Seiza kills my ankles!!!

[juicyc]

HI,

I've recently started studying Aikido. I am not a very flexible person and I am finding that sitting in the seiza position kills my ankles. It is to the point where the pain is taking away from my learning as I am spending my energy dealing with the pain rather than focusing on what the Sensei is demonstrating.

Is this natural? Does it get better? Are there ways to strech my ankles?

Any help is appreciated

Chris Metcalfe

[Dave Humm]

HI,

I've recently started studying Aikido. I am not a very flexible person and I am finding that sitting in the seiza position kills my ankles. It is to the point where the pain is taking away from my learning as I am spending my energy dealing with the pain rather than focusing on what the Sensei is demonstrating.

Is this natural? Does it get better? Are there ways to strech my ankles?

Any help is appreciated

Chris MetcalfeChris,
Under no circumstances should you be enduring pain. Sit in seiza until it becomes a little uncomfortable then ask the instructor so that you can sit crossed legged. Provided you're not slouching, or leaving your legs outstretched for others to fall over (yes I've seen it happen) there shouldn't be a problem.

You will find that with time, you become accustomed to sitting this way although I don't reccomend you sit for extended periods, this is in effect cutting off a large portion of your circulation to the legs. Flexibility will also develop with time and stretching which should be taught in the class.

[Mike O'Leary]

Yes it will get better as you become more flexible. In the meantime try spreading your knees further apart and as Dave said work into it slowly and practice at home.


Mike O'Leary

[StorDuff]

My sensei said that sitting in seiza for too long is also bad for the liver because of some pipe running through the ankle that leads back there. (although he worded it a bit better)

It's hard for me too, not really painful, just not comfortable. I'm not sure if this would work, but it seems like it would. The first stretch we do is where we put out hands on our knees, and bend forward and back leaving the heel down and then do it in circles. Works the ankle and that general area. Hope is helps, if not, get a chair! :o

[aikiwolfie]

There aren't many flexibility exorcises for the ankles. Propabaly because the human ankle isn't realy meant to be that flexible. However there are a few that will help.

The easyest is to simply rotate the foot holding the ankle with one hand and using the other hand to stretch the foot beyond it's normal range. Don't force it too far. Just enough to feel the stretch. Rotate the foot both clock-wise then anti-clock-wise. And sit down while doing this or you will fall over.

The only other exorcise I can think of right now is to sit in the seiza position but up on your toes so you're slightly elevated. Then lean back gently or bounce slightly. I don't know if this actually works. I've never had a problem with sitting in the seiza position.

Like everybody else said, when it gets uncomfortable sit cross legged. But try to endure a little more each time or it'll never improve.

[Kwajman]

Can you explain or post a photo of the seiza position for those of us more uneducated please??? :)

[aikiwolfie]

Sitting seiza is sitting on you're knees with your hands in your lap and your feet tucked under your bum so it rests on your ankles. http://www.bergen-aikidoklubb.com/bilder/seiza.gif

[Kwajman]

Thank you sir.... :)

[Adam]

Daaamn Kwajman, that baby picture of yours gives me on OD of cuteness every time I read a post of yours. Could you scale it down a bit, please? :)

[KickChick]

I found this information on another forum and this might help you out.

You need to proceed performing seiza gradually
These tips may improve your Seiza ....

1. Start with the knees two to three fists apart and sit tall concentrate on your breathing,ie, from the Hara-lower tan tien --diaphram area.

2.When the ankles start to hurt, pull in the knees together to about one fist or totally together. This will take the pressure off the ankles and it goes to the knees. When the knees start to hurt reverse the process(Gyaku).
DO NOT cross the feet or toes or you will unbalance your legs and may injure youself for many reasons related to the meridians in the legs and feet.

3. There is a muscle and tendon on the outside of the lower leg that tightens due to prolonged standing or prolonged sitting doing ZaZen , So if you massage this muscle deeply until it feels better you will be able to progresively sit longer periods. At first the massage of this muscle will hurt but this too in time finally goes away. If you sit too long and you cut off circulation. Take very short steps and push your right fist into the cup of the palm of the left hand. Later you can do Shikko (Samurai walking on knees)walk forwards and backwards and with turns.

