Here some thoughts

[smokalot]

Salam hormat.

Hi guys, i was fascinated with your knowledge of silat, since i was indonesian
myself but i know little of it...especially the technicals one.
anyway i was browsing the net to find more about silat for my research of my finals, then i stumble into this forum. i have read most of the threads and i must admit i found most valuable info from you guys. so i would like to thanks you all for making my task easier.

I like to share some thoughts with you guys...i used to lived in surakarta/solo in central java.
In there the words pencak silat is somehow always connected with..inner force, inner power, tenaga dalam etc.

in 1996 i was a teenager with too much time to kill so i decided to do something with that.
it was the era of action movie with martial arts in it, kung fu mostly (jet lee is already famous in country at that time) but theres not much of kungfu club in my town so i joined a silat club called merpati putih. i found that this silat club is practising inner force. in fact it doesnt do much martial arts. i wasnt very happy to found that since i came from community that into "real things". but i already paid anyway so i went there for couple weeks. Beginner session is sooo boring since most of our training is only breathing excersise, meditation, focusing etc. I was about to drop this class until one of the guru come the the class and do something i wont forget for all my life.

the guru is 40s old woman. she came to class and asked for 6 volunteer, and i was one of the six since i was curious about what was she going to do. she asked 6 of us to imagine shes a punching bag and we should charge forward to punch, touch, kick or slam the bag. and who ever at least manage to touch her would get some money from her, she took the money from her wallet showed to us and put it on the floor in front of her. thats all i need...six of of us charging on to her(i was charging for on to the money ), one even screaming. i was 1 meter close to her and then suddenly i feel my body thrown back couple meters and then i was confused and disoriented. i dont know what happen but i think i lost my control over my mind and my body for awhile that moment.

You could just say i have a different point of view after that. i was excited and ready to
to do more training until, again, i found that means more breathing excercise. well i got bored ,drop the class and take a guitar class instead.

But before leaving i have a talk to one of the guru. he said something that i want to share
with you guys.
I was asking him the usual how,when,why about inner force.
What he says doesnt really explain it. But he do thinks that inner force is something human and natural and it is in you since you were born, its like hairs that grows in your body, every body has it. Its like human emotion, you cant see it but you can feel its there.
Lots of people says its has something to do with mental or spiritual, or maybe religious things. Well in fact its beyond those things, connecting inner force with those things is just an effort to make it inclusive.
the fundamental basics of inner force is breathing excercise and Focusing. so any styles,
any arts, any form that practising breathing excercise and focusing is actually practising inner force.
It is a dynamic thing, no one knows to what it can evolved.
Of course no science can actually explain it, but science also cant (yet?) explain telephatic or telekinetic even thou science recognize it( he might be wrong about that)
It is said that we only used 30 percent of our brain capability and we dont even know what the rest 70 percent is for. isnt it is a posibility that theres might be more that our body and mind can do?, maybe we just dont know it yet.

Doesnt that intriquing you? i mean what if we can actually be a jedi?
i dont know about you but i think im agree with him...

Hormat
EDO

[YODA]

I think you've been smoking a lot, smokalot :rolleyes:

[smokalot]

ha its one of my breathing excercise man...

[Intan86]

Too bad you don't have enough patience and your young and boiling blood just gave it all up.

[smokalot]

maybe i shouldnt gave it up easily...but right now im into music and you cant impress chicks with trhowing people without touching them.

tapi awak benar silat is beatiful art...but as long as im concern so is the other martial art. What really in my mind is about the inner power.
you came from families that practising it right? you know my side of opinion about it. why dont you tell me yours?

[Intan86]

maybe i shouldnt gave it up easily...but right now im into music and you cant impress chicks with trhowing people without touching them.

tapi awak benar silat is beatiful art...but as long as im concern so is the other martial art. What really in my mind is about the inner power.
you came from families that practising it right? you know my side of opinion about it. why dont you tell me yours?

Bagi saya, saya tidak begitu percaya yang seseorang itu dapat melawan musuh dengan jelingan sahaja. Tidak masuk akal. However, silat have great hand techniques just like wing chun, JKD, and groundfighting techniques. It all depends on the principle of the silat style. Silat saya tidak ada groundfighting. Only hand techniques. My uncle said, if you want to learn groundfighting (just for precautions), you learn silat cekak. Because silat sendeng and silat cekak are like brothers/sisters...adik-beradiklah kiranya tu. Selain daripada silat, awak ada belajar martial art lain ke? Saya 1st dan black belt in TKD. And errmm... I think you're a little wrong about impressing a chick with your musical talent (altough I admit I might be impressed), I love a man who knows Martial Art and especially if he has the BODY.

