[Capoeira] Capoeira in the Olympics

[M3inline6]

I happened to run across some interesting information about Capoeira in the Olympic games, and thought I'd ask what my fellow Capoeiristas thought about it. At first I was under the assumption that they were actually making it an Olympic sport, but other information has led me to believe that it will only be a performance. In either case, I'm unsure how I feel about Capoeira finding it's way into the mainstream Olympics. I guess it's both positive and negative. Am I sounding a bit selfish? What are your thoughts on the issue?

Here are a few links:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0823918599/mindconnection/102-5131384-6135356

http://capoeirista.com/calendar/index.php?op=view&id=18

[diligentmantis]

Hi , I reckon that if capoeira does go in the olympics either as a sport or just as a performance art it cannot do it any harm, it may bring and encourage people to train in it either as a martial art or as a dance art , it is steadly growing in uk , Ref your vido clip from our BBC 1 channel. we also have tai chi on the same channel.


Do you fnd that Hwrang Do and Capoeira compliment each other?


Regards Sean

[M3inline6]

Hi , I reckon that if capoeira does go in the olympics either as a sport or just as a performance art it cannot do it any harm, it may bring and encourage people to train in it either as a martial art or as a dance art , it is steadly growing in uk , Ref your vido clip from our BBC 1 channel. we also have tai chi on the same channel.


Do you fnd that Hwrang Do and Capoeira compliment each other?


Regards Sean


Thanks for your insight! What exactly is the BBC 1 channel? I found this clip fortuitously, and have since watched that clip over and over again. I love it so much in fact, that I am trying to find somebody to put the background music on a CD so I can practice to it. :D

As for your style question.....I find that the movements in Capoeira are contrary to those found in Hwa-Rang-Do, although most of Capoeira's kicks (minus meia lua de compasso) are found in the other arts as well....i.e...Chapa (sidekick), martelo (roundhouse), etc. Because Capoeira has no blocks, I had to train myself all over again, so the top blocks, cross blocks, etc. that were used in Hwa-Rang-Do are now non-existent. Also, the use of the ginga causes you to apply kicks differently as well. The good thing about Hwa-Rang-Do is that it helped me develop powerful kicks prior to my Capoeira training, so all I had to do was variate the applications for use in the ginga. I also had to take the "snap" out of my kicks, as Capoeira kicks are devoid of it. I plan to train in BJJ once I feel proficient enough in Capoeira (which is going to be a long while). I want to give Capoeira my all, so that is my direct focus.

[planetcapoeira]

Out of curiousity, does the ginga in conjunction with your kicks seem to make your kicks more responsive than say a style like your former one which has a more static base? And since you are blocking less, do you find yourself countering more? I mean instead of block & counter more like making the counterattack part of the esquiva?

[M3inline6]

Out of curiousity, does the ginga in conjunction with your kicks seem to make your kicks more responsive than say a style like your former one which has a more static base? And since you are blocking less, do you find yourself countering more? I mean instead of block & counter more like making the counterattack part of the esquiva?


That's a good question. With Capoeira having two bases (advance base and back base), it really just depends on the kick. Armada, queixada, and meia lua de frente definitely benefit from the use of the ginga, as opposed to a static stance. I feel that my martelo benefits the most from the back base, which is very similar to your basic stance in Hwa-Rang-Do. It's more powerful for me than if I advance, and then martelo. I feel the same way with regards to the basic Chapa as well. However, using the ginga and kicking from the back base, a spinning Chapa (chapa de "something" :D ) works very well. It's very similar to a spinning back kick in Hwa-Rang-Do.

Since I don't block, I find that I counter more when I evade, or move with the attack. I still have the tendency to esquiva, and add nothing more. I'm getting better though! :D The way that the evasions work in Capoeira definitely compliment my body. I feel more "at ease" using the evasions than I did blocking in Hwa-Rang-Do. I try my best to practice evasions alot because there are so many ways to get "inside" an opponent.

[diligentmantis]

Hi BBC Stands for British Broadcasting Corparation It is our oldest Channel , I could find out the name of the music they use , I will contact the bbc here in london. Capoeira is still young in uk , Although there are a few schools in my local area . I have not had the time to go and see them. But i will in the near future. I think that this is one style that few trad arts have fought against , i wounder how trad arts would cope with all the spining and no blocking of capoeira. This is not to say they can't . but I'm sure the capoeira Techniques would suprise a few people.

regards sean

[M3inline6]

Hi BBC Stands for British Broadcasting Corparation It is our oldest Channel , I could find out the name of the music they use , I will contact the bbc here in london. Capoeira is still young in uk , Although there are a few schools in my local area . I have not had the time to go and see them. But i will in the near future. I think that this is one style that few trad arts have fought against , i wounder how trad arts would cope with all the spining and no blocking of capoeira. This is not to say they can't . but I'm sure the capoeira Techniques would suprise a few people.

regards sean

Thanks Diligentmantis. Whatever you can find out about the background music on that commercial would be greatly appreciated. Good luck on your quest to further your knowledge on Capoeira.

[mountainsage]

Before you Capoeira folk get excited about the prospect of Olympic inclusion, look at the genesis of martial arts like judo and TKD and their fall from grace that can be directly connected to their olympic debutes. Please don't mess with an art with such grace and beauty combined with excellent attacking and defending ability. I am not a practicer, but an avid fan of your style.


Mountainsage

[valetudo74]

I have never really seen or heard about any interest expressed by the International Olympic Committee where it has formally invited Capoeira into its demonstration sports for a trial run, similar to how Tae Kwon Do was introduced back in 1988.

