Krishna and Jesus

[blessed_samurai]

Some interesting thoughts on the parallels between Krishna and Jesus:

To being, it may be helpful to sketch briefly teh story of Krishna as he is known by Hindus. The earliest reference to him is found in the Chandogya Upanishad (sixth century B.C.E.), where he is mentioned as a student of philosphy (III.17.6). In the Mahabharata (5th century B.C.E.) he is portrayed as a tribal hero; in the Bhagavad-Gita (2nd century B.C.E., as God incarnate who instructs Arjuna and, through him, all humankind. Our earliest source of his childhood is found in the Vishnu Purana (5th century C.E.)...the list goes on.
From this vast array of literature covering several centuries emerge three kirshnas, or rather three aspects of the one Krishna of the Hindus: the trival hero, the God incarnate, and the Krishna of the Puranas, which tell of his life in Gokula as the divine child, the young herdsman, and the endearing lover. The three aspects of his character are cumulative, not discrete, for each aspect melts into the other. As a hero he met the worshiper's need for a divine father; as a young herdsman, for a divine lover; and as a child, for a son.
Intriguing is the fact that nativity stories of Krishna and Jesus are alike in many ways. Just as Nanda came with Yashoda to Mathura to pay tribute, so Joseph came with Mary to Bethlehem to be taxed (Lk. 2:1-6; Bhagavata Purana, X.5; Vishnu Purana, V.e, V.6). In both cases a star portends a miraculous birth, and that birth comes int eh middle of the night as an evil king sleeps (Mt. 1:18-25; Lk. 1:26-38; Bhagavata Purana, X.3). The cruel king Kamsa has his parallel in Herod, and in both caes there is a massacre of infants when the kings awakens (Mt. 2:14-16; Bhagavata Purana, X.4, X.6; Vishnu Purana, V.4). As wise men came to see Krishna, so wise men came to see infatn Jesus; heavenly musicians rained down songs of praise, just as Bethlehem's shepards were startled by the angels' glorias (Mt. 2:9-12; Lk. 2:8-20; Bhagavata Purana X.2, X.3; Vishnu Purana, V.2. V.3). The flight to Braj is similar to the flight into Egypt; in Braj, as in Israel, the parents were forewarned to take their child away to a place that lay safely beyond the despot's reach (Mt. 2:13-15; Bhagavata Purana, X.3; Vishnu Purana, V.1, V.3, V.5). Thus, Krishna's identity was hidden as he began his life in Braj, must as that of Jesus was concealed by the stables of Bethlehem and carpenters' stalls of Nazareth (Mt. 2:19-23).
The new wave of biblical scholarship points in an analogous direction with respect to Jesus. The story of his life and teachings is found in four gospels, not to mention the many Epistles were written by various authors. It is true that no serious scholar today doubts his existence, yet the Gospels, even conservatives would admit, are documents of faith molded by the needs of the early Christians to interpret the Christ-even rather than efforts to offer a literal, chronological account for what Jesus actually said and did. Understandably, many Christians now put more emphasis on the meaning and spirituality of the Jesus-story than Christians did in the past and as Hindus do with respect to Krishna.
In any event, in attempting a comparison of Krishna and Jesus, it is immaterial whether the Krishna of teh Bhagavad-Gita is a historical figure or not. The essential point is that this scripture articulates the Hindu recognition of Krishna as God. This recognition merits a comparison between him and Jesus in the New Testament.

I have lots more but I think this is good for now. I may when I am done with this go through this again with the comparison in Buddha (who knows what an insane mind will decide to do). I have made sure to add the intext citations for all those who wish to look it up on your own. If you're Christian and frowning about this...remember, Milton said: "An untested faith is not faith at all." This is not so much as to debate any religious point, but to see what everyone thinks.

[timmeh!]

Have you read any Carlos Casteneda books?

Just interested, not because I think he's a messiah in any way shape or form though....

[blessed_samurai]

Have you read any Carlos Casteneda books?

Just interested, not because I think he's a messiah in any way shape or form though....

No, sure haven't. Lately I haven't had time to read anything but what pertains to my schooling.

[Vanir]

Would you say it's possible both tales may relate to a much earlier parable, described by alternate and subsequent cultural developments?