Also use a soft surface at first. When you can sit on a wood floor for a longer periods time without discomfort you will have discovered the callouses on your knees! When you have achieved the ability to sit for hours you will have developed extra blood paths in your legs.

For stretch purposes.... You may also use a Jo staff in the nape of your knees to stretch the outer and inner leg muscles and sinews as you sit. At first there is discomfort, but it soon goes away.

A good book on Seiza is a book on Hakko Ryu JuJutsu by a Sensei Palumbo and is available from Palladin Press.
Correct Seiza (http://www.mushinkankendo.com/lesson_one.html)

[Dave Humm]

KickChick...

I'm sure you get this ALL THE TIME.... But..

You are a Hottie !! .. No offence intended :)

[KickChick]

:) thanks

[Dave Humm]

<blushes> Thanks </blushes> ;)


Dave

[aikiwolfie]

eeeeeeeeeeew dave and kickchick are bein all icky over each other ... looks away disgusted....... bleah hands out the buckets lol

[Freeform]

Hey! No flirting on my turf, unless any cute female aikidoka want to do it with me, otherwise no! ;)

[Dave Humm]

Hey.. Sorry guys... When a man's in love.. and all that lol

I mean come on..

She's cute,
Great figure
She's a martial artist

What more would any man want ?

Oh ok, so she's married (Minor detail) LOL :)

No Offence KickChick I'm just being a dreamer. :D

Regards

Dave

[aikiwolfie]

lmao @ When a man's in love ... more like lust Dave there's a difference. Love is expesive. lol

[KickChick]

It takes alot to make me blush (.... well actually not :D )

Freeform you're such a killjoy! :)

... again Dave thank you (also for noting that minor detail ;) )

:love:

[Saz]

Dave... Cold showers are first on your left mate :D

[Dave Humm]

<looks over and see them> Oh ... "Gutted" me thinks ! "Denied" springs to mind.

BTW Chocolate Pop Tarts are tops

LOL :D

Dave

[aikiwolfie]

Cold shower now Dave Kgirl is too young for you ... LOL

[Omicron]

Errm...yes.

Anyways, back to the original topic

HI,

I've recently started studying Aikido. I am not a very flexible person and I am finding that sitting in the seiza position kills my ankles. It is to the point where the pain is taking away from my learning as I am spending my energy dealing with the pain rather than focusing on what the Sensei is demonstrating.

Is this natural? Does it get better? Are there ways to strech my ankles?

Any help is appreciated

Chris Metcalfe

I used to have problems with this position as well. I just started sitting in it at home for as long as possible, but I made sure to stop as soon as I started feeling pain. Do it while you watch TV, or read, or maybe even eat dinner ( :confused: )
Once I had been doing this for a few weeks I found that I had no problems with it anymore.

[KickChick]

I just wanted to be sure that the link I provided didn't get lost in my original reply .... so do check out that Mushinkan Kendo site which also provides several other sitting/bowing/posture positions.

[booksie_girl]

This might seem quite strange, but I used to train swimming, and my coach later told me that swimmers tend to develop highly flexible ankles. I was able to deal with seiza quite well the first time I tried it, maybe it was partially related to that. Try swimming :D

[Tomiki Ryu]

If it's killing me then I will go up to live toes or just sit crosslegged.

[aikinoob]

i have ligament damage in both ankles and one bad knee. sometimes i can sit in seiza for as long as i want and sometimes my knee is acting up and i can only last a few minutes.

once i get up i always have to jump around and shake the numbness out of my legs.

suwari waza is what really kills my knee. this may lead to me quitting aikido, as much as that sucks.

[aikiwolfie]

If suwari waza is causeing you that much trouble speak to your teacher about it and don't do suwari waza any more. It'd be a shame to quite just because of that one little thing. Aikido has a lot more to offer.

Do you know anybody that does Kiatsu? I'm not saying it will fix the ligaments in your knee but the heat from a Kiatsu practitioners hands works wonders for loosening stiffness caused by injuary.