Kicking types and dynamics

[waya]

I have noticed a large degree of differences between kicking in the Japanese, Chinese, and Korean arts.
When I was training Shotokan full time as my main art, there were two side kicks, a snap and a thrust kick using more of the hips, and the round kick struck with the ball of the foot. The front kick was also more of a thrust kick than a snapping kick, also utilizing the hips to push through.
Now being involved in Korean arts I have run into the rear and front leg hook kicks (which give me no end of trouble. And the varying types of snapped spinning kicks. I'd like to hear about the different types of kicking and their mechanics in various arts and schools.

[Freeform]

I've noticed that the korean styles prefer a circular kicking style and the japanese are more linear.

[Andy Murray]

A personal favorite was to throw a spinning kick, but keep the leg chambered and throw a round kick as I completed the spin. In most chinese systems, the front and round kicks are snapped, though kicks in Wing Chun are usually kept below the waist.

[Chazz]

The two kinds of side kicks we use it one with the heel of the foot and the other called a spear side kick, used with the blade of the foot. We use a lot of low, mid, and high front kicks and snap kicks. I use a mix of a lot of different hooks, round kicks and ax kicks.

Our snap kicks are done like a quick punch. Done quick and hard but not as much force. Other kicks are thrusted with the hips and pivoted and jammed into our targets.

-Chazz

[waya]

I generally thrust and snap most of my kicks, my front kicks snap then I use my hips to thrust through the target. My right side kick strikes with the blade of the foot while the left uses the heel. I do turning hook and wheel kicks with a chambered leg, as well as a spinning front kick that works really well sparring since I can turn most kicks along my body with it during the spin and open the entire front of my opponent to a strike. Round kicks I strike with the top of my foot vs using the ball from that angle.

The Japanese kicks are alot more linear (as with most everything else involved in them). I have had alot of luck kicking in tournaments against Japanese artists because of this as well since they are not used to the circular attack.

Rob

[Chazz]

That sounds about like me any my kicks

Chazz

[waya]

I have alot of trouble with hip flexor pain in the lead and rear leg hook kicks though :-( I am hoping to figure out what I am missing so I can fix that since I love the kicks and see tons of applications for them

[Andy Murray]

I sympathise with that Waya. A medical person could give the best answer, but I reckon your hips either work that way or they don't. I bet you wish you had worked harder at the stretching when you were younger. I know I do.

Any of you guys or guyettes using leg weights? Found em quite useful when I was doing points fighting!

[waya]

Actually when I was younger I did splits beyond 180 degrees LOL.
Since breaking my knee I can only hit about 160 or so but I can't hold the stretch anymore. I think that all the time off my feet and not stretching made my hip muscles tighten beyond where I can stretch them like that again.

I use ankle weights and those resistance bands when I kick to help with speed and kicking power.

[Andy Murray]

Resistance bands? You mean one end on your foot, the other end on your waist or something?

[waya]

I anchor the other end to the floor.... Too afraid I will knock myself over if I anchor it to me. It's alot like attaching a rubberband to one leg and kicking against the pull.

[Andy Murray]

Just watch it doesn't snap!. Then you are in trouble

[waya]

LOL yeah, flat on my face

[Andy Murray]

I was thinking more of the family allowance mate. lol

[waya]

LOL yeah I think I'd prefer landing on my face *cringes*.

I use that in combination with 2-5 pound ankle weights and get alot of results though so "hopefully" it never snaps LOL

[Andy Murray]

And you wonder why you have hip problems!

[Andrew Green]

Just thought I'd point out that if you're using weights, you really ought to be hitting something, not kicking air, otherwise your knees aren't going to like you for long.

As for kicks, depends, proper kick for the proper goal.

Open tournament fighting will let you get away with a lot of really dumb things. TKD sparring is a different thing, real life is a different thing.

I do snap kicks to the groin, inside of the thigh, occasionally mid section. (usually toe tip, sometimes ball of foot.)

Thrust kicks to the hip joint, knees. (heel)

Round kicks, hitting with the shin, to the legs, very rarely ribs, very very rarely head.

and like knees quite a bit too.

Everything else is modifications on those.

