The Kali triangle

[johndoch]

Anyone ever heard of the kali triangle footwork drill and know what it is about?

[waya]

pesilat talked about it, and kinda walked me through it when I met him last month. I didn't get all the details of it though.

[johndoch]

Thanks Waya,

I was just curious as my current instructor has been running us through this drill recently. I have never heard of it before so I was wanting some sort of confirmation that it is a Kali training drill as it seems like a boxing slip both defensively and offensively. Maybe Pesilat could tell me more.

[TkdWarrior]

i hav heard it(cuz i know one of fma guru)but dunno ...sorry doc
i m sure it's a kali drill
-TkdWarrior-

[YODA]

Take a peek...

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/kali-footwork.htm

[johndoch]

Thanks Yoda

Thats exactly what i was looking for. We have just done the first three open triangles so far but i will ask my instructor about the closed and lateral triangles. Must come later in the syllabus.

[YODA]

No problem Doc

We have a dozen or so variations on each of the triangles - just yell if you want to take it further than just stepping to a beat.

[johndoch]

Hope you dont mind Yoda but I took a copy of the footwork drill to training last night. The instructor at the club says that the other footwork drills will come up at a later date.

Hoping to get a few of the guys at the club to start checking out MAP as its probably one of the best sites on the web. cheers.

[YODA]

No problem at all John - That's what the info is there for :D

Which club / Instructor are you training with?

[johndoch]

I train in a new club in my area called Scottish All Styles Martial Arts (SASMA) that has been going for just under 2 years. Its mainly a self defence orientated club with locks, takedowns etc. But also has various other Ma's such as Boxing, Thai boxing, Kung-fu, TKD incorporated into the syllabus. We do some sparring (should be more IMO) and a fair bit of Pad work. Its a good club although not very large however most people who go to it come from various other arts such as Karate, Kung fu and TKD.

[YODA]

Sounds good.

Where does the FMA & Kali triangles fit in? Who did your instructor learn it from?

[johndoch]

He learnt it from a guy who founded the club who I think originally trained at Krauses in glasgow. Iam not sure of the exact details.

The kali triangles are part of the footwork drills used to get us light on the feet etc. its also used to show how to improve foot placement in techniques. We are encouraged to use the salute
whist performing the drills. As far as FMA is concerned I know very little about it as I mostly trained in Kickboxing and Lau gar Kung-fu so Iam taking the instructors word for it that it is FMA.
We dont do any stick training but have been told that it is later in the syllabus.

[YODA]

Ok - That all makes sense.

[dredleviathan]

Hi Yoda,

I finally got registered for this forum - shame to see the demise of you last one.

I've been using your triangular footwork patterns to help me remrmber the one taught in my own class and think that my footwrok is improving slowly - although I have the grace of a rhino generally.

I'd certainly be happy for any help that you might be able to give on taking these drills to another level.

I here that one of the Dog Bros tape has some good footwork drills too? Have you seen them?

Cheers.

[YODA]

Hi

Glad to see you here :D

The Dog Bros footwork tapes have some very good stuff - highly recommended.

What are you doing with your basic triangles off my site? Just working them as they are there? Adding any upper body tools? With our without a weapon?

[dredleviathan]

Hi Yoda,

Currently I'm just using your drills as they appear on the site which has been a useful isolation exercise for a while as I felt my footwork was behind everything else I do. However as you suggest it would be a good to add in upper body tools and weapons. Do you have some drills that I could begin working by any chance - I'm sensing that you do!

As for the weapons I've been adding in some basic sinawalli like Heaven/Standard/Earth/Odd Six drills. And just playing really...

I'm trying to take a more playful approach at the moment so try and bring my carenza up a bit... I have trouble with this kind of freeplay due to lack of imagination I think.

Anyway cheers for your input - I aim to spread my knowledge as widely and freely as you do just as soon as I accumulate some!

[johndoch]

Quote "As for the weapons I've been adding in some basic sinawalli like Heaven/Standard/Earth/Odd Six drills. And just playing really..."

Hi Dred,

Whats the above about? as it sounds interesting. I have very little knowledge regarding FMA maybe you could explain more.

Cheers

John

[dredleviathan]

Hi John,

The drills I mentioned are basic coordination drills that are taught in the Insoanto-LaCoste blend of Kali i.e. that taught by Guro Inosanto and his instructors. No doubt there are pretty similar patterns taught in other systems and styles (limited number of things you can do with two sticks and two arms right?).

They can to some extent be used combatively too as shown by the Dog Brothers so they aren't just coordination drills but can be thought of a combination strikes. However it all depends on how you train them as with any other technique.

So they are essentially all variations on a six count pattern with two sticks.

You start (in right lead) with the R stick over your shoulder and the L tucked under your R arm - called a closed or serrada chamber.

The first strike is with your R on a #1 angle (diagonal from opponents L shoulder to R hip) and is a lobtik - i.e. a strike that goes all the way through. After, chamber the R stick over the L shoulder.

The second strike is a backhand with the L hand on the #1 angle -again a lobtik. Chamber the L stick in an open position on the L side.

