Straight Blast Block and Counter

[Jeet]

This has been bugging me for some time now. If someone were to attack you with "straight blasts" is there a method to stop them from doing so and then possibly a counter?

Obviously you can only give me an idea because each scenario would be different but I would appreciate the help :)

[YODA]

This has been bugging me for some time now. If someone were to attack you with "straight blasts" is there a method to stop them from doing so and then possibly a counter?

Obviously you can only give me an idea because each scenario would be different but I would appreciate the help :)
Slide-by double leg takedown

[Jeet]

You would have to be seriously fast for that wouldn't you!?

[How]

If someone punched at you with a straight punch the most obvious things to do are:
- Block
or...
- Dodge

Duh!
How long have you been doing martial arts? I mean do you have to ask 'How do you avoid a punch?' ???????????

[YODA]

You would have to be seriously fast for that wouldn't you!?
Timing is more important than speed.

I've done it - many times.

A combination of understanding the beast you're dealing with - and TIMING!

[Sanitarium]

Straight Blasts tend to focus on the centreline for their power, you could try a counter by moving around the opponent, or you could Straight Blast right back at them and try and clinch.

[YODA]

Duh!
How long have you been doing martial arts? I mean do you have to ask 'How do you avoid a punch?' ???????????
That wasn't the question :rolleyes:

[How]

Whatever, it's still a dumb question. Try blocking like you were taught in your class you FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OL!!!!

[AndyD]

There are many different styles/types of straight blasts. Personally, I use a blast that is structurally strong and is deeply co-ordinated with the footwork in order to have the speed and power required. Very (very) basically what happens is that at the end of each punch my bodyweight (assisted appropriately by the feet) moves forward therby giving a great deal of my body weight into the punch as well as accelerating it (as your body speed is added to the hand speed at this point). The punching arms are also structured to wedge through any obstruction. Centre line is sensitivity is also trained in so that the punches are constanty adjusting to the postion of the opponent (side to side and up and down). The net result of this is that each punch is extremely hard to stop. Even if you try and block/parry it the weight and structure behind it will probably go straight through you almost unimpeded. Note: As with most martial arts it is better to feel the results than read about them.

As far as defending against a straight blast someone using the above would be the worst case scenario. However, many straightblasts operate simply as a flurry of punches, relying on the amount of punches thrown to overpower the opponent, often after a decisive blow has already been struck. These are easier to stop.

There are two main ways I use to stop all blasts:

The first is to fire straight through his attack with a strongly structured punch(es) - where your punching arm is wedge shaped in order to cut through any obstructions including punches on its way to the target. In short, each punch is also a block.

The second is to gum up the attack - to make contact and stick to the opponents arms, tying them up, disrupting his balance and nullifying his attacks. This is one of the skills that should be trained within chi sau.

These are the two main ways I practice. In reality you use the two responses firing through when possible while sticking when necessary.

I hope this helps. I've left out a lot of detail as sometimes that is best in order to give an overview. If you wish me expand on anything I'd be happy to.

Andy

[Tireces]

Whatever, it's still a dumb question. Try blocking like you were taught in your class you FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OL!!!!

That'll do nicely, then you can get hit by all the other impacts the straight blast throws out, because you can't just keep blocking them all. Maybe you're the f(o x 100)l here, not him.

[Ad McG]

That'll do nicely, then you can get hit by all the other impacts the straight blast throws out, because you can't just keep blocking them all. Maybe you're the f(o x 100)l here, not him.

Precisely.

I would also go for the take-down, or failing that try and get into a decent clinch position while he is still trying to throw punches.

[dustIn credible]

id sidestep crane strike cloths line dont know the "technical name" for it but it works

[Jeet]

That'll do nicely, then you can get hit by all the other impacts the straight blast throws out, because you can't just keep blocking them all. Maybe you're the f(o x 100)l here, not him.

Thanks :)

I appreciate all your help everyone, I think Iv got the basics,

Gareth

[simonlarcombe]

Side stepping against someone who has good centre line skills would be a very dangerous thing to do, they will simply follow you and you loose a beat of time. All the time you are defending you are loosing, intercept! (ala JKD)

[jroe52]

if your sifu teaches the wing chun aspects of jkd, ask him for "pak sao" it is a easy and fast hand block that pushes/slaps their hand out of the way. you can grab their arm and jut? sao or throw them ect.

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp

look at the pak sao techniques. it is the movement where they "push" the arm to the side with an open palm, if that helps to recognize it. the block is a "slapping block" and works very well.

[YODA]

I think most of the people posting on the JKD forum are aware of Pak-Sao :D

[jroe52]

well he asked on how to block it hehe.

