Stepping Up

[K93200]

HEY HEY!

I just started studying about Jeet Kune Do. and so far I've been putting in some techniques from Judo, Karate, Jiu Jitsu, Taekwondo, and HwaRangDo. I'm still new with some things about Jet Kune Do like being in a relaxed state and being flexible while calm, can any of the pros here give me some tips so I can handle myself well in a fight.

[YODA]

Which JKD school are you attending?

[K93200]

Which JKD school are you attending?
Oh I'm not at a school what I'm doing is the bruce lee method from his book, where he says take what is useful and go from there

[YODA]

Ah - I can't help you then.

JKD is not about learning from books - find a legitimate club and we'll talk.

[K93200]

Ah - I can't help you then.

JKD is not about learning from books - find a legitimate club and we'll talk.


:eek:

[Saz]

You can't learn swimming from a book. You need to get wet.

You can't learn to operate a car from a book. You need to drive it.

You can't learn MA from a book. You need to TRAIN!

Now stop making :o simleys when someone posts common sense and get your ass into a class!

[YODA]

You can't learn swimming from a book. You need to get wet.

You can't learn to operate a car from a book. You need to drive it.

You can't learn MA from a book. You need to TRAIN!

Now stop making :o simleys when someon posts common sense and get your ass into a class!
Awe come on Kgirl - stop beating around the bush. Tell him what you think.

:eek:

[dustIn credible]

^ thats just their opinions there are others. I believe in books and videos but u need some hands on training first and a sparring partner. If JKD is a concept like many say it is how can you be taught a concept? How can one show someone how to be an individual?

[YODA]

^ thats just their opinions there are others. I believe in books and videos but u need some hands on training first and a sparring partner.
Sure - books and videos can be a great aid to learning in addition to being taught by an instructor


If JKD is a concept like many say it is how can you be taught a concept? How can one show someone how to be an individual?
Easy - here are some examples of concepts in JKD...

Economy of motion
5 Ways of attack
Centerline theory
Multi-cultural perspectives
Attribute over technique
....and more

All can be and are taught.

[Tireces]

Remember the tao of the tao of jeet kune do? I've finished it! But as it turns out, it's not a guide to whacking people with the book, it's actually a book that tells people how to learn from the original tao of JKD book, because some folks seem to need it!

[LS]

What book are you referring to? I might try and fish out where that quote was said. Because last I checked JKD was something other than that. But there's no shame in doing your own thing, that's your own thing, not JKD (gee sound like I'm repeating myself, if I am, someone whack me with something (now I want something honorable here) )

[Jody Butt]

You can't learn swimming from a book. You need to get wet.

You can't learn to operate a car from a book. You need to drive it.

You can't learn MA from a book. You need to TRAIN!

Now stop making :o simleys when someone posts common sense and get your ass into a class!

You can learn to swim from reading a book, and then getting in the water.

You can learn to drive a car by reading a book, and then getting in.

You can learn a martial art by reading a book, and then practicing the techniques.

Bruce Lee, himself, said that he couldn't teach anyone JKD. He could only guide you. There is no one true way to counter an attack. The JKD of someone with an aikido background and the JKD of someone with a boxing background will look quite different. They will respond to attacks entirely differently. Yet, they are both using their respective, unique formless forms.

"Jeet Kune Do is the art not founded on techniques or doctrines. It is just as you are" -- Bruce Lee

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Straight from the horses's mouth. No techniques. No doctrine. Just you.

[LS]

sigh.... then how come there are references to certain punches? Straight Lead, Lead Hook, etc.. References to kicks? Side, Hook, etc ? footwork ? step slide, push shuffle, etc, certain principles? strong side forward, efficiency in movement, etc ??? I'm not going to give anything away. I will not cater to those that don't want to put in the hard work of actually training and honing their tools. I will not cater to the charlatans and armchair JKDers because they whine and dine about too tough of a journey Because when Bruce talked about the success is in you , it really is in you.. that much I can only tell you. As Bruce put, if knowledge is power, why hand it out indiscriminantly?

another thing about that talk about bruce guiding you. yeah that's right HE himself, the individual has to guide you.. not some book .. you may accumulate some knowledge, but learning goes far deeper than accumulation

put it this way, after having some experience in actually training JKD, my view of it has changed drastically.

[Andy Murray]

You can learn to swim from reading a book, and then getting in the water.

Drown?

You can learn to drive a car by reading a book, and then getting in.
Crash!

You can learn a martial art by reading a book, and then practicing the techniques.
Uh Uh, painting by numbers baby!

[Cain]

You can learn to swim from reading a book, and then getting in the water.

I highly doubt that mate, ;)

|Cain|

[Jody Butt]

I highly doubt that mate, ;)

|Cain|

I did. I'm not great. I taught myself a few strokes.

Taught myself how to drive, too. My friend already had his license for one year, so we went out in his car all the time.

[Cain]

Must.remember.I.am.a.mod.and.resist.ultimate.sarca sm!!! :rolleyes:

|Cain|

[Tireces]

I did. I'm not great. I taught myself a few strokes.

Can you even hold a candle to someone who's actually been taught? Probably not. If you read a book and try to teach yourself some fighting, can you hold a candle to someone who's spent the same time and effort actually being taught? Probably not.

Taught myself how to drive, too. My friend already had his license for one year, so we went out in his car all the time.

See emphasized word. By the way, your friend must be one brave and/or friendly guy to jeopardize his license like that.

[Jody Butt]

Can you even hold a candle to someone who's actually been taught? Probably not. If you read a book and try to teach yourself some fighting, can you hold a candle to someone who's spent the same time and effort actually being taught? Probably not.



See emphasized word. By the way, your friend must be one brave and/or friendly guy to jeopardize his license like that.

I never aspired to be a great swimmer. Just the basics.

I don't know how the law works where you are, but, where I live, this is legal as long as one person has had his license for over a year.

[Tireces]

Where I live, you not only need a learner's permit for that, but the person with the license is also considered responsible for your actions. Which means if you make a boo-boo, he's in deep poo-poo.

[dustIn credible]

can you learn from a book? this arguement has been done to death.

some people can learn from books some cant
the rest are just opinions

[Maximicus]

Can you learn from a book? Sure, but you need something OUTSIDE of the book too.

You can learn the basic concepts of swiming from a book, understand all the diferent kinds of strokes, and know all about swimming. But if you then jump in the deep end at your pool, your going to get a big surprise! You read a book, but you can only swim by slowly getting your body used to swimming! Same with MA!

[Andrew Green]

People teach themselves how to do things all the time.

How many skateboarders have coaches?

How many kids learn to play street hockey without a coach?

Basketball?

Tennis?

You could learn the basics, start playing, and as you go pick up books and videos to add to your knowledge and improve your game. Could probably get pretty good too.

It is possible to teach yourself martial arts. But you need people to train with. You need experience, and chances are it will be much slower progress then if you did have a coach.

Whether or not you can teach yourself JKD, and use that name is a rather funny question that really doesn't have an answer. Some will say you can, others will say you can't. But without that lineage and that paper trail, why bother using that name, will cause much more trouble then it's worth :D

[Maximicus]

I agree Andrew, the thing is MA is a 2 player (minimum) game. And if you don't know what your doing weel enough look for ALOT of pain.

[Andrew Green]

I agree Andrew, the thing is MA is a 2 player (minimum) game. And if you don't know what your doing weel enough look for ALOT of pain.
Yep, not a safe one if you try doing things you shouldn't.

But, that doesn't mean it can't be done, and done safely.

[bigd]

look before you can ever thinking about learning from a book you better get alot of training after that then youll be alright,see after you have a good year or two of training,you can get a book and have a better understanding of it,but just picking it up and thinking your go;ing to be able to be great,sorry.get training first.

[Maximicus]

Yeah, Bruce Lee trained in Wing Chun for years before making JKD. WC and Jun Fan JKD (the wat Bruce practiced it) are alot different, but Bruce couldn't have done it without that understanding he got from WC.

[Jody Butt]

Where I live, you not only need a learner's permit for that, but the person with the license is also considered responsible for your actions. Which means if you make a boo-boo, he's in deep poo-poo.

Not so, here.

[Andrew Green]

Not so, here.
You still need learners licenses in Alberta.

It's a class 7.

http://www3.gov.ab.ca/gs/services/mv/operator.cfm#LicenceClasses

[Jody Butt]

You still need learners licenses in Alberta.

It's a class 7.

http://www3.gov.ab.ca/gs/services/mv/operator.cfm#LicenceClasses

Yeah, that's what I mean. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[YODA]

Whether or not you can teach yourself JKD, and use that name is a rather funny question that really doesn't have an answer. Some will say you can, others will say you can't. But without that lineage and that paper trail, why bother using that name, will cause much more trouble then it's worth :D
Ah - JKD :p

Why bother with that name? Because sadly it SELLS!

[Tireces]

And it gives you credentials to throw a hissy fit whenever people are talking about JKD as anything but a "loose set of philosophies" in the JKD forum! Don't forget that!

[Zazen]

I am of the Opinion you can learn a great deal from books, as long as you apply it. I believe some people are more adapt at learning from books than others. However, knowledge is knowledge no matter how you learn it.

Some seem to think that no one can teach themselves anything, However, Bruce himself was a very self-taught individual. He had some formal training in Wing Chun, and a little Tai Chi from his dad but thats about it. He learned alot on his own and had a personal library of thousands of books.

Another example is a UFC champ named Mark Weir. To quote himself "I am self taught, know one can claim that they have taught me for this game or actually tutored me for this game. So it's like I am unpredictable, unorthodox and no one knows what I am going to pull."

Point is you can learn alot on your own. You can also learn alot from books. The main thing is you take a relistic approach and put into practice what you have learned.

[Tireces]

I'm sure if you asked mister weir how he went about teaching himself how to fight, it had less to do with reading and more to do with hard-testing himself constantly through sparring, in which case I have to completely disagree with his statement. He's been taught a little something by every person he's sparred with, and every person he's fought in octagon fights.

[YODA]

One win followed by two loses does not a UFC champ make :rolleyes:

BTW - his background is TKD.

[Yukimushu]

HEY HEY!

I just started studying about Jeet Kune Do. and so far I've been putting in some techniques from Judo, Karate, Jiu Jitsu, Taekwondo, and HwaRangDo. I'm still new with some things about Jet Kune Do like being in a relaxed state and being flexible while calm, can any of the pros here give me some tips so I can handle myself well in a fight.

Without getting pulled into this ever changing debate, i'd say that if you feel your learning something from books, continue to do so... you've got my vote :)

[K93200]

Without getting pulled into this ever changing debate, i'd say that if you feel your learning something from books, continue to do so... you've got my vote :)
um cool ok thanks ^-^

[LS]

How far are you from Pittsburgh ? there's a JKD instructor under Ted Wong. If he's not too far, I'd suggest you go there instead of looking for signs of justification for your book training venture. You said you wanted to study JKD, well here is your opportunity to actually do so.

[jaymdubbs]

hey man, just dont forget, JKD is not just mixing different styles together. you cant take TKD, karate, judo, etc throw them all together, mix andmatch techniques and call it jkd (many people THINK you can) . that is NOT jkd. theres so much more to JKD then techniques you use.

2 words of advice

find an instructor (see what kind of lineage he/she has to bruce or dan or wong before u decide to attend his/her class)


the biggest secret i can give you is to just keep on flowing

[Andrew Green]

I always find it amazing how JKD people get so caught up in lineage and certification.... yet Bruce spent so much time saying that stuff didn't matter...

[Guitarboy1212]

I never aspired to be a great swimmer. Just the basics.

I don't know how the law works where you are, but, where I live, this is legal as long as one person has had his license for over a year.

i wish i lived in canada

[dustIn credible]

I always find it amazing how JKD people get so caught up in lineage and certification.... yet Bruce spent so much time saying that stuff didn't matter...


^ if that isnt sticked is should be

[jaymdubbs]

i only posted about the lineage because of some the bogus instructors.

and besides, id rather be "guided" on my "journey" by someone who has the best training in jun fan and jkd possible

i would only inquire about the lineage for reputation. there was an official JKD group that tried to put of business bogus JKD schools that had no formal lineage to bruce and Jun fan. there are certain concepts and philosophies associated with jun fan and jkd that only true jkd instructors can teach.

so if you want to say lineage isnt important, then have fun learning JKD from a guy from a guy from a guy who thinks JKD is "this" or "that".

[Andrew Green]

Lineage is a product, it can be sold. The more value it is percieved to have the more you can sell it for. Even well known, reputable instructors sell it. Train with me, for 10 hours, pay me a big check and I will certify you. Not exagerrated at all.

Lineage does not represent skill, knowledge or teaching ability. It represents lineage, that is all. Personally I am more interested in the other 3.

[jaymdubbs]

depends on who the instructor is. i am fortunate enough to have a teacher that has all three of those qualities, and charges me NOTHING but my time and respect.

lineage can be a product. i totally agree with you. some people charge enormous amounts of money that are just ridiculous. but in order for it to be jun fan jkd there HAS to be lineage. there is no denying it. i agree with you it is not the most important, but it should be issue when a person is deciding a JKD school. thats all i was tryin to say.

[K93200]

depends on who the instructor is. i am fortunate enough to have a teacher that has all three of those qualities, and charges me NOTHING but my time and respect.

lineage can be a product. i totally agree with you. some people charge enormous amounts of money that are just ridiculous. but in order for it to be jun fan jkd there HAS to be lineage. there is no denying it. i agree with you it is not the most important, but it should be issue when a person is deciding a JKD school. thats all i was tryin to say.
oh easy guys i din't mean for anybody to start getting into an argument, I guess I could start going to JKD school instead of reading the instructions from bruce's book, my fault , so far almost every post i've made gets people in a bunch of arguments

[Yukimushu]

One win followed by two loses does not a UFC champ make :rolleyes:

BTW - his background is TKD.

Mark Weir was great too watch at Pain & Glory though! :D No matter how many losses or wins, he's still great too watch.

But admittedly, he isn't a UFC champ :)

[Tireces]

I always find it amazing how JKD people get so caught up in lineage and certification.... yet Bruce spent so much time saying that stuff didn't matter...

I don't think Bruce really was anticipating for JKD to really become any sort of widely-taught thing.

[Andrew Green]

Of course not, "free yourself from conformity, tradition and lineage" somehow ended up "Do exactly what Bruce did and have the paper trail to back it"

[Jody Butt]

Of course not, "free yourself from conformity, tradition and lineage" somehow ended up "Do exactly what Bruce did and have the paper trail to back it"

So true, so true.

These people say, "You've gotta follow Bruce's basic teachings on techniques", and such things.

Such people would do well to heed Bruce's words on JKD:

"Jeet Kune Do is the art not founded on techniques, or doctrines. It is just as you are." -- Bruce Lee

[LS]

well when you had all these fakes running around back then, lineage became important. Also the material taught had to be important. And why make such a big fuss over the use of lineage? if anything Bruce's line is the easiest to trace, no biggie. Again I will not give anymore insight to Bruce's notes. . those that wish to dream what they meant, go ahead and do so, that's their perrogative, no one's stopping them. For those that will put in the hard work and actually train in JKD, you will then find the insights that I'm talking about, if not you've already found them.

As bruce put it, since people like to toss quotes around, "only one in 10,000 can do my art" or "you either get it or you don't" .. it's not all that hard , but it's not all that easy.. gotta do the hardwork then the dividends will come.

[jaymdubbs]

well,

ive discovered that lineage isnt as important as i thought. I supposedly met someone who "had a lineage", making him a so called "3rd generation", and he didnt seem to follow his own words. sure, he taught pad work, etc. he supposedly taught "original" jkd and jkd "concepts" but i saw very little of this in his few classes i attended.

so i proved myself wrong, lineage isnt everything. sorry for what i said earlier guys.