Seperate Wing Chun Forum?

[CKava]

Well I suggested a survey about this and seeing as how no-one else did it I decidded to get off my lazy ass and make one myself...

I realise this isn't the first time that this suggestion has been batted around but I was just hoping to find out once and for all what the general consensus was about this. Its been pointed out before that it is just one of many styles in the Kung Fu section and while I agree with this I think the popularity and amount of Wing Chun posters means that a specific Wing Chun forum is certainly worth considering. Occasionally the Kung Fu forum ends up looking like a Wing Chun forum anyway. Well anyway, just hoping to find out what the overall consensus is about this and then Ill shut up and go away peacefully :D

(Ive set the poll to last for 20 days that seems more than a fair amount of time for anyone thats interested to post)

[Andy Murray]

What do you feel will be gained by a seperate section CKava?

Will it improve discussion?

Can you pledge more activity and members?

At the moment there are only around ten dedicated WC posters.

[CKava]

Wow I feel like Im writing my manifesto now :)

1. What do you feel will be gained by a seperate section CKava?
It will prevent the Kung Fu section from becoming dominated by Wing Chun threads. It will allow for discussions and queries specifically related to Wing Chun without illiciting groans from the other forum users.

2. Will it improve discussion?
It could well do... providing a specific forum means that it is very likely more Wing Chun specific threads will arise resulting in the opportunity for more productive (and unproductive) discussion.

3. Can you pledge more activity and members?
Personally no I cannot, as I cannot speak for others however I think that if you provide a specific WIng Chun forum not only would it attract more Wing Chunners or those interested in it but it would also possibly illicit more activity from some of the quieter members.

4. At the moment there are only around ten dedicated WC posters.
There are much less than 10 for many other styles which have their own forum and while you might be correct that there are only 10 dedicated posters there are many, many more occasional posters...

[Andy Murray]

And if I suggested to you that ,the MAP ethos is that members don't isolate themselves to their own specific art, but embrace those of others and learn more about how they 'fit in' in the scheme of things?

[jimmytofu]

What do you feel will be gained by a seperate section CKava?

Will it improve discussion?

Can you pledge more activity and members?

At the moment there are only around ten dedicated WC posters.

Conversely, will a WC section be detrimental to the rest of the site?

The only real reason I go to the Kung Fu section is to look for the WC threads.

Plus it will be easier for Posthumandude to find us and tell us just how good grappling is! :D

[jimmytofu]

And if I suggested to you that ,the MAP ethos is that members don't isolate themselves to their own specific art, but embrace those of others and learn more about how they 'fit in' in the scheme of things?

I think you will find that most of the dedicated WC posters are active on other forums already..?

[jroe52]

hmm... we do have alot of wc in the kf forum.

could we name the new forum...
"Wing Chun Kung Fu" so people don't get lost that want to join or are interested?

[CKava]

And if I suggested to you that ,the MAP ethos is that members don't isolate themselves to their own specific art, but embrace those of others and learn more about how they 'fit in' in the scheme of things?Well I would reply that I think that is a very good ethos however does an art having its own specific forum mean this cant happen? If so then does that mean all the styles that have their own specific forums are insular and dont learn anything or contribute to discussions in other sections?

[matreyia]

Conversely, will a WC section be detrimental to the rest of the site?

The only real reason I go to the Kung Fu section is to look for the WC threads.

Plus it will be easier for Posthumandude to find us and tell us just how good grappling is! :D


LOL, man that's funny.

It doesn't matter to me whether there is a separate WC forum or not. I don't plan to do much more yapping in the near future. I will occasionally visit if I have questions or ideas, but other than that, I'll be very busy with training and making films. Good luck to all.

Viet :p

[Andy Murray]

1/ Conversely, will a WC section be detrimental to the rest of the site?

2/ The only real reason I go to the Kung Fu section is to look for the WC threads.

3/ Plus it will be easier for Posthumandude to find us and tell us just how good grappling is! :D

1/ So no arguements for or against then?

2/ My point entirely.

3/ Who?
What's grappling?
Is that a 'gay' thing?