[YODA]

I know.

It's like asking how to defend a boxer's jab - just slip it. No problem - every boxer knows that. They still get hit with jabs though :rolleyes:

[bigd]

Look Dude If Someone Goes And Does A Straight Punch At You 1-grab His Arm Do A Jointlock Are Some Sort 2-bllock It And Then Do What Your Taught 3-slip His Punch 4- Grab It And Throw His Ass With A Ippon Seo Nage Or Somthing I Could Go On And On And On And On Or **** Take It Like A Man And Let Him Hit You If You Practice 4rth Level Blocking If You Dont Know What That Is Ill Tell How To Do It Its One Step Below 5thlevel

[Jeet]

I am aware of a pak-sao, but thank you very much for your reply :)

[pug32]

Look Dude If Someone Goes And Does A Straight Punch At You 1-grab His Arm Do A Jointlock Are Some Sort 2-bllock It And Then Do What Your Taught 3-slip His Punch 4- Grab It And Throw His Ass With A Ippon Seo Nage Or Somthing I Could Go On And On And On And On Or **** Take It Like A Man And Let Him Hit You If You Practice 4rth Level Blocking If You Dont Know What That Is Ill Tell How To Do It Its One Step Below 5thlevel

Spoken like someone who has never been on the receiving end of a straight blast.

Regardless of who you are putting your face in the way and taking it like a man is neither effective nor practical

[Yukimushu]

Spoken like someone who has never been on the receiving end of a straight blast.

Regardless of who you are putting your face in the way and taking it like a man is neither effective nor practical

lolol :D too true! :)

I've always found straight blasts a difficult one to escape from as well. Sometimes a teep can do the trick to give you alittle space, but of course that always depends on the distance between his straightblasts and yourself. Other than that, as yoda said, a take down would be a good option.

[bigd]

Spoken like someone who has never been on the receiving end of a straight blast.

Regardless of who you are putting your face in the way and taking it like a man is neither effective nor practical
IVE DONE TRAINED IT BEEN THERE DONE THAT IF YOU PRACTICE 4RTH LEVEL OF BLOCKING YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE HITS I BEEN ON THE RECIEVING END PLENTY OF TIMES

[Andy Murray]

Lose the caps lock please.

If you can't make a point without em, you can't make a point with em!

[Tireces]

I'd like to use this moment to address a stereotype that has afflicted myself and my fellow males for ages. Since when was stupidly throwing your face into the punch doing things "like a man"? I like to think myself and my fellow males are usually a bit smarter than that!

Anyways, if you want to find ways to deal with a straight blast, have someone in a controlled sparring environment come at you with straight blasts. That's what I'd do. If only we all had sparring partners who would practice whatever we wanted...that'd be sweet.

[Guy Mendiola]

You would have to parry the straight blast then follow up with the counter, simple as that.

[Glasgow_man98]

Yeah have Mike Tyson Puch you in face with a right cross and lets see you take that like a man.

You will wake up the Hospital or not at all.

[simonlarcombe]

You would have to parry the straight blast then follow up with the counter, simple as that.

...

It's like asking how to defend a boxer's jab - just slip it. No problem - every boxer knows that. They still get hit with jabs though :rolleyes:

Yoda is exactly right. So nothing is quite so simple. You can't just expect to parry the chain punch and counter. The chain punch should be structured to cut through anything in it's path...in fact they shouldn't even be considered punches, they are whatever they are...whatever they need to be. They can trap, jam, deflect...punch!

If your parry is structurally more efficient than the punch it can work. If the punch is stucturally more efficient than the parry it can work.

There are MANY variables to be taken into account.

[wcrevdonner]

Some good stuff here...I was practising just this at the weekend. We were, (WC people) just practising short little blocks that kill the energy of the punch - which can be done outside or inside gate. (Outside being safer obviously.) Hopefully, if he throws enough you can stick and counter by getting the timing, or wait for him to become tired/vary strike which will lead to a strike/sticking situation.

[OBCT]

Would you have time to do a small kick to the ankle (WC style) with the leg on the same side as your opponant is trying to hit you with, so your upper body is just out of range for any instant. It would comprimise your balance for a second, but if you did contact to his ankle, and his strike misses. For a second his hand and his foot from opposing sides of his body will be close, so put him in a far more vulnerable position, with his near side and his back both being open. I may be wrong, but thats the way i envision it.

[simonlarcombe]

In theory, I think this would be a dangerous thing to do too.

But, you can't tell ... Nobody can tell you what an effective counter, block etc might be to a given move. You can only generalise.