The earliest historical reference of which I am aware, relating to "man-god" is the rise of Pharaonic Egypt out of seminal cultism some 6,500 years ago. It shortly predates the development of civilization in the Mesopotamian region and anywhere else in the world.

[shunyadragon]

I believe that Krishna, Buddha, Zoraster and Christ all have similarities and are messiahs in their own time and place, but unfortunately over time their message has been corrupted and molded into the images of vain believers. Linguistics and cultural differences of course make it more difficult to understand their message.

[simonlarcombe]

If you're interested in this type of stuff; like common threads between religions, philosophies and mythology, and where they have gone astray in some places etc. check out some stuff by Alan Watts.

[shunyadragon]

If you're interested in this type of stuff; like common threads between religions, philosophies and mythology, and where they have gone astray in some places etc. check out some stuff by Alan Watts.

I have read almost all of Alan Watts works when I was young and found him to be a frustrated eccumentalist that switched back and forth between Christianity and Buddhism. Near his death he claimed to know the answer, but died before he had a chance to tell anyone.

[simonlarcombe]

The lectures I have heard show a great depth of knowledge into many different approaches.

My personal opinion is that he was more fond of Zen and Taoism.

He certainly wasn't a follower of Christianity in the sense that any church I have ever seen follow, although he did see some truth in the things that Christ actually said.

You might also say that he followed the Hindu religion, he also mentions this quite a lot.

My experience of his talks tells me that he tried to find the truth and remove the fluff from everything he learnt, he also highlights some interesting metaphores (which is basically what they all are) linking them together.

[shunyadragon]

The lectures I have heard show a great depth of knowledge into many different approaches.

My personal opinion is that he was more fond of Zen and Taoism.

He certainly wasn't a follower of Christianity in the sense that any church I have ever seen follow, although he did see some truth in the things that Christ actually said.

You might also say that he followed the Hindu religion, he also mentions this quite a lot.

My experience of his talks tells me that he tried to find the truth and remove the fluff from everything he learnt, he also highlights some interesting metaphores (which is basically what they all are) linking them together.

Yes all this is true. I did learn a lot from Allan. He showed some insights into the relationships between Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism and Christianity. Putting his writtings, lecures, notes and reflections from those that knew him together in sequence you can find a distinct pattern. He had hoped to achieve a following for a East/West eccumentalism movement between Christiantiy and Eastern beliefs. But neither side would give on basic theological differences as he went back and forth trying bring a following together. toward the end of his life some from both sides challenged him on his views and asked him to take a stand. This challenge was particullarly strong from his Christian brethern.

[simonlarcombe]

Well, at the end of the day, from what I have gathered so far... all the approaches seem to have some truth, and it now seems reasonably straightforward why things were put in a certain way. In order to gather people you need to convince the crowd. Like a finger pointing at the moon hey lol.

Remove the fluff :)

[shunyadragon]

Well, at the end of the day, from what I have gathered so far... all the approaches seem to have some truth, and it now seems reasonably straightforward why things were put in a certain way. In order to gather people you need to convince the crowd. Like a finger pointing at the moon hey lol.

Remove the fluff :)

Fluff is Duff. It eventually blows away in the wind.

Another thing happened with Watts is his views distanced him from the main line beliefs of both Christianity and the Eastern Religions over time. He ended up with a following of mainly Aquarian New Agers and drug scene was the in thing. He unfortunately got involved.

[Vanir]

Near his death he claimed to know the answer, but died before he had a chance to tell anyone.
What answer?






What was the question?

[shunyadragon]

What answer?

What was the question?

In the last months of his life he seemed to focus on Taoism as the source of the answer to the conflict between East and West. The answer he alluded to was that the west must understand the message of Lao Tze. He was writing 'Tao: The Watercourse Way at the time. The last two chapters of the book were never finished. His close associate Chung-liang Huang tried to finiish the work, but not being able to make sense of the notes of the last two chapters, published his last work incomplete.

[Nightstrike]

There is But ONE Christ.
Also, remember what Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me."

[shunyadragon]

There is But ONE Christ.
Also, remember what Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me."

Pull the string and the recording plays. Nothing constructive toward a debate.