[CKava]

I apologise if Im being a bit slow here but I still dont get whats wrong with someone primarily looking for threads that relate to the style they are studying? Ill bet if you didnt have a TaeKwonDo section that the TaeKwonDo-ists wouldn't bother reading all the other threads, they would probably primarily look for the TaeKwonDo related ones and then read the other ones that interest them. Whats the problem with it? How is that being insular?

Oh and I have another point the Kung Fu forum has 6,347 posts the only one with more is TKD and then the next closest is Weapons which is a general section and then Ninjitsu which has almost half the amount of posts. So my point is that given that (aside from TKD) the most popular styles have about 3,000 posts doesnt the fact that the Kung Fu has twice that amount suggest that a good candidate for a new forum might indeed be the most popular one from that section...

[Andy Murray]

There are more posts about Shou Shu and Lau Gar than Wing Chun?

[jimmytofu]

1/ So no arguements for or against then?

2/ My point entirely.

3/ Who?
What's grappling?
Is that a 'gay' thing?

1/ Hey, that was my question to you..!

2/ The point that I open the book and read my favourite chapter.

3/ FYI, grappling is the best MA for versus videos and for rhetorical arguments.

Doesn't 'general discussion' cover cross fertilisation of styles / topics?

If your MA skills are as good as your diplomacy I salute you!

[CKava]

Really? There are a similar amount of posts and threads and general mentions about Lau Gar and Sho Shu. I guess I must have been viewing things through my selective Wing Chun gaze then... Well anyways, OK how about this then Sho Shu is a style that can only be practiced in a few select places in the states and Lau Gar as far as I know is an art that is majoritively restricted to the UK, where as Wing Chun is a completely international art and I would go as far to say as probably the most popular style of Kung Fu in the world.

Im not arguing by the way that these styles are in anyway lesser styles because of this I just think its a pretty good argument as to why Wing Chun deserves a seperate forum. I mean maybe I would understand a bit better if their wasnt forums for much less popular styles. But I just dont get whats so wrong with the idea of a Wing Chun section? Alot of the counter arguments could equally be used to suggest that their should be NO seperate style forums.

[Greg-VT]

I personally don't think a seperate WC section is nessesary -not to say it won't be in the future.

I say let go for a about 6 months, by that time there be enough demand to keep the thing contantly in use. Then it will be a good idea to start one up.

But for now, it almost has a equal share with the other Kung Fu styles in that section.

I don't think deviding the forum more, with a new section thats not going to get 100% attention is a good idea. A new section has to be worth it, otherwise deviding the forum into more segments can do more harm then good.

[Andy Murray]

Really? There are a similar amount of posts and threads and general mentions about Lau Gar and Sho Shu. I guess I must have been viewing things through my selective Wing Chun gaze then... Well anyways, OK how about this then Sho Shu is a style that can only be practiced in a few select places in the states and Lau Gar as far as I know is an art that is majoritively restricted to the UK, where as Wing Chun is a completely international art and I would go as far to say as probably the most popular style of Kung Fu in the world.

Im not arguing by the way that these styles are in anyway lesser styles because of this I just think its a pretty good argument as to why Wing Chun deserves a seperate forum. I mean maybe I would understand a bit better if their wasnt forums for much less popular styles. But I just dont get whats so wrong with the idea of a Wing Chun section? Alot of the counter arguments could equally be used to suggest that their should be NO seperate style forums.

Hey look at the start date on those old WC threads, and 'who' started them.

So if at some point this did happen, what would it be called?

Ving Tsun, Wing Tsun, Wing Chun?

How long before we have the Shou Shu crowd wanting a seperate forum.

I don't see how adding a WC forum acheives anything except saving some of you guys a couple of button clicks.

[Tiong]

In my opinion, most people not "cultured" in MA know too things Japanese Karate and Kung Fu, when myself and well most others thing of Kung Fu I think of the 7 Star preying mantis I think of Wing Chun, Jun Fan, Dragon, Monkey, Lau Gar and Sho Shu etc.

My point all these styles are the foundations of Kung Fu, take it out of that boundary and you seem to super impose the image of a Wing Chun which exits in its own totality. So fundamentally I don't agree with Wing Chun being seperated. I see your appeal in accessability of having a sperate WC category, but I don't think its beneficial to anyone else.

When I see Kung Fu I like too see that mix of all styles and the contributions from a whole range of practitioners. That is what Kung Fu is after all. Just like modern Ninjitsu has many schools of thought, some more scientific in there training approach. (Generic example, I have no foundings in Ninjitsu, seemed an appropriate example as Ninjitsu was mentioned).

My $2

[hedgehogey]

Oh you guys are ever so funny. But regardless...I don't make rhetorical or theoretical arguements. I present only evidence. Draw what conclusions you want from it.

[YODA]

Oh you guys are ever so funny. But regardless...I don't make rhetorical or theoretical arguements. I present only evidence. Draw what conclusions you want from it.
As this is your first post in this thread - what on earth are you talking about?

[Andy Murray]

Oh you guys are ever so funny. But regardless...I don't make rhetorical or theoretical arguements. I present only evidence. Draw what conclusions you want from it.

*Sniggers at ********* member. :D ;)

[chungmoomonkey]

sniggers that was a mad tv skit about racism but any way all i have to say is
all i have to say on this topic is Click here (http://martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10751) its a past thread on a tsd board
i voted yes cuz i think it would be cool to have a forum for each style but i do kinda agree with andy we dont need to keep seperating the arts.

[jimmytofu]

Oh you guys are ever so funny. But regardless...I don't make rhetorical or theoretical arguements. I present only evidence. Draw what conclusions you want from it.

You present your evidence but dismiss others' experiences (Re. matreyia's description of Kenneth Chung's striking power)?

At the end of the day I respect grappling / grapplers. I just find the versus arguements get a bit tit-for-tat. :)

[Andy Murray]

At the end of the day I respect grappling / grapplers. I just find the versus arguements get a bit tit-for-tat. :)

Nonsense. Show me one substantiated example of you respecting a grappler! ;) :p

[CKava]

So if at some point this did happen, what would it be called? Ving Tsun, Wing Tsun, Wing Chun?

If there was to be such a forum I would suggest it be called Wing Chun given this is the most commonly known and most commonly used name. Do you really think that would be an issue? Oh and I suppose, calling it Wing Tsun would be a bad idea as it usually refers to a particular style of Wing Chun in fact isn't that why Leung Ting changed the name? So that would be like calling the TaeKwonDo section ITF TKD.

I don't see how adding a WC forum acheives anything except saving some of you guys a couple of button clicks.
You know I did state at the start of this thread that I was just trying to find the general consensus, yes I think its a good idea but if everyone else disagrees then fair enough. Still I think you've been presented with slightly better arguments than it saves on button clicks.

It actually doesn't really bother me at all if there is a Wing Chun forum or not I just think it would be a good idea. Im a bit confused as to why there has been such negative feedback about this? If people aren't trying to be negative then I apologise but most of the posts against just seem to be trying to prove that the suggestion is nonsense when clearly it isn't...

I see your appeal in accessability of having a sperate WC category, but I don't think its beneficial to anyone else.Off course a Wing Chun section would be beneficial primarily for Wing Chun people, the JKD section is of benefit primarily to JKD people as well, whats the problem?

[Andy Murray]

I'm just making you work for it CKava. No offence.

If we set a prescedent for this type of thing, by splitting Wing Chun from Kung Fu, then next thing we know, staff will be bombarded by Shotokan or Kyokushinkai people wanting to be seperate from the Karate forum, or the TKD people wanting seperate ITF/WTF sections etc.

There's maybe too many subsections as it is?

This is a democratic forum, and you have as much right to an opinion as anyone else.
You've had my opinion.
Anyone else?

[Greg-VT]

Yes.

As I said on the previous page, I don't think there is a great need for it at the moment.

And if it were to go through some time in the future, I would prefer it to be called Wing Chun or Ving Tsun, deffinatly not Wing Tzun or Tsun.

I like calling it Ving Tsun, for the name being in its most traditional form of course :D :p.

[Andy Murray]

And if it were to go through some time in the future, I like calling it Ving Tsun, for the name being in its most traditional form :D :p.

Whole other thread you young scallywag! :p

[Greg-VT]

LoL....


....I'll be leaving now. :D

[Andy Murray]

Phew.