For example. You are confronted by a group of attackers, there is a gap behind you so you run (best thing to do right!) as you turn and run you slip over and wake up the next morning in hospital. Same situation, you are confronted by a group of attackers you punch the person closest to you in the throat and then run, and you're OK...or they kick you to death...or you misread the situation, the guy is an experienced martial artist, stops you and you all go to the pub for a drink, you meet his sister, get married and so, a story for your grandchildren.

In my opinion, in general if someone attacks you, you attack the attack. But there is so much to take into account... where are you standing, what is the light like, what is the ground like, are there other people around (are there any innocent people nearby who could be hurt if you make the wrong move), do you have any injuries (maybe your left arm is already broken, it would not be sensible to Pak at right hand punch), how many people do you know are facing you, how many potential more, which is the best direction to escape, are there any buildings nearby, are there any potential weapons for you or him/them.

You learn many skills and you practice, practice, practice.

[clutchdoctor]

Everyone can see how this might be easy if their thinking that someone is just gonna be like a machine punching the exact same way and is predictable, but more than likely its a human. best way i can see if to stay out of the range of your opponent and look for an opening and take it as soon as possible, something like him wearing down or slowing down, if he takes longer to throw a hard punch take advantage get outta the way. one really good way i can think of is to do a really hard front kick to the lower parts like the legs or stomach. lean back when i say hard you can get outta the punches way as well as have the extra power. theres always more than one way to get outta things you just have to look, best advice is if he's goin crazy on you stay outta his range and let him tire out ^_^

P.S. ...hehe new emoticon thingies on the bottom lol

[NorwoodBloke]

This isn't intended to be flippant but...

I have found that throwing a big right hook at the person using a straight blast often works really well!

Rather than trying to contest the centre it hits them where their hands aren't.

The same kind of tactic you would probably use against most other strikes...

[Ad McG]

IVE DONE TRAINED IT BEEN THERE DONE THAT IF YOU PRACTICE 4RTH LEVEL OF BLOCKING YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE HITS I BEEN ON THE RECIEVING END PLENTY OF TIMES

Eejit.


Has anybody tried blocking them crazy monkey boxing style? How did it work out? I know I wouldn't be too happy straight blasting and hitting elbows.

[YODA]

Eejit.


Has anybody tried blocking them crazy monkey boxing style? How did it work out? I know I wouldn't be too happy straight blasting and hitting elbows.
Yes - and it works VERY well. It's especially good because when you get inside you are in a great position to grab neck and work from a Thai clinch.

[wcrevdonner]

Whats crazy monkey boxing style?

[YODA]

Whats crazy monkey boxing style?
Running backwards throwing crap at your attacker.

Ahem...

It's a defensive structure where you basically put your hands on your head, point your elbows forward, and use your forearms, elbows and mobility as a defensive shield.

Better shown than written :rolleyes:

[simonlarcombe]

Yes, this is very nice!

I wouldn't like to stand in front of it. This can be fierce.

[Ad McG]

I was thinking the same Yoda, straight to clinch when they really close in. I saw it on a seminar video trailer you put up here I think and on Rodney King's tapes, seems pretty useful. The structure of it makes it better for blocking bare-knuckle punches than the usual boxers guard, which is why I thought of it here.

[YODA]

For an even better understanding - get your ass down to Karl Tanswell's gym in the City centre and experience it :p

[wcrevdonner]

What, running backwards have crap thrown at me!?! I don't think so...:D

Sounds interesting, going to have to ask my sifu about that one.

Regarding straight blasts...if you are not used to them, then they are a wotsit to deal with...however, I would only use them if either I had got a certain trap, or if Im in that close to be able to make them overuse their blocks, since you're right, a big right hook is a perfect counter.

You want to be careful about going to the clinch range btw; the wc guy, (Im assuming we are talking about a straight blast from a wc guy/gal) might want that to specifically use his chi sao skills. That is half the reason you use a straight blast really...

[YODA]

You want to be careful about going to the clinch range btw; the wc guy, (Im assuming we are talking about a straight blast from a wc guy/gal) might want that to specifically use his chi sao skills. That is half the reason you use a straight blast really...
Well thats fine with me. I'm willing to put my clinch up against Chi-Sao skills.

Sometimes you get the bear - sometimes the bear gets you :D

[pug32]

Is the purpose of the monkey boxing defence like the limb destructions from the filipino arts?

I'll throw this one back in again as with Paul Vunaks system the blast follows some sort of serious pain such as a hand destruction or an interception like a shot to the eyes or the nuts. I think this would then mean some of the counters listed wouldn't work. I also believe in his later training he zones of so your centre lines aren't lined up as he found some people can run backwards flat out and get away, essentially they are blasting on their centre line but you are going backwards on a 45

Unless you have freaky long arms as the blast holds centre line you will get piled backwards before the hook can land.

discuss :D

[NorwoodBloke]

You can hook over their arm the same way you would with any other straight punch.

