Anyone for boxing advice???

[binski20]

I am new to the boards and I am a boxer currently.
I have been posting with another board, but things have degenerated on the board, and the atmosphere is not a great one.
I have been posting columns on training to help out others and was wondering if that would be welcome here?
If so, I hope to share with you guys, and be of some help.

[Terry Matthes]

Talk to Melanie (the super moderator) about posting articles, she would most likley be thrilled. I am a karate-ka but I really enjoy reading about other styles because you can usually pick up usefull information that can be applied to your own training. As far as boxing advice . . . . I don't box but, I hear that kepping your hands up is always a good thing to do :D

[binski20]

I would be more than glad to share any info I can.
I too enjoy reading info about other arts, and I am impressed by the maturity on this site thus far.

[YODA]

Heres' one for you binski20

On the lead hook - how far do you turn the lead foot in? To 90 Degrees? PAst? Not that far? Pros & Cons?

[binski20]

Hmmmm, that's a good one.
I have never really analyzed it like that, just done it the way I have done it.
I'd say once again, there are 2 different ones. A 45 and a 90.
These would depend on the commitment and the speed. If it was the second punch in a 3 or more punch combo, probably the 45, shorter movement, which is faster.
This is all off of the top of my head though. Like I said, I have never analyzed it, but I definitly will tonight and get back to you.
Your thoughts??
Geez, I'm ashamed to admit I haven't paid attention to it lol

[TkdWarrior]

Geez, I'm ashamed to admit I haven't paid attention to it lol
dude i admit that too...tho i m not boxer but like to box...
-TkdWarrior-

[binski20]

Just as I thought I use the 2 angles, 45 and 90.
Which one is used depends on the commitment to the punch.
All out power, I tend to use a 90, in a combination the 45.
The lead hook is one of the most difficult punches to really develop well. Although my left lead is decent, I have toyed around with fighting as a south paw because my right lead hook is phenomanal.

[goatnipples2002]

Me personally I don't throw circular punches. I don't train to fight in the ring. I train at a boxing gym, but I train to fight on the streets. That's because that's where I'm from. From my personal experiences crosses and double jabs dominate the punching range. I use the double jab to close the gap and crosses to "snatch jaws off" :D . Linear (straight) punches are faster and more structurally stable as far as stance and wrist placement go. I cross train martail arts, but more boxing. On a straight punch the elbow moves 2.66x slower than the fist yet on a circular punch the elbow move 4x slower than the fist (learned that in MA). That's why when people throw circular punches I "snatch they jaw off". You telegraph your punch when you throw hooks.

[Sc0tsg1t]

Hello all,

I've years of experience in Aikijitsu and have just started to learn to box and am finding the experience fantastic. Talk about a change of pysche. I've seen some (and not seen more ;) ) hooks that were not telegraphed at all. Neil McLeod throws a mean one.
I would appreciate as much help as possible as everything I do is pants. What about tips on footwork drills?

thanks for your effort:D

[YODA]

I guess all these pro boxeras that knock guys out with hooks don't know jack huh?

Stuff physics - the measure is performance. Just because YOU suck at throwing hooks doesn't make the technique suck.

[Sc0tsg1t]

I mean, old Iron Mike couldn't have got lucky with all of his left hooks could he?

And he came from the street.

[goatnipples2002]

I don't use circular attacks because they are easy to deflect. I don't go by boxing rules because there are no rules in the streets.
I use MA blocks and parries, that's what I mean by not going by boxing's rules. I prefer double jabs and crosses. I'm not saying you should I'm simply stating from MY experiences circular punches failed to work. I really wanted to let you know that a linear punch is much faster than a circular punch. It's all about Economy of Motion.

[Sc0tsg1t]

fair enough me old mucker...

horses for courses and all that.

I still prefer a knee in his jewels and a fast pair of legs ;)

[goatnipples2002]

Biomechanics of Punching:

The old-time pugilism punched with a vertical fist. The horizontal fist only came into popular use in sport boxing after the introduction of thickly padded gloves. There was a good reason for this. A vertical fist protects the hand from injury. Two biomechanical principles are key. First is the idea of spreading the force of the strike over as large a portion of the surface of the knuckles as possible. This keeps any one bone of the hand from being subjected to excessive stress. Second is keeping the wrist aligned in as "squared" a position as possible so that when the force of your strike is reflected back, it travels through the center of your wrist and up the middle or "long-axis" of your forearm. If your wrist is not aligned properly, force will be reflected off an at angle rather than through the center of your forearm and your wrist is more likely to bend and suffer damage. Get up from your computer and try this simple experiment. Face the wall and extend your arm completely straight out in front at your own chin level. Make a horizontal fist (palm down) and place it against the wall. Now lean your weight onto your fist so that it is as flat against the wall as possible. You will find that not only will your wrist bend upward, it will bend outward as well in order to keep the fist flat against the wall. Now pivot so that you have a vertical fist (palm inward) while rolling your elbow inward and do the same thing. Your wrist should stay "squared" and your fist should be in good contact with the wall at the same time. The vertical punch keeps the wrist aligned to prevent it from being injured, and allows force to be spread over the surface of the knuckles as much as possible to avoid a fracture of the hand. Think of aiming with the "middle" knuckle of the hand when punching. This is the one that is most in line with the long-axis of your forearm and so will help you keep your wrist properly aligned. Also try and keep the elbow of your punching arm rolled inward as if pointing toward your opposite foot. This not only helps to keep the wrist aligned, but also aligns your forearm with your shoulder for maximum delivery of force when punching.