[krys]

Silat saya tidak ada groundfighting. Only hand techniques. My uncle said, if you want to learn groundfighting (just for precautions), you learn silat cekak. Because silat sendeng and silat cekak are like brothers/sisters.

Silat sendeng has only hand techniques? Is it close to wing chun?

I think you're a little wrong about impressing a chick with your musical talent (altough I admit I might be impressed), I love a man who knows Martial Art and especially if he has the BODY.

Haha I am always impressed by good looking chicks who know martial arts... unfortunately I can't meet any in the place I live right now..... :cry:

[smokalot]

Nope saya tidak belajar apa apa lagi...its a shame though, but if you live where i live, you will find martial arts will do nothing more than hobbies, something you do, or maybe something you learn in the army...To protect yourself? you will buy a gun instead, which is now you can buy freely...cheap. this place is in its maximum screw up. sigh


the BODY?

[amirul_tekpi79]

peace to all

Dear Krys, Silat Sendeng, as far as i know, have some similarities with Wing Chun, namely the use of hands as means of attacking, defending, parrying etc and implementing fast reflexes in all their actions.

However, Silat Sendeng (in particular Silat Sendeng Muar/Malaysia) does not face the opponent in the way Wing Chun warriors do, i.e. both shoulders are facing the enemy. Silat Sendeng's fighting philosophy requires the throat, the heart, the stomach and the reproductive area (what Malays call 'penyawa' or life) to be fully protected. For this particular reason does a Sendeng warrior 'slant' his/her body in a way that is almost the same as a Tae Kwon Do warrior readies to spar. FYI, 'sendeng' is translated to mean 'to slope, to slant, to lean'.

Just my few cents...
peace

[amirul_tekpi79]

salaam or peace

Dear Intan86,

I sent you a private message just now. Thanks.

[krys]

Thanks for answering amirul_tekpi79.

Silat sendeng sounds very interesting.....
I read in your bio that you practice silat kuntau tekpi.... is this art a form of silat influenced by kuntau? I have never seen kuntau in Indonesia-Malaysia just heard it is the name used for some chinese martial arts practiced in SEA (in the Philippines it is kuntaw).Are there some common principles-patterns in the different kuntau systems found in Malaysia-Indonesia ?
Peace.

[amirul_tekpi79]

Peace to all,

Dear Krys,

I'm only a beginner in Silat Kuntau Tekpi but i'll try to answer your questions to the extent of my knowledge.

Silat Kuntau Tekpi originates from the state of Kedah (north peninsula Malaysia). It was practiced by the royalties and 'panglima-panglima istana' or palace master warriors since the 1700s.

This silat can trace its history to the time of Panglima Taib bin Wan Hussin. He passed down the system to his daughter Siti Aminah binti Taib, who later passed down to her son Pak Guru Zainol Abidin. Pak Guru passed away last year and now presently his son Pak Guru Sani is the new Guru Utama and Pewaris of Silat Kuntau Tekpi.

Silat Kuntau Tekpi was originally known only as Silat Tekpi. FYI, Tekpi is the Sai weapon you can find amongst Karate practioners. It is the main weapon of Silat Kuntau Tekpi other than Keris.

The name 'Kuntau' was added to the original name by Pak Guru Sani to differentiate this style of silat with other styles that coincidentally had the same name. This was important due to the fact that the law in Malaysia states that silat schools/styles must be registered to be legal. In other words, 'Silat Kuntau Tekpi' is just the registered name, whereas 'Silat Tekpi' is the true name.

However, according to Pak Guru Sani, the name 'Kuntau' has significance because in Malaysia, 'Kuntau' can also mean (in Silat context) 'hard & fast' which is typical in Silat Tekpi.

About kuntau in Malaysia in general, i don't have any authority in the matter. You have to ask those who really knows, i.e Kuntau practioners in Malaysia themselves.