Failing that you can slip in or clinch (or even shoot) rather than back out to prevent the piling backwards thing.

They want you to start trying to parry and block, and there isn't a lot of point in throwing straight punches back into the traffic.

And yes you might still get hit but they aren't using their power punches, and you aren't in sewing class.

(The crazy monkey is very similar to the standard "oh s**t!" last resort defence where you cover your head with both arms and close in, isn't it? )

[YODA]

(The crazy monkey is very similar to the standard "oh s**t!" last resort defence where you cover your head with both arms and close in, isn't it? )
Very close - yes. Which is probably why it works so well :D

[wcrevdonner]

Fair enough Yoda, although with my chi sao skills the way they are at the mo, I think Id have trouble tackling a teddy bear, let alone a big green one. :)
Id like to have a go though at some point...

I have to say that don't be deceived into thinking that a straight blast isn't powerful - why do you think WC guys/gals train short range power. I've put down a guy considerably bigger than me with the first punch from a straight blast.
Although I did break my hand...:D
And you guys say you can shoot - but a straight blast isn't just pulled out of thin air, we would make sure you were under pressure to begin with. I just think that if you start to parry, then you can get the timing for a counter, such as shooting/hooking rather than initially slip the first punch, which will inevitably have a very fast second coming straight after it - in which I think you're more prone to make a mistake.

[YODA]

Good thoughts - especially on the timing of the blast being a key factor. It is at the "make sure you were under pressure to begin with" stage that you would probably be most at risk from the shoot.

At the end of the day all this is arbiraty if you are not going to try it - and that goes equally for both sides.

Now - what about a guy trained in BOTH the WC straight blast & the MMA shoot etc? Maybe he'd be a handful for either!

Enter JKD guy - stage right :D

[simonlarcombe]

Now - what about a guy trained in BOTH the WC straight blast & the MMA shoot etc? Maybe he'd be a handful for either!

Oh yes! :D

[wcrevdonner]

100 percent agreement, which is why we do try it!!

As for the JKD guy, I think he'd say 'Bruce would do it like this...', and then get pummelled by the WC guy and shooter simultaneously!

[YODA]

100 percent agreement, which is why we do try it!!

As for the JKD guy, I think he'd say 'Bruce would do it like this...', and then get pummelled by the WC guy and shooter simultaneously!

LOL! Not the JKD guys I train with mate. They'd be more likely to say "Bruce who?" :D

[Jeet]

I was thinking, and researching, on wing chun the other night and I was wondering if a Bong Sau would be effective to use or would it be too slow?

[simonlarcombe]

"I fear not the man who practices 10,000 techniques once, but the man who practices one technique 10,000 times." - Ancient Chinese Saying

Think about what this means. It's not the technique!

[simonlarcombe]

Obviously there are many things that need to be practiced any many things you need to take into account in this (and any) situation.

But there is one thing that is INCREDIBLY important here, it hasn't been mentioned very much but if you look back you'll notice that Yoda typed it in capitals TIMING... TIMING!

So, we're being attacked with a Straightblast. Now take this into account, first hand, front hand...

It is possible to deliver a seriously powerful punch, from the front hand, significantly outside what is generally considered "punching range" in a fraction of a second.

So timing is crucial.

Then, how do you time something that fast. Especially something which accelarates throughout the punch i.e. not travelling at a constant velocity. Go too early and you'll still get hit, miss it and still get hit, (not to mention connect with less efficient structure and still get hit) all in a VERY short space of time.

It's very difficult, but comes back to the mind.

[slayed]

I am not a jkd practioner but i do admire and research jkd concepts. I do have some the JDK videos that i study off. But from one of the videos, Paul Vunaks stress on the fact that in order for one to committ the straight blast, the opponent has first be hit before the technqiue is started.
1. It is hard for the opponent to counter that straight blast because you are already being hit on the side or foot, unless the first attack did not hurt, i deduce that your brain will still be feeling the pain before you are mobile again.

Counter against a straight blast without first being hit will be easy.
What i can think up of is a jumping knee straight at the face of the person doing the last disrupting his flow of energy.

"In my opinion, in general if someone attacks you, you attack the attack. But there is so much to take into account..." : simonlarcombe

Or side step and round house to the ribs that would work too

I am trying to stress on is that metaphysically the straight blast's path of "destruction" is a line, to distrupt the power / chi or whatever is to side step the straight blast during the brust / early stages of the blast.