[Kwajman]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to deep to get into very far. But I find it interesting that most major religions have an entity that are really very similar in many different ways.

[Vanir]

to the conflict between East and West.
The Cold War?

[shunyadragon]

The Cold War?

No, the root of all conflict. The spiritual and phillisophical differences between the east and the west.

[Vanir]

spiritual and phillisophical differences
Sort of like the spiritual and philosophical differences between the East and the East...like China and Japan for example?

[shunyadragon]

No, the root of all conflict. The spiritual and phillisophical differences between the east and the west.

Buddhist/Taoist vs. Judeo/Christian

[Vanir]

Sort of like Buddhist/Taoist vs. Shinto and Judaeo/Christian vs. Muslim and both Judaeo/Christian and Muslim vs. "Pagan" (defined in Germanic/Old English as meaning "anything which is neither Christian nor Muslim" in belief)? Oh and also sort of like Hinduism vs. everybody? Or Protestant vs. Catholic?


Just curious.

[shunyadragon]

Sort of like Buddhist/Taoist vs. Shinto and Judaeo/Christian vs. Muslim and both Judaeo/Christian and Muslim vs. "Pagan" (defined in Germanic/Old English as meaning "anything which is neither Christian nor Muslim" in belief)? Oh and also sort of like Hinduism vs. everybody? Or Protestant vs. Catholic?

Just curious.

Alan Watts was only focused in his life and work on the Buddhist/Taoist vs. Judaeo/Christian and some interest in Christian eccumenism. He actually expressed a synical view toward a broader resolution of religious conflict.

I learned a lot reading Alan's works, but I consider his goals too centered on his own view and efforts. This sort of isolated him into a personality cult with him as the center. His work is still worth reading, because he has some interesting insights into Buddhism and Taoism.

[simonlarcombe]

Pull the string and the recording plays. Nothing constructive toward a debate.

Maybe there is...

Read this, to YOURSELF!

I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but through me

[HK Pedestrian]

Yeah, poor old Alan Watts. I read a few of his books as a callow youth. His best is Myth and Ritual in Christianity , IMO. He was an ordained Anglican priest who had to resign because he couldn't keep his hands off of married women. He was also drinking a quart of vodka a day at the end of his life. The information he published was interesting, but I'll have to agree that his New Age (and other) proclivities tarnish his achievements as a teacher, at least for me.

-HKP

[simonlarcombe]

So he was human huh? Doh!

I guess he would have had a better idea about life, and been able to relate to the people better if he'd never experienced anything eh.

[HK Pedestrian]

:confused: No, I guess my point is that he would be more interesting to me if he had eventually shown a little more responsibility in how he conducted himself. Teachers should be able to teach by example, but what example did he provide? He never got to a place with all of that "experience" where he could really show anybody anything useful, instead he drank himself to death. You may follow the examples of whomever you'd like, but someone who uses his position as a spiritual counsellor to wilfully seduce married women (and thereby breaks up families) and then cracks under the pressure of what he's done to the point that he had to anaesthetise himself with massive quantities of ethanol, will probably only be able to really show practical ability in how to hurt those around him and himself. The guy was an airhead, IMNSHO.

More interesting to me are transcendant teachers teaching the cure for this world, not the symptoms of the disease, but I'm funny that way.

Cheers,
-HKP

[shunyadragon]

:confused: No, I guess my point is that he would be more interesting to me if he had eventually shown a little more responsibility in how he conducted himself. Teachers should be able to teach by example, but what example did he provide? He never got to a place with all of that "experience" where he could really show anybody anything useful, instead he drank himself to death. You may follow the examples of whomever you'd like, but someone who uses his position as a spiritual counsellor to wilfully seduce married women (and thereby breaks up families) and then cracks under the pressure of what he's done to the point that he had to anaesthetise himself with massive quantities of ethanol, will probably only be able to really show practical ability in how to hurt those around him and himself. The guy was an airhead, IMNSHO.

More interesting to me are transcendant teachers teaching the cure for this world, not the symptoms of the disease, but I'm funny that way.



Cheers,
-HKP

Like many genuses, we judge Alan too harshly. His books show insight, but of course his private life was not what I could call an example for people to follow.