:woo:

[Sc0tsg1t]

Thanks GoatNipples2002,

makes a lot of sense and explains some of the things I've seen and felt. I HATE hooks with an horizontal fist as I have slim wrists for my size but I like the vertical fist punches from Chinese Boxing and Wing Chun. Thanks, I'll try this tonight in my class and see how they compare. :D

[goatnipples2002]

Place your hands side by side. Both hands should be in horizontal fists. Now rotate each hand outward (with thumb knuckles touching) until you form a "bottomless triangle" on the in side of your hands. Each fist should roughly be at a 45 degree angle. Which makes a 90 degree angle hence the phrase "bottomless triangle". Now pull one hand back to your jaw line. This the way your fist should makr contact. This is the safest position for your wrist. Now on to the contact surface. If you punch as stated before; aim for the center line of your attacker and you will make contact with your bottom 3 knuckles only. this is the best KO postion as for as the target, the wrist/hand structure and contact surface.


I HOPE I EXPLAINED IT ENOUGH, IF NOT I CAN EXPLAIN BETTER OR ANSWER ANY Q'S. THIS IS JUST THE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD EXPLAINATION.:woo: :D

[Sc0tsg1t]

I found it made quite a difference and because I don't feel my wrist is the weak point anymore I could let more power flow through my hook.

thanks a lot:D

[Joe karate]

For advice on hooks read the Feb. or Jan? issue of Black Belt Mag. It talks about the proper angles to strike at different targets to get a KO. Sometimes the angle causes powerful punches to do nothing.

Example: I remember hitting the jaw slightly angled so that the punch is directed to his throat.

I'll have to read it again.

[Bon]

Originally posted by goatnipples2002
I don't use circular attacks because they are easy to deflect. I don't go by boxing rules because there are no rules in the streets.
I use MA blocks and parries, that's what I mean by not going by boxing's rules. I prefer double jabs and crosses. I'm not saying you should I'm simply stating from MY experiences circular punches failed to work. I really wanted to let you know that a linear punch is much faster than a circular punch. It's all about Economy of Motion.

Every technique has a time & place. Looks like a good time to throw a left hook after the guy has thrown a cross, missed and is now overbalanced with his left jaw screaming 'KNOCK ME OUT!' wouldn't you agree?

I personally love hooks and uppercuts, the power you generate when twisting your hips into it is absolutely phenomenal - this is why you don't need to recoil, thus, shouldn't be telegraphing your shot.

I can't see the logic in your statement... I can say jabs and crosses are useless in a real fight because I can just palm them off.

[goatnipples2002]

First off crosses are much faster than hooks which makes intercepting these punches easier to me. I DON'T BOX, I BANG IN THE STREETS.

I can say hooks will get you hurt in the street because it's easier to parry a hook then any other punch.

The closest/shortest distance between to "objects" is a str8 line.
You must not fight in the streets, I do. I'm not talking from what I THINK I speak from experience and EXPERIENCE ONLY!

Hooks also are real easy to telegraph.


I wish I could train with you.
I'm a street fightin type of guy.

[johndoch]

Quote "I can say hooks will get you hurt in the street because it's easier to parry a hook then any other punch."

I dont know about this one in my experience I have found that parrying a hook is pretty much a waste of time. To avoid a hook I have had much more success by ducking under the hook (Could be a shoot) or leaning back out of range. Jams can work but you have to be quick as the opposite hand will come at you the instant you jam the hook.

As for people saying hooks are to slow??? I would say they never fought someone with good hands. Hooks are perfect in the range between straight punching and elbows. Its also good to hook coming out of the clinch and if you only use straight punches a good hooker has a distinct advantage to strike before a straight puncher gets into range.

IMO If you dont know how to hook get on the heavy bag coz you ARE missing out on one of the best striking techniques out there.

[Bon]

Originally posted by goatnipples2002
I wish I could train with you.
I'm a street fightin type of guy.

Change it to 'I'm a ****-talkin' kind of guy' and you're right on the money! :)

You must not fight in the streets, I do.

Oh, Ok... Despite you contradicting yourself , you're a tough guy!

[dredleviathan]

Ha ha ha Sc0tsg1t... Neil throws pretty mean everything!! I'm pretty bruised from being his demo dummy last night.

So do you train at the BB Academy then? If so we'll have to see about these 45 degree hands... interesting.

_____________

Question for the street geezer here... if you're in close whilst "banging on the streets" do you not find that you don't have the correct range for a perfect cross? Also have you considered that on occasion you may wish to telegraph a punch (ABD anyone?). Sometimes you throw grabage to set up better techniques (ABC). Also you don't necessarily have to telegraph a hook. It does happen but not always and as the guys have pointed out its been proved in and out of the ring time and time again as a valid technique - just becasue you haven't mastered it doesn't mean you shouldn't train it. But then perhaps that would interfere with you bangin' time?

And one final question while we're on it how do you target areas not accessible to a jab or cross i.e. passing around someone's guard for instance or their kidneys (are you purely a head hunter)?

To say that hooks are a pointless technique shows that it is you missing the point mate.

[dredleviathan]

By the way Bninski welcome to the forum. All discussