent chat (and his large group of buddies) and ended up having some drinks together. After I left and went back to my table he came over with a full beer and a big smile... only to throw the beer at my eyes and go for a tackle!

[Sonshu]

Nice

Gotta love the trailer park guys! - Its true it can happen to us all hence a multiple attacker point that is good to use is enguage them with a dub question. "Sorry mate can't hear you" when he focus's on his witty insult then BANG!

He is ass up on the floor.

Cheap but it works!

[God]

in scenario 1 i would immediately turn my head to dig my chin in beneath their arm. i don't want them to get their arm under my chin because then they can choke me. at that point, i would step out behind him and pinch the back of his leg or crotchpunch or something to that effect.

in scenario 2 i would shout "help" first of all as a method of breath control and reach back with my hands to choke him. if i could fiddle around, i would do the amo passo thrusting collar choke or if i couldn't i would do that cross-thumb strangle until he lets go. i would probably couple that with thrashing, stepping on the feet, hammerfist to the groin, whatever i could do at the time.

[Thomas]

Good stuff everyone! For me personally, this is one of the scariest encounters.. from the loss of breathing to the unknown (unseen opponent)... and I really don't have a lot of mercy for an attack from the rear.

What I've really liked about this thread so far is that most of the techniques that have come up are things that I have seen in local (and some far away) schools... probably the old "you can only things in so many ways" idea.

Keep them coming and thank you!

[Kosh]

The move we have learnt for this situation is:-

You can loosen them up with whatever...groin hits etc if needs be.

You pull their left neck-shoulder pressure point with you left hand and simultaneously push the inside of their right knee (again a pressure point) while kind of turning your weight round.

If they are more solid you can grab their ear / hair or even hook the inside of their cheek - messy but very effective

They end up on the floor with your knee on their ribs.

Theres a VERY important thing to remember though, which is to rotate you head left so you dont get choked so easily.

Do you know this move?

[BackFistMonkey]

a little late in the game here :( ... but I like these scenarios alot ...

# 1 : For myself being male and assuming I know its a friend ( or sister/brother in law )I would scream " Rape!!! OH CHRIST NO !!! RAPE!!! DONT TOUCH ME THERE RAAAAPE !!!!!! " at the top of my lungs and run away from him/her covering my groin and butt and go sit in the car . There by leaving him/her in a resturant surrounded by people who think ... you know I am gonna leave that one hanging ... on what people would think ... but the more convincing you are the more serious lesson your friend learns ...:D

# 2 : KIA!!!!while you stomp with the heel of your right foot dragging down the front of the shin of his/her right leg ending on top of the attachers foot over the arch , continue stomp until you reach whatever country is opposit of you on the globe and grind with your heel , hopefully crushing his arch ,place foot on the inside of his/her faltering stance then raise your heel ,bending at the knee, straight up behind you into your attackers groin .Simultaniously grab his/her handy little fingers and apply the fulcrum ( or any other finger/wrist lock you KNOW WELL )as his/her hand spasms from the groin/foot destruction .Turn to the right controlling the attacker with the lock and attack the side of your attackers weakend right leg at the knee with a thrusting front kick or side kick angled a little down , even a roundhouse would work it depends on your angle of attack just , attack and break the knee... ... This is as far as I would plan becouse after this point things either go well, are already over or its going to get real crazy ...

post note : the shin scrape works best when you have boots on ... but works even when your barefoot try it :love: it takes a little practice but its FUN !! ... and the heel to the groin can be substituted with a left hand or elbow strike if you have short legs or your attacker is much taller ...

remeber soft tissue targets RULE !! give them lots of attention with deep :love: twisting motions :Angel: and usualy things work themselves out ...

oh yeah ... did I mention I was taking Hapkido becouse I want to learn how not to destroy someone but to safely disable them with confidence while retaining the ability to QUICKLY end a situation .