Tha's all for now. Hope this answered your question.
Peace

[Bayani]

Greetings,
Saya nama bayani,
I had the pleasure of studying merpatih putih (white dove) while training with your Indonesian military. Correct me if i am wrong but is it not the official system of your military? yes the djurus seem boring at first but the deep stances and hard impact motions compiled with breathing really helped me develop more power in striking. In our training it has allowed for longer stamina and inner strength. We ran farther did calithenics better even when in full gear. I have seen the demonstrations of several silat systems and have been part of such phenomena to atest to something strange this way comes. To further realize this my sponsors in the military took me to bandung to show me another internal silat style. I studied with an internal force system who's system is ALL breathing, nothing more than moves and forms with breathing...then they spar...which is also all breathing. there is no touching at all. I being the doubter had to get in to feel this blow...no blows here...just a total loss of energy as I fell to the ground. Psychological? who knows and I don't smokalot...maybe hit on the head many times with rattan sticks though.

This too you will find in the Russian arts of systema, very similar.

teriMakasih.

[RobP]

The systema work is psychological rather than "telekinetic". There is a strong emphasis on breathing, which in itself is largely psychological training and, of course, no forms, but there is plenty of contact.

[Bayani]

exactly, would it not be interesting if they are the same? just different avenues to arrive at the same result. both emphasize the importance of breathing, the psychic energy of systema which is psychological then you have silat systems some of which you wonder how much is based on being psychosomatic and some being metaphysical? either way i find the breath training important and effective.

krys, you are here too? wow, FMA, Silat, Ross....I wonder if we have crossed paths..bet you we know the same people somewhere .

[krys]

exactly, would it not be interesting if they are the same?

I believe internal training in silat seems to be faith-metaphysical based and systema-ROSS psychological although I am sure christian Orthodox faith may also have it's place in russian internal practices... both systems seem to achieve similar results in the end...

Systema and silat have many similarities.... systema-ROSS actually helps me to better understand silat....

My t.p (he is a sceptic :) ) told me his systema instructor moved behind him and did some manipulation (without touching him) after this he felt all strength was leaving him and he fell down......

Silat breathing is important and effective.... but it takes some time to practice: the body and mind have to be prepared before or very serious health problems will occur....

krys, you are here too? wow, FMA, Silat, Ross....I wonder if we have crossed paths..bet you we know the same people somewhere .

haha who knows..... we seem to be drawn to the same mas.....

I too was in Indonesia (Sumatra, Java, Bali) but didn't really practice there....
In Asia I had the opportunity to learn silat Gayong in Malaysia (near Kuala Lumpur) and study a filipino silat system right now...

[smokalot]

Greetings,
Saya nama bayani,
I had the pleasure of studying merpatih putih (white dove) while training with your Indonesian military. Correct me if i am wrong but is it not the official system of your military?.

Merpati putih was never the primary official system of our military, if there was one it would be karate. Others is just an electives one. For what I know Silat and government was rarely in good relation.

[krys]

Merpati putih was never the primary official system of our military, if there was one it would be karate. Others is just an electives one.

What about kopassus troops? Do they learn silat?

[smokalot]

Kopassus? i dont know...they could be. but my guess is as good as yours.
see my father is in military, i happen to have seen his martial arts certificates, and its all is karate. but he might have do others that i didnt know of.

you know you could ask any of 200 million people in indonesia about kopassus
and they would answer the same thing, we have learn to stay away from them.

[Bayani]

Merpati putih was never the primary official system of our military, if there was one it would be karate. Others is just an electives one. For what I know Silat and government was rarely in good relation.


Hmmm I beg to differ, the people I trained with were Military and were all in the same unit and practiced Merpatih together. Could have been an individual unit thing but I have spoken to other Military personnel who are quite familiar with the system . I also knew some people working for a former Indonesian diplomat, their security also knew Merpatih Putih. To say that karate is the system of the military is pure folly! Merpatih does employ deep stances and some forms do look very much like karate stances so maybe this is where you might mistake the two as being the same.

[smokalot]

Hmmm I beg to differ, the people I trained with were Military and were all in the same unit and practiced Merpatih together. Could have been an individual unit thing but I have spoken to other Military personnel who are quite familiar with the system . I also knew some people working for a former Indonesian diplomat, their security also knew Merpatih Putih. To say that karate is the system of the military is pure folly! Merpatih does employ deep stances and some forms do look very much like karate stances so maybe this is where you might mistake the two as being the same.

Yes, you could be right. but i do notice this : in every national or provincial karate tournaments, the army is always have their representatives competing.
i dont know about others, but here the army is always actives in every nationals level sports competition(well they always their hands on everything), strangely not with silat. its also goes to their own internal sport tournaments, no silat. do you know that silat was committed as an martial arts events in our national sports competitions probably just 5 or 7 years ago,
despite their existency from hundreds years ago. before that its only considered as dance culture or something.