I dunno much about it, i hope this can shed some light.
Thanks everyone for reading

[simonlarcombe]

"Paul Vunaks stress on the fact that in order for one to committ the straight blast, the opponent has first be hit before the technqiue is started"

That's not really true. What's the difference between a straightblast, and a straightblast that starts with a punch?

"Or side step and round house to the ribs that would work too"

Most anything could work. However, if you faced someone with good centre line skills, side stepping could be the worst possible choice... they'll just follow you, you'll miss the time and get hit.

[wcrevdonner]

Or side step and round house to the ribs that would work too

To be honest, Id think that that wasn't one that would work. the distance is wrong imho. The straight blaster would be looking to not hit you but just put you under pressure, which can be easily countered (as I found out last wednesday! A junior student to me who has good groundwork skills slipped the 2nd/3rd punch in the blast and grabbed my waist, to which I just smiled, thinking 'bugger, I would have been caught!!) If you use a straight blast, make sure you are going to hit with it, or counter with the 2nd/maximum 3rd strike.

[Len]

Anybody that knows anything about straightblasting knows you don't run at someone with a straightblast to start out with. If you do that, the guy will look at you and wonder what the hell you think you're doing and might laugh. You have to hurt the guy first. Once the guy is shocked with pain on that split second, then the blast is put on. Pretty much this is how the blast would work:
Attacker (street thug) = A. Defender (JKD man) = B.

A throws a punch.
B either throws a destruction on the bicep, finger jabs the eye, or already has his hands up so when the punch comes, B destroys the punch by putting his elbow up. When the hand hits the elbow at full force, pain will set in and surprise the attacker. As soon as A flinches from getting hit with the the eye jab, or retracts his arm from a destruction, or pulls his hand back in pain from hitting B's elbow, then you straight blast. And it doesn't matter what style you are, when you are running backwards looking like a wounded crane, no style is effective when you are off balance. Different people will react differently to the blast. Some will hold up their arms to protect their face. That's where the traps come in. You trap and then continue the blast. If the person turns away while crouching down and bending his knees, you can knee him in the thigh. If he bends forward, there is an open invitation for an upper cut or guillotine. In any case scenario, once you get past his kicking and punching range, and you've trapped past his defenses, you grab the back of his head and use your elbows, headbutts, or knees which will finish him off. For many JKD concepts guys, this is the strategy that is used. Bruce used to be so fast, that when the guy threw a punch, he would simply eye jab and blast and the guy would fall. No traps, elbows, knees, headbutts, etc. He was that fast. But ordinary people who aren't at the level of superhero status can't always pull something like that off and need as many weapons as possible so that's why the "how to drop someone fast in an attack JKD style" is pretty much our generic attack plan. Most people that say "well, I'll just side step or I'll just this or that....have never had the blast put on them. It is just so fast you simply don't have time. In only 2 seconds, an 8 to 10 straightblast punch combo could be put on you and guess what? You are either going to go down or run backwards. Either way, you are not going to be in a position to be countering or retaliating. Dan Inosanto said "whenever Bruce was serious, he would ALWAYS straightblast." Bruce wouldn't use something that didn't work cause he always wanted to be the best.

[simonlarcombe]

Hi Len

The straightblast can certainly be intimidating and effective, and, no doubt, difficult to counter or intercept. Nothing, however, is a given, the moment will decide. Be wary of pre-set counter and attack... this, I believe, is what Bruce was referring to when he critisised traditional patterns and forms, it's not the art but the manner in which it is expressed.

Simon

[wcrevdonner]

Good point Simon. Nice to hear from you again...

Len, I am in agreement with most of your points. I agree in principal with what you are saying. However...

Different people will react differently to the blast. Some will hold up their arms to protect their face. That's where the traps come in. You trap and then continue the blast.

This is where I have problems with the idea of trapping in JKD/Wing Chun. I agree with it, (a laap sao is an excellent follow on from a straight blast) but it is much harder to do in practise. Your chi sao skills have to be extremely good, and even then you are running the risk of getting into a clinching situation, be they good or not. Its controlling the hands at that range whilst maintaining a good close distance and tight form in your shapes which makes trapping effective, plus excellent timing. Its ten times easier to grab and pull in than to maintain striking/trapping distance, and unless you are super aware of that and are well trained enough to deal with the eventualities that might occur from there, (which are again ten times more the amount than if you are clinching) then you will get into a clinch situation, or you will break.

Everything you have mentioned is the idea of you constantly having the upper hand - trapping might lead to a point where the aggressor has neutralised your attacks quickly, and you are in a stalemate position.