The third strike varies depending on the teacher but is essentially a backhand strike with the R stick that ends up with the R hand chambered under the L arm.

You are now in the serrada chamber on the L side. The next three strikes are the mirror image of the first three i.e. L - R - L and should leave you in the original starting position.

Its hard to explain without pictures: Have a look at Yoda's Eskrima website
http://www.docepares.co.uk/ and click on the solo training section. He calls this a downward six count and teaches the third strike as a flywheel (which I like by the way).

The other three drills are variations on this basic six count.

1) Standard - the second and fifth strikes do not follow the same angle but are rather angled to the floor or as if aiming to strike the knee.

2) Earth - all strike are angled to the floor and you adopt a low stance i.e. one use might be imagining that your opponent has tripped or fallen.

3) Odd six - the first and forth strikes are not lobtiks but witiks (i.e. they are flicks and bounce back to the original position). The third and sixth strikes therefore become the lobtiks. There are various methods of returning the first and third strikes to the original chamber including by rotating around the head or as an umbrella or roof block whilst sending out your second strike.

Again its complex to explain in words but not incredibly difficult to learn with a good partner or instructor.

Like many things they aren't worhth getting too caught up in as they are just training tools which help in the develoment of ambexterity to some extent. Good fun though when you start to pick up speed and mix them up.

By the way these can be done solo or as a partner drill and you can get more complex by each of you randomly doing a drill rather than in a set order - good fun to play with!

Hope that is useful?

[SeekingTheWay]

It's the Inosanto/LACoste system I'm training at the moment and I'm finding it rather confusing at the moment, reading the above is helping me as well as the sites mentioned.

Thanx

Ruth

[dredleviathan]

Hey Seekingtheway,

I know where you are coming from on the confusion front. Stick with it - it does get better. Then just when you think you are getting it your instructor introduces something new or changes something and its all confusing again. I love it.

You're welcome to any of my limited knowledge and the other people on this forum are incredibly generous.

Who do you train with by the way?

[johndoch]

Hey dredd,

hmm, somehow can't play Yoda's demo. I'm at work so I'll put it down to those damn IT people. I think I get the jist of what your explaining cheers. My only stick experience is that I've always played about with sticks and stuff since I was a kid.

Has anyone ever done full contact stick fighting?

[Two Sword]

johndoch,

In our system (as in many other FMA system) we use the triangle footwork pattern to develope all the muscles involved (hip flexors, TFL, Quads, hamstrings...etc) in the foot work used in combat. Enough repition will give you that cat like movement.

More advance footwork exercises teaches a student how to angle from attacks, position the defender in the best possible place to send his counter with as much power as possible to end the confrontation.

Thats pretty much the function of the traingle or angular footwork. Keep the swordsman or stickfighter moving, angeling attacks so he can position himself for a balanced, powerful set of counter attacks. Or an efficient defended retreat that will lead to counter attacks.


We have done full contact stick fighting. Dogbrothers type. I did most of this in my teens. Its a great way to get your attacks and defenses down. Pain is the best way to get your reflexes or engrams refined.


Carl Atienza
Atienza Kali
www.atienzakali.com

[johndoch]

Hi TwoSwords,

Welcome to the forums

"Pain is the best way to get your reflexes or engrams refined."

I agree but the better you get the less pain you take and the more you give. :D

[Two Sword]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

But just like anything else in MA, it another training method.


Now, we do it every once and awile...especially when my brothers and I have technical disagreements.

The majority of the time we at least have gloves on.

Thanks





Carl Atienza
Atienza Kali
www.atienzakali.com

[DeSeRt RaT UK]

Originally posted by Two Sword


Pain is the best way to get your reflexes or engrams refined.



I totally agree with you there. Generally the lessons I learn the most from are the ones I get hit. But then I'm always on guard and ready for that hit next time around.

[Two Sword]

Yes...

Then your opponent figures out another way..you learn how to defend against that..so on so forth. And the sting of the stick accelerates that process.

Like I said ..that is one way. There are others that you can do that don't hurt as much...


Carl Atienza
www.Atienzakali.com

[YODA]

Originally posted by Two Sword
There are others that you can do that don't hurt as much...


....... but I find the validity to my personal development to much higher when learned by painful experience :D

[Two Sword]

Yes...its one of the best ways to organize your reflexive arsenal.


carl
www.atienzakali.com

[goatnipples2002]

I don't practice any particular art, I'm more of a street fighter trying to "organize" my skills, I feel "cluttered" at times. I do like the kali footwork patterns because it's simple and to the point no ********, I love that.

I am wondering to throw a proper leg destruction what do you do? I pradtice them now and in need of some reassuring words. I feel it never hurts to check your progress. What is the proper form and the pros and cons of leg destructions?

[tarkovsky2002]

Hey, Yoda.
I know this thread is as old as dirt, but I caught it while goggling. Appreciate the link to the footwork pages. You mentioned that you had some variations if one were interested. I definitely would be.
Also, which Dog Brothers videos would you most recommend for footwork? Thanks.