[Garuda]

I also heard from several friends and relatives in Indonesia that he Kopassus do train silat and that the style is Merpati Putih. In Holland MP is also closely connected to the Indonesian Embassy.

Garuda...

[Crucible]

I wrote this great post, and then I deleted it. Oh, well....
In Chinese Internal arts we call this Empty Force. Its commonly associated with practitioners who have had a longterm standing(Zan Zhang) practice. Which is probably why its considered a staple I-Chaun practice where its used to develop a students enegetic sensitivity. If you've never seen I-Chaun its principle practice is standing. The book series "Warriors of Stillness" is specificly about standing practicies in regard to projecting force though I believe only one covers I-Chaun and empty force. A high level Nei Chia Chaun(Chinese Internal Boxer) that I spoke with told me its basicly real, but its more an exercise in energetic sensitivity, you wouldn't be able to apply that against a high level practitioner. Note, that this refers to empty force and the indonesion mechanics might be somewhat diffrent. I have seen footage of Kumar Frantzis throwing someone without contact, but he stated in the same video he would need a fully commited opponent to pull it off. It looked very similar to the systema footage someone mentitioned.

Regarding Merpatih Putih, I showed some footage to Hadji Yasheer Tanadjalan, and he knew some of the people on the tape. He said thier tenaga dalam was good. He actually took some classes but stopped cause of his back(he might have been joking with me). Grandmaster Johny Chuiten of Balintawak, Pronus Supineous and Lapunti Arnis de Abaniko also practicies an Indonesion school of inner power development Tetada Kalimasada. If you read O'ong Maryono's book there's a good chapter on the rise and development of inner power schools in Indonesia in response to the growing popularity of Chi Gung and Taiji. And if you have Cecil Quirino's "Crossing the Sulu seas" Documentry, available at Kris Cutlery, there's a Sinar Putih demonstration of Empty Force/Tenaga Dalam.
Regards

[krys]

Hello Crucible, I pmd you....

Regarding Merpatih Putih, I showed some footage to Hadji Yasheer Tanadjalan, and he knew some of the people on the tape. He said thier tenaga dalam was good. He actually took some classes but stopped cause of his back(he might have been joking with me).

:) I think guro Yasser doesn't have any problems with his back, he is still very fit. Actually I've never met a faster silat player .... I believe he is so strong because of his tenaga dalam... If you are interested there is a I-Chuan expert in Manila, but he only speaks chinese.

[Crucible]

This might be a question for a diffrent forum, but do you know any of the Wu style Taiji players in Manilla? I understand Christopher Ricketts was studying the Wu form. Would you know if he's continued in his practice?

[krys]

I know one good Yang style player in Manila... nothing about Wu style... From what I understood some Taichi (don't know the style) and occasionally Taizu players are in touch with the Kalis Illustrissimo group... I also heard some Chen stylists practice in Manila but don't know where. If you are looking for information on CMAs I am sure Alex Co may be able to help you.

[Crucible]

There was a Qi gong doctor my mother was seeing here in San Francisco. Mostly worked with magnets and Electro acupuncture. He liked take his medical assitants "energy field" and envelope it around something living like a banana. He would then slice the banana in two, and turn one banana half 360 degrees so that the polarities were changed. She(the assitant) would imediatly grimmace in pain, or suddenly go weak and limp.
He also showed footage of himself projecting force through a Bo staff. He would have a volunteer run at him from a distance, maybe 15-20 ft. Then he would lift up the staff piont it dead center at the person, invaribly they would coil, back up and react as struck and in deep physical pain. Sometimes they would continue to move forward but the pain seemed to increase as they got closer to the instrument of projection. It looked very similar to what you see in footage of Merpatih Putih or Sinar Putih. He also seemed to be able to intensify the sensation by thrusting the staff in the direction of the volunteer. Then he would interview the people afterwards ask them how it felt. The footage looked like somewhere in Golden Gate park in San Francisco.
Intrestingly, the gentleman was japanese and his only martial background was jujitsu. The quality of his touch was a lot rougher than the internal players I'm used to. So, I doubt he was doing any standing Nei Gung. My sense is he probably had a very good sense of the human energy field, through his energy practice and other things, and played around untill figured things out.
There's a couple other guys like this floating around japan teaching breathing exercises. From what I've read most japanese martial artists don't take them seriously.