Wasn't there a rumor circulating a few years back about the Brazilian Confederation of Capoeira having problems with judges (who have no Capoeira training) scoring Olympic Capoeira events? There would be no way Capoeira games or music could be scored properly without judges who are also Capoeiristas. IMO, internationally recognized Mestres, representing their respective groups, should be the ones judging any and all events that would take place.

What kind of events would there be? Floreio competitions? Jogos where points are given for attacks/counterattacks? Music competition for best original Capoeira music score? Best group roda?

[Guy Mendiola]

This may sound dumb but they could feature a tournament on contact Capoeira like playful sparring but with contact.

[M3inline6]

Before you Capoeira folk get excited about the prospect of Olympic inclusion, look at the genesis of martial arts like judo and TKD and their fall from grace that can be directly connected to their olympic debutes. Please don't mess with an art with such grace and beauty combined with excellent attacking and defending ability. I am not a practicer, but an avid fan of your style.


Mountainsage


I hope I wasn't misinterpreted. I actually don't want Capoeira to be in the Olympics. That's as mainstream as it gets, and I'd be fairly unhappy if that happened. I don't have any control over what goes on in the grand scheme of things however.



I have never really seen or heard about any interest expressed by the International Olympic Committee where it has formally invited Capoeira into its demonstration sports for a trial run, similar to how Tae Kwon Do was introduced back in 1988.

Wasn't there a rumor circulating a few years back about the Brazilian Confederation of Capoeira having problems with judges (who have no Capoeira training) scoring Olympic Capoeira events? There would be no way Capoeira games or music could be scored properly without judges who are also Capoeiristas. IMO, internationally recognized Mestres, representing their respective groups, should be the ones judging any and all events that would take place.

What kind of events would there be? Floreio competitions? Jogos where points are given for attacks/counterattacks? Music competition for best original Capoeira music score? Best group roda?


That is an interesting point you bring up. I know from reading Nestor's books that they did have sanctioned Capoeira Competitions, but it didn't really work too well.

As far as scoring/events, your guess is as good as mine. :confused: :D

[shoto-kali]

here's the Olympic website of 'RECOGNIZE' olympic sport; watch the word 'recognize' not official ....

http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/recognized/index_uk.asp

[valetudo74]

I hope I wasn't misinterpreted. I actually don't want Capoeira to be in the Olympics. That's as mainstream as it gets, and I'd be fairly unhappy if that happened. I don't have any control over what goes on in the grand scheme of things however.






That is an interesting point you bring up. I know from reading Nestor's books that they did have sanctioned Capoeira Competitions, but it didn't really work too well.

As far as scoring/events, your guess is as good as mine. :confused: :D

ABADA Capoeira has their own world games, which they score according to a system they've developed within their own group. I believe Mestre Camisa came up with the scoring system.

[planetcapoeira]

That's right valetudo74, ABADA capoeira has their own capoeira competitions that they do regionally and globally (every three years). Being an ex-ABADA-er myself I attended/participated in one of these events. They're OK. While I think these types of competitions are OK, and have a history in Capoeira in the last 25 years or so, they just seem to kill something in the capoeira game.

That being said the ABADA scoring system is kinda neat, wherein it judges the overall game, not the individuals. If you were one of the two players in a particular game judged highly that would affect your particular ranking in the competition. The criteria the judges look for is the flow, fluidity, interaction and development in a game. Can it involve hard hits and takedowns? Yes, but they were pretty low on the scorecard. The game would be scored higher if for example you were able to do a rasteira AND the other player maybe fell but instantly recovered into another movement, etc. At least the rules kept it form turning into a "who could kick whose a**" type of affair. Each player would have to play in two or three games in three different toques - Angola, Benguela & Sao Bento Grande.

Ties were broken by berimbau playing and singing...

Not a bad system - but I have no idea how that would work in the Olympics...and as cool on one level it would be to say Capoeira could be an Olympic event - I think it'd kill it overall...

[M3inline6]

That's right valetudo74, ABADA capoeira has their own capoeira competitions that they do regionally and globally (every three years). Being an ex-ABADA-er myself I attended/participated in one of these events. They're OK. While I think these types of competitions are OK, and have a history in Capoeira in the last 25 years or so, they just seem to kill something in the capoeira game.

That being said the ABADA scoring system is kinda neat, wherein it judges the overall game, not the individuals. If you were one of the two players in a particular game judged highly that would affect your particular ranking in the competition. The criteria the judges look for is the flow, fluidity, interaction and development in a game. Can it involve hard hits and takedowns? Yes, but they were pretty low on the scorecard. The game would be scored higher if for example you were able to do a rasteira AND the other player maybe fell but instantly recovered into another movement, etc. At least the rules kept it form turning into a "who could kick whose a**" type of affair. Each player would have to play in two or three games in three different toques - Angola, Benguela & Sao Bento Grande.

Ties were broken by berimbau playing and singing...

Not a bad system - but I have no idea how that would work in the Olympics...and as cool on one level it would be to say Capoeira could be an Olympic event - I think it'd kill it overall...

Thanks for that valuable insight ValeTudo & PlanetCapoeira. Do they ever videotape those ABADA events?

[valetudo74]

Thanks for that valuable insight ValeTudo & PlanetCapoeira. Do they ever videotape those ABADA events?

i would imagine so, but planet would know better than i.

[vadha1]

think of it this way, if the slaves that created it kept it a secret you wouldnt have been introduced to it. its always nice to open people eyes to any form of ma..

[M3inline6]

think of it this way, if the slaves that created it kept it a secret you wouldnt have been introduced to it. its always nice to open people eyes to any form of ma..

Well, it isn't an issue of keeping it to oneself and not sharing it with the world. The issue stems from the fact that Olympic involvement further dilutes the game!