I was worried you'd ask me what a 'scallywag' was, cos I don't know! :D

[CKava]

I'm just making you work for it CKava. No offence.
None taken, sorry if my last post was a bit moany, I think I just got a little frustrated. :Angel:

If we set a prescedent for this type of thing, by splitting Wing Chun from Kung Fu, then next thing we know, staff will be bombarded by Shotokan or Kyokushinkai people wanting to be seperate from the Karate forum, or the TKD people wanting seperate ITF/WTF sections etc.
Point Taken, Im not a mod so I guess theres some things I dont take into account.

There's maybe too many subsections as it is?
Perhaps your right...

Still just because I couldnt concede everything... Wing Chun is probably the widest spread and most popular style of Kung Fu next to Tai Chi and if Tai Chi deserves to sit outside of the CMA section maybe one day Wing Chun will too. Until then Im quite happy taking my Wing Chun enquiries to the Kung Fu board, its a nice, little cosy place anyhows...

[Andy Murray]

Wing Chun is probably the widest spread and most popular style of Kung Fu next to Tai Chi and if Tai Chi deserves to sit outside of the CMA section maybe one day Wing Chun will too. Until then Im quite happy taking my Wing Chun enquiries to the Kung Fu board, its a nice, little cosy place anyhows...

Ah.

Now Tai Chi is seperate because it's Internal.

If there were ever to be more categories, then perhaps the distinction of Northern/Southern Kung Fu sections?

[Greg-VT]

Phew.

I was worried you'd ask me what a 'scallywag' was, cos I don't know! :D
LoL

It's used down here in Aus, it means you're being silly or mucking about.

Scallywag:

1: a deceitful and unreliable scoundrel
2: one who is playfully mischievous

So there you go :p.

Sorry to interrupt, so I'll be moving on again. :D

[hedgehogey]

You present your evidence but dismiss others' experiences (Re. matreyia's description of Kenneth Chung's striking power)?


I dismiss it because it reeks of BS. taking out 25-30 people in less than a minute? And not breaking a sweat? You can't expect me to believe that. That's "ad in the back of black belt" material.

In a minute there are sixty seconds. That would mean he needed to take down one person every one and a half seconds. And not just common joes, trained MAists. Not to mention the advantage multiples have.

[YODA]

I dismiss it because it reeks of BS. taking out 25-30 people in less than a minute? And not breaking a sweat? You can't expect me to believe that. That's "ad in the back of black belt" material.

In a minute there are sixty seconds. That would mean he needed to take down one person every one and a half seconds. And not just common joes, trained MAists. Not to mention the advantage multiples have.

What ARE you harping on about?

This is a discussion on the pros & cons of a WC forum. You and Jimmytofu please take your petty personal agenda to email. It has NO relevance to this thread.

[jimmytofu]

Fair comment Yoda. It wasn't my intention to take over the issue at hand. :rolleyes:

[jimmytofu]

I've changed my mind - no need for a WC section. It has become apparent that it's not how the site is sectioned that makes the difference, its the individuals and their comments that has the greatest bearing on the discussions.

[white_sash]

sorry it took me a while.
just voted YES! :)

[wcrevdonner]

There is an internal section AND Tai Chi section. You sure you mods aren't biased towards it at all...;)
I would say yes because it can become confusing clicking through all the different forums to remember where you are going...Eg you have the 'anti-grappling' thread and the 'wing chun on the floor' thread which have gone very similar ways. And when the thread in the general discussion goes the way of Wing Chun we are (politely) told that it would be better if we took our discussion to the kung fu forum, but, although at the moment it is easy to find the relevant thread, there was one occasion (when the discussion went the way of WC history in a non wc history thread) that I couldn't find it. Phew!
Just find it a bit frustrating having to go back and forth sometimes...if I get RSI I'll know who to blame then!

[Andy Murray]

Spent some time in WC myself (ooer missus), so if anything, I'm biased towards it.

As it stands at the moment, people aren't using the forum sections responsibly.

General Discussion=Free for all.

MMA=MMA and or TMA questioning.

Kung Fu= Should be about Kung Fu, with respectful questions being asked by non practitioners, same as I expect in dedicated forums for TKD, CKD, Karate etc