[Andy Murray]

Just thought I'd point out that if you're using weights, you really ought to be hitting something, not kicking air, otherwise your knees aren't going to like you for long.

In my case, I just used to wear them for a few hours prior to a match. If I was training with them, it would be to work the muscle groups at the top of the leg, the ones that lift it for a kick. I would do sets of leg lifts with a straight leg to either side. Another use is to lie on your back with your legs open ( steady boys) and let the weights push your legs down nice and gentle. This can also be used to strengthen the muscles inside the thigh, and all without the strain to the knee joints.

In Robs case I would guess that the resistance provided by the stretching bands is actually better than hitting an object, as the bands restrict the ballistic movement logarithmically. In fact kicking an object wearing leg weights could potentially be damaging to hip, knee, ankle and lower back.

[waya]

Just thought I'd point out that if you're using weights, you really ought to be hitting something, not kicking air, otherwise your knees aren't going to like you for long.

I don't do the kicks at full speed when using weights with resistance. I tend to do low kicks as slow as possible in sets of 10 or 15 the same way I would if I were working on toning my arms.

As far as sparring, I mostly throw lower kicks to the legs or just below the ribs. On the street I would be doing more ankle or knee kicks or some to the front or inside of the thigh, as well as groin kicks or face kicks if they get down low enough. Also on a bent over opponent on the street I will kick into the armpit. That hurts a bit (learned the hard way lol).

Rob

[Ozebob]

It depends on the individual teacher in Shotokan, more than the style, as to what kicks are taught. I know of some rigid instuctors who only teach what they were taught but more and more are expanding their horizons.

In my club we use side snap and thrust kicks and kansetsu geri (attacking the knee joint) in kata and application only.

We utilise roundhouse kicks that snap back using the instep and we use back roundhouse kicks utilising the ball of the foot.. both types for safety. We execute these kicks off either the front or back legs and we use a nifty flying front leg back roundhouse kick as well in competition.

We use spinning back kicks and a jumping spinning back kick as well.

Regards,
Bob

[waya]

The flying roundhouse kick is one I have used but mostly with my rear leg... I picked that up from a TKD instructor before I started in TKD. I didn't pick up alot of kicking in Shotokan, the instructor I was under really was anti kicking for the most part.

[Freeform]

I took up shotokan primaraly to improve my kicking, my personal favorites are low level stuff to the knees,thigh, groin and stomach. Although I do like to put the odd roundhouse into the solar plexus.

Thanx

[Andy Murray]

In Lau Gar we have an unusual kick that I haven't seen elsewhere!

It chambers like a normal front kick, only pointing away from the target. The kick strikes outward with the side of the foot, and with the foot in an upward position. Then it returns to the chamber position. A bit like a crescent kick, that changes it's mind halfway through.

Anybody else got something similar?

[waya]

not something I have trained but I did something like that on accident once lol it worked though :-)

Rob

[hongkongfuey]

Andy - was it not also nicknamed 'through the heart kick' as this was it's intended target?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Our kicks tend to be much more circular, returning naturally into their original chamber at the end of the kick or at least into some similar chamber. We also at no point lock out the knee, so the foot almost always describes some form of circle.

[Pablo]

Andy wrote:
"...an unusual kick that I haven't seen elsewhere!...
...A bit like a crescent kick, that changes it's mind halfway through. Anybody else got something similar?..."


Sounds like one that Hapkido also employs. I forget the number (I want to say 12, but that could have been axe kick), it was referred to informally as a 'push' kick.

paul

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Unusual kicks? Lemme see...

Twisting kick (bring the knee up across the body then twist the leg back round in the opposite direction, not as hard as it sounds but weird-looking)
Heel front kick (normal front kick, but a higher chamber followed by a stamping type motion to the front, aimed at the chest and through)
Outwards crescent kick (think of a crescent kick, but going the other way and hitting with the outside of the foot instead of the inside)

[Joseki]

Wing chun kicks are nice (close and personal)

[Freeform]

What are your views on using kiagi(snap) and kokomi(thrust) kicks. Also what do you all think about the difference in training for competition kicks(using the instep) as opposed to 'real' kicks (ball of the foot). Do you find any change in speed/power?

Thanx