Speed and Technique V.S Strength and Technique

[Yama Tombo]

Which do you think matters?

[Shaolin Dragon]

Hmm... difficult one. I went with speed, because at the end of the day if you aren't fast enough to hit someone it doesn't matter how strong you are. At the same time, if you hit someone a hundred times without enough strength to damage them... the difference is that everybody has weaker spots where it takes less power to cause damage.

Better to have all three:D

[shinguards]

i went to with speed and technique too. i think power comes naturally when you have speed and correctly execute a technique

[Creeper]

I also went with speed and technique. With proper technique, strength is less relevant.

[mountainsage]

Didn't vote. All thing being equal or close to equal strength beats speed and technique. Strength being defined as power and the ability to absorb impact.

Mountainsage

[capaloco]

But all thing being equal or close to equal speed beats strength and technique.

[Hazmatac]

If you practice only on techniqe, the speed and power comes naturally. If you try to apply speed or strength before you have techniqe, you won't have the right techniqe.

[Cougar_v203]

I'm built for speed but I don't have strength even though I workout and using techniques that I have learnt. :eek:

[Ikken Hisatsu]

why does this keep coming up? why not have both? its not a computer game where you have to chooose your stats you know.

[Gyaku]

Ikken Hisatsu: why does this keep coming up? why not have both? its not a computer game where you have to chooose your stats you know.

Creepy, I actually find myself agreeing with you. ;) In the real world you can have it all. Speed, strength, flexibility, just depends how lazy you are.

[New Guy]

Can't compare like this, it depends on how stronger you are than your opponent in speed/strength... say your opponent has X times strength than you, and your speed need to be Y times better than your opponent in order to beat him; you won't be able to beat him if speed is not good enough to overcome your weakness, that is where your speed is faster but not greater or equal to Y times faster. Just think, there will be a case where your opponent is twice as strong as you are, but your attack is only 2 mili-seconds faster.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

what part of that is supposed to make sense? and wheres the technique and experience bit? I can beat guys new to muay thai like ragdolls even if they are much stronger than me and almost as fast just because i know what to do.

[cavallin]

my instructor says it is physics. if you hit someone hard, it will do X amount of damage, but if you hit someone fast it multiplies the damage the hard hit did by 10.
doesn't make much sense but hope you get my drift!

[Rebel Wado]

what part of that is supposed to make sense? and wheres the technique and experience bit? I can beat guys new to muay thai like ragdolls even if they are much stronger than me and almost as fast just because i know what to do.

I would agree with Ikken. Technique and experience can go a long way.

Where is the CONTEXT of speed verse strength. Strength is wasted if you don't have good technique when you apply it. Speed is wasted is you don't hit good targets or can't hit the targets with effective power.

I once surprised someone, they stood up too fast and hit their head on the bottom of a table. Almost knocked them out. This took no strength or speed on my part, in fact the more strength and speed the other person had, the harder they hit their head on the table. All it took was a bit of luck/unluck and timing.
:D

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Content removed due to the offensive way in which it was posted

Aegis

[Poop-Loops]

my instructor says it is physics. if you hit someone hard, it will do X amount of damage, but if you hit someone fast it multiplies the damage the hard hit did by 10.
doesn't make much sense but hope you get my drift!

Tell your instructor he needs to actually LEARN physics before he can lecture about it.

PL

[cavallin]

why do people feel the need to be so rude on here?! this is supposed to be a nice place :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo:
first thing i get in the morning when i wake up thanks a lot guys.
:cry:

[New Guy]

what part of that is supposed to make sense? and wheres the technique and experience bit? I can beat guys new to muay thai like ragdolls even if they are much stronger than me and almost as fast just because i know what to do.
Yea yea and there is also thousands of factors out there that affects any fights, even the weather does gives a little advantage/disadvantage sometimes. However in this topic here we are (or the thread starter) considering Speed and Strength only, so treating everything else being equal... a very unlikely event in a real situration so it is all just logic and reasoning under this discussion.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

thats like discussing which car is better and only talking about its straight line acceleration. i.e., dumb.

[Aegis]

Mod note: Keep it civil guys, or the thread will be closed without further warning.

Ikken: I've completely deleted one of your posts in this thread due to the offensive way in which you decided to make your point.


I personally agree that the physics used in this situation was flawed, but explaining why would have been better than just pure criticism.

[Dusty Larson]

You can't have one without the other. Speed and strength combined is power, and power is what you want - not just one. "Speed," comes with experience, confidence and focus. Raw strength comes through lifting heavy stuff and applying it.

[Poop-Loops]

I personally agree that the physics used in this situation was flawed, but explaining why would have been better than just pure criticism.