I said previously that Alan later tended to form a personality click among new age and counter culture people, because his ecclectic views he tended to alienate the orthodox of both the east and the west. By the evidence these issues alienated him from the orthodoxy of Christianity more than his fooling around with women, which is very common among clergy in the west.

What do you consider the symptoms of the disease?

[simonlarcombe]

:)

I agree with you HKP.

I was just making the point that some people "preach" about things of which they have no experience.

I don't know a great deal about him as a person. What I've read and heard of his stuff is very good.

[Nukite]

Some interesting thoughts on the parallels between Krishna and Jesus:

To being, it may be helpful to sketch briefly teh story of Krishna as he is known by Hindus. The earliest reference to him is found in the Chandogya Upanishad (sixth century B.C.E.), where he is mentioned as a student of philosphy (III.17.6). In the Mahabharata (5th century B.C.E.) he is portrayed as a tribal hero; in the Bhagavad-Gita (2nd century B.C.E., as God incarnate who instructs Arjuna and, through him, all humankind. Our earliest source of his childhood is found in the Vishnu Purana (5th century C.E.)...the list goes on.
From this vast array of literature covering several centuries emerge three kirshnas, or rather three aspects of the one Krishna of the Hindus: the trival hero, the God incarnate, and the Krishna of the Puranas, which tell of his life in Gokula as the divine child, the young herdsman, and the endearing lover. The three aspects of his character are cumulative, not discrete, for each aspect melts into the other. As a hero he met the worshiper's need for a divine father; as a young herdsman, for a divine lover; and as a child, for a son.
Intriguing is the fact that nativity stories of Krishna and Jesus are alike in many ways. Just as Nanda came with Yashoda to Mathura to pay tribute, so Joseph came with Mary to Bethlehem to be taxed (Lk. 2:1-6; Bhagavata Purana, X.5; Vishnu Purana, V.e, V.6). In both cases a star portends a miraculous birth, and that birth comes int eh middle of the night as an evil king sleeps (Mt. 1:18-25; Lk. 1:26-38; Bhagavata Purana, X.3). The cruel king Kamsa has his parallel in Herod, and in both caes there is a massacre of infants when the kings awakens (Mt. 2:14-16; Bhagavata Purana, X.4, X.6; Vishnu Purana, V.4). As wise men came to see Krishna, so wise men came to see infatn Jesus; heavenly musicians rained down songs of praise, just as Bethlehem's shepards were startled by the angels' glorias (Mt. 2:9-12; Lk. 2:8-20; Bhagavata Purana X.2, X.3; Vishnu Purana, V.2. V.3). The flight to Braj is similar to the flight into Egypt; in Braj, as in Israel, the parents were forewarned to take their child away to a place that lay safely beyond the despot's reach (Mt. 2:13-15; Bhagavata Purana, X.3; Vishnu Purana, V.1, V.3, V.5). Thus, Krishna's identity was hidden as he began his life in Braj, must as that of Jesus was concealed by the stables of Bethlehem and carpenters' stalls of Nazareth (Mt. 2:19-23).
The new wave of biblical scholarship points in an analogous direction with respect to Jesus. The story of his life and teachings is found in four gospels, not to mention the many Epistles were written by various authors. It is true that no serious scholar today doubts his existence, yet the Gospels, even conservatives would admit, are documents of faith molded by the needs of the early Christians to interpret the Christ-even rather than efforts to offer a literal, chronological account for what Jesus actually said and did. Understandably, many Christians now put more emphasis on the meaning and spirituality of the Jesus-story than Christians did in the past and as Hindus do with respect to Krishna.
In any event, in attempting a comparison of Krishna and Jesus, it is immaterial whether the Krishna of teh Bhagavad-Gita is a historical figure or not. The essential point is that this scripture articulates the Hindu recognition of Krishna as God. This recognition merits a comparison between him and Jesus in the New Testament.

I have lots more but I think this is good for now. I may when I am done with this go through this again with the comparison in Buddha (who knows what an insane mind will decide to do). I have made sure to add the intext citations for all those who wish to look it up on your own. If you're Christian and frowning about this...remember, Milton said: "An untested faith is not faith at all." This is not so much as to debate any religious point, but to see what everyone thinks.
Trading routes and contact between different cultural and writing "Jesus read and write" so the mystery is not a mystery, the buddah ideas were transported to the west by boddivistas still have pillars of their pilgrimage. Ten commandments, ten precepts of Zen simple people who could not read did not know where these ideas were borrowed from and exchanged as to be original, even egyptain ideas as "Jesus" went to egypt. Moses was a king in egypt and they are all one family lineage right up to David and up to jesus one family. John the baptist was his cousin, information makes they mystery not a mystery. The sea and land and transfer of information to other continents, as to jesus the only way the use the word way "I and the father is one" did he mean his own personality Satori as in Zen. Seen within the context of trades, merchants and the shipping routes no mystery, except for people who wish to have favours of "So called original ideas that only they can benefit from" and outsiders cannot, with information and comparision all these division and differences fall apart, and answer as in this forum would appear in context and with a simple explanation of how, when and where.

[Hannibal]

The legend of Viracocha in the Aztec mythology is a curious parallel to the legend of Jesus too. Hancock makes note of this in "Fingerprints of the Gods", and it is quite spooky (despite the MANY shortcomings of the rest of the book!)

The closest parallel in mythology is, to my mind, between Jesus and Dionysus (or Bacchus). In fact the whole mythos that arose around Jesus is little more than a carbon copy of Dinoysian tradition. So much so that the church at one point said that satan had created the earlier legends before Christ was born to throw people of the scent when Jesus came to earth! Now that IS foward planning and a half!

[Nukite]

Would you say it's possible both tales may relate to a much earlier parable, described by alternate and subsequent cultural developments?

The earliest historical reference of which I am aware, relating to "man-god" is the rise of Pharaonic Egypt out of seminal cultism some 6,500 years ago. It shortly predates the development of civilization in the Mesopotamian region and anywhere else in the world.

Yes both tale were from earlier style of "mangod" pharaonic which moses had access to as being in the court of egyptian and "jesus" quoteds moses therefore a direct link.
Methods of controlling the people with structure and tales which that the priest use to propogate the tales of krisna, christ and buddah shows communication and exchanges of ideas. Old form of politics that guises as religion, as communication and ideas were only available to certain few so they were unchallenged, became doctrine and dogma. Christ, krisna, and buddah were the stars of those days as they all studied and knew scriptures, therefore could recognize similiar ideas which can be woven into a tale by "clever priest and structures" that benefit from these tales.

[shunyadragon]

There are other explanations. They may all be of divine origin and their messages were distorted by man over time.

We do not have any evidence that the Hebrews of that time had access to Vedic scriptures.

[Nukite]

There are other explanations. They may all be of divine origin and their messages were distorted by man over time.

We do not have any evidence that the Hebrews of that time had access to Vedic scriptures.

If they are of divine origin then they don,t need messages but it would be plain as no one can dispute divine origins of physical, and real proof i.e. a techonology books that cannot be destroyed or changes over time. Despite all attempts to change or distorted divine so called message, the origins are not divine but man own interpretation of what they think is divine "inspired of" but not by. Do you mean that the hebrew did not built ships and have trade, even noah was a ship builder, don,t know about divine plans just plain ship builders a bit advance because they like the egyptian and mesotopians had writing and way of communication not available to others but so called divine writings.
http://doormann.tripod.com/the0.htm
He is research and links with vedic gods and hebrew, divine writings or just using what available to make it appear that way specially if one had no access to this info.
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part2/chap2.htm
info for thought how do you get these information in olden divine controlled times.

[shunyadragon]

If they are of divine origin then they don,t need messages but it would be plain as no one can dispute divine origins of physical, and real proof i.e. a techonology books that cannot be destroyed or changes over time. Despite all attempts to change or distorted divine so called message, the origins are not divine but man own interpretation of what they think is divine "inspired of" but not by. Do you mean that the hebrew did not built ships and have trade, even noah was a ship builder, don,t know about divine plans just plain ship builders a bit advance because they like the egyptian and mesotopians had writing and way of communication not available to others but so called divine writings.
http://doormann.tripod.com/the0.htm
He is research and links with vedic gods and hebrew, divine writings or just using what available to make it appear that way specially if one had no access to this info.
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part2/chap2.htm
info for thought how do you get these information in olden divine controlled times.

There is simply no evidence of Vedic scripture or knowledge among the literate at the time of Jesus and before.

[Nukite]

There is simply no evidence of Vedic scripture or knowledge among the literate at the time of Jesus and before.

The literate at as you call "who ever they were" here is a 5000 yrs scriptural evidence a link
http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm
Not the book version but scriptural evidence at the middle of the article, amazing how religion try to hide didn,t have to look far for evidence. Try that in the literate times and its priest and institution of control at jesus time or even today in modern society.

[shunyadragon]

The literate at as you call "who ever they were" here is a 5000 yrs scriptural evidence a link
http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm
Not the book version but scriptural evidence at the middle of the article, amazing how religion try to hide didn,t have to look far for evidence. Try that in the literate times and its priest and institution of control at jesus time or even today in modern society.

As a Baha'i I believe that through progressive revelation the messiah appears to all peoples of the earth, like Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammod, Bab and Baha'u'llah, but there is not any direct evidence in the Holy Lands that Jesus knew of Vedic scriptures and religion.

The similarities and shared knowledge of messiahs like Jesus, Krishna and Buddha is from within and eternal, because they are from the same source.

[shunyadragon]

Some interesting thoughts on the parallels between Krishna and Jesus:

I have lots more but I think this is good for now. I may when I am done with this go through this again with the comparison in Buddha (who knows what an insane mind will decide to do). I have made sure to add the intext citations for all those who wish to look it up on your own. If you're Christian and frowning about this...remember, Milton said: "An untested faith is not faith at all." This is not so much as to debate any religious point, but to see what everyone thinks.

I would like you to share some more about the parallels, for example concerning reserrection and the promise to return.

[Nukite]

As a Baha'i I believe that through progressive revelation the messiah appears to all peoples of the earth, like Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammod, Bab and Baha'u'llah, but there is not any direct evidence in the Holy Lands that Jesus knew of Vedic scriptures and religion.

The similarities and shared knowledge of messiahs like Jesus, Krishna and Buddha is from within and eternal, because they are from the same source.

The holy land has a wall and even jesus message was misunderstood, it,s not surprising that Vedic scriptures has no so called "direct evidence" because that would contradict the elite chosen people. The chosen people is the world it is"within" because it is from men understanding and not eternal or devine, the "same source" because that the only way to keep the status quo and power. A method to keep knowledge from people who are not part of the so called "holy land" or priestcraft the truth is available to everyone who has the mind to see and research for it. There is no eternal message, this is the source of much contentions and dispute only what the "school of the prophets" as john the baptist and others were, there no mystery about eternal truth only in people minds. As useful as it may seem "eternal truth" is a human construct a fantasy about "truth". Never spoken of by jesus or any other "what is truth" old ponteus pilate as to Baha'u'llah, I am a bit familiar with that prophets "what eternal truth" can a man have just his own point of view and what he has learned. No god has ever "spoken directely about eternal truth" the rest from the prophets are just guess work from their scriptures and learning from the school of the prophets. Quite a few people do not know prophets study scriptures and then become prophets. Nothing mystical or eternal or out the ordinary. If moses did not have access to egyptian court then what prophet, a wadering person in the desert just like the children of Isreal.
http://www.warble.com/Bahai/BasicFacts/basic8.html
for info only on bahia what another?
http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak1.html
Another one none found in tesco so far or any where else in modern times, I am sure there are lot more with similiar supposed divine revelations, but not at your bus stop, or place or work.

[Nukite]

I would like you to share some more about the parallels, for example concerning reserrection and the promise to return.

I think it was someone who said "In the same manner that old jesus left he will return in glory" or something to that effect old jesus never said see you all next week, probably and after thought borrowed myth to make a religion. No books from old jesus so that ends that religion.

[Nukite]

I think it was someone who said "In the same manner that old jesus left he will return in glory" or something to that effect old jesus never said see you all next week, probably and after thought borrowed myth to make a religion. No books from old jesus so that ends that religion.
http://krishna.avatara.org/
If any body want some info who is that guy "krishna" as many people have just a passing knowledge or old jesus well enough known about him from most people.

[jroe52]

i read some posts to say religions corrupt over time. if you wanted one that did not by itsself is tibeten buddhism. a beutiful culture and religion is being destroyed yet today by the chinese, and not by the tibetens themselves. if you can read, see, or meet tibetens it is amazing how kind, carring, compassionate, and sincere they are.

[gerard]

When it comes to religion I like the following Indian fable of the "Six blind men and the elephant":

Long ago in India, six blind men lived together. Because they lived in India, they often heard about elephants. But because they were blind, they had never seen an elephant.

The blind men lived near the palace of a Rajah. The Rajah was the ruler of all the people. At the palace of the Rajah, there were many elephants.

"Let us go to the palace of the Rajah," said one blind man. "Yes, let us go," said the others.

It was a hot day, but the six blind men walked to the palace. They walked one behind the other. The smallest blind man was the leader. The second blind man put his hand on the shoulder of the leader. Each blind man put his hand on the shoulder of the man in front.

A friend of the six blind men met them at the palace. An elephant was standing in the courtyard. The six blind men touched the elephant with their hands. The first blind man put out his hand and touched the side of the elephant. He said: "How smooth! An elephant is like a wall."

The second blind man put out his hand and touched the trunk of the elephant. He said: "How round! An elephant is like a snake."

The third blind man put out his hand and touched the tusk of the elephant. He said: "How sharp! An elephant is like a spear."

The fourth blind man put out his hand and touched the leg of the elephant. He said: "How tall! An elephant is like a tree."

The fifth blind man reached out his hand and touched the ear of the elephant. He said: "How wide! An elephant is like a fan."

The sixth blind many put out his hand and touched the tail of the elephant. He said: "How thin! An elephant is like a rope."

The friend of the six blind men let them into a garden. The six blind men were tired. It was a hot day.

"Wait here. I shall bring you water to drink." They sat down in the shade of a big tree. "You must not go out in the sun until you rest, " he said. The six blind men talked about the elephant.

"An elephant is like a wall," said the first blind man. "A wall?" said the second blind man. "You're wrong. an elephant is like a snake."

"A snake?" said the third blind man. "You're wrong. An elephant is like a spear."

"A spear?" said the fourth blind man. "You're wrong. An elephant is like a tree"

"A tree?" said the fifth blind man. "You're wrong. An elephant is like a fan."

"A fan?" said the sixth blind man. "You're wrong. An elephant is like a rope."

The six blind men could not agree. Each man shouted. "A wall!" "A snake!" "A spear!" "A tree!" "A fan!" "A rope!"

The friend of the six blind men came back with water to drink. At the same time the Rajah, who was catching some sleep, was awakened by the shouting. He looked out and saw the six blind men below him in the courtyard. "STOP!" called out the Rajah.

The six blind men stopped shouting. They knew that the Rajah was a very wise man. They listened to him. The Rajah spoke in a kind voice. "The elephant is a big animal. Each of you touched only one part. You must put all the parts together to find out what an elephant is like."

The six blind men listened. They drank the cool water as they rested in the shade. They talked quietly. "The Rajah is right. Each on of us knows only a part. To find out the whole truth, we must put all the parts together."

The six blind men walked out of the courtyard just as they had before, and they went home.


I recommend you to read "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda and you'll realise that Spirituality and not Religion will trascend all those petty discussions that my religion is better than yours.

BTW, check out this link:


http://www.wie.org/j21/babaji.asp?page=1



Finally someone mentioned Castaneda. His best book is Tales of Power as it is concerned amongst other things with the internal dialogue:

"You must learn how to stop your internal dialogue at will. At the beginning of our association I delineated another procedure: walking for long stretches without focusing the eyes on anything. My recommendation was to not look at anything directly but, by slightly crossing the eyes, to keep a peripheral view of everything that presented itself to the eyes. If one keeps one's unfocused eyes fixed at a point just above the horizon, it is possible to notice, at once, everything in almost the total 180-degree range in front of one's eyes. That exercise is the only way of shutting off the internal dialogue.The internal dialogue is what grounds us. The world is such and such or so and so, only because we talk to ourselves about its being such and such or so and so. The passageway into the world of sorcerers opens up after the warrior has learned to shut off the internal dialogue".



Regards.