I have tried and tried, but people don't listen anyway, so why bother? They think that what their Sensei told them is more credible than what a guy studying physics as a profession tells them.

PL

[New Guy]

Of course it is always good to have both, I myself always try to improve anything I can in my art... but there is always someone who is stronger/faster than you, and you may need something else, i.e. technique/stamia to make it up for it... there isn't such thing as fast or slow in a fight, but faster or slower.

[cavallin]

I have tried and tried, but people don't listen anyway, so why bother? They think that what their Sensei told them is more credible than what a guy studying physics as a profession tells them.

PL

give people you dont know a chance. i never said i completely utterly believe what my instructor says is gospel did i!? i'd happily listen to a physicist rather than my instructor on physics, that's just logics. like ageis says, there is no point in being offensive about it.

[Poop-Loops]

This wouldn't be a problem if there were a handful of those people. But the thing is, EVERY TIME a "speed vs strength" or "how do I punch harder?" topic comes up, there are always new people who post a simple relationship (f = ma for instance), simply because they heard an equation somewhere.

You do TKD, right? Well, imagine if your school was really popular, but a lot of people still drop out because you actually have to apply yourself. So lets say you get 10 new people a month. And you have to show them how to tie their belts for at least a week before they get it. That would get REALLY annoying after a while, wouldn't it?

PL

[Aegis]

A week??? A week to learn to tie a belt would be a blessing with most new students! ;)

I think the real heart of this argument is that if you take a base case of someone who can hit, it is next to impossible to categorically state whether hitting harder or faster is better. After all, not only does power come from both speed and weight behind the technique, but also the technique itself matters. Some techniques might well work better when done with more strength than others...

My personal preference is for speed, but with my bodyweight behind it so that if, for example, I'm going for a block and throw combination, my goal is to fluidly move through the sequence with minimum effort, but my bodyweight is there so that if my parry doesn't work, the hard block is still an option. Strength and technique in one. Very difficult to separate the two if all is going according to plan.

[alex_000]

I do boxing&kickboxing and I know they categorize fights by weight not speed. It makes sence.

The reason is that a 150p fighter will almost always loose to a 200p fighter, sad but true.

EDIT- OOOOPS , didn't see that the thread was in the jujitsu forum so ignore my post as i have no experience with the art.

[Doppleganger]

IMO speed is everything in a fight. And power is generated by speed due to basic laws of physics. So you get 2 for the price of 1. Strength doesn't really come into in our MA I thought because if you do the techniques correctly strength is not a factor.

In saying that though having strength certainly does help in less than ideal situations where you might not be able to execute techniques exactly right. Which is just about any situation where you'd need to use your MA.

[Cannonballken]

Alot of you guys had parts and pieces right ...I recommend Bruce lee for inspiration to all speed power ...a real MA has them all (or at least pratices them all(in my opinion but hey like dude said half the people here are trying to be butholes and just plain don't listen ........you guys need help :Angel:
I wish you all well though ...then agian not really I still wanna be the best fighter so stay sucky (jkd)

[Aegis]

Ken: you're 15 and you're on a forum with people who have been training longer than you have been alive. Please TRY not to have quite such a condescending attitude; you won't be able to pull it off well for quite some time anyway, and it isn't welcome even from people who can manage it.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Strength doesn't really come into in our MA I thought because if you do the techniques correctly strength is not a factor.

you say "you thought" which implies that you dont actually know. have you sparred full contact with these techniques? strength plays a role in any martial art.

[Doppleganger]

you say "you thought" which implies that you dont actually know. have you sparred full contact with these techniques? strength plays a role in any martial art.

Right. And of course I went on to say that strength can be very useful to apply techniques in less than perfect situations, which would include sparring matches. I think you missed my point. In theory, Jiu Jitsu techniques do not need strength to be applied correctly, or are you saying otherwise? That's one of its supposed plus points no? Isn't it true that Jiu Jitsu is a good MA for women and other traditionally less strong people because strength is not a prerequisite? Isn't it true that Carlos Gracie learned Jiu Jitsu and was able to defend himself despite being very physically weak? Isn't it true that the application of technique and the use of leverage was the reason why the Gracies were so successful in the UFC?

For the record I happen to agree with you that strength is very useful. It aids EVERY sport not just the Martial Arts. IMO every person doing a sport should weight train. I myself weight train and am physically quite strong. I have sparred full contact in MT and Boxing but not in Jiu Jitsu. I know all about the benefits of strength.

[Covaliufan]

Helio was the weak one.

And as to jiu jitsu, to quote black belt Gene Simco "Thirty pounds of muscle is equivalent to a belt level."

[Ikken Hisatsu]

depends on who you learn bjj from. rickson gracies style of fighting was a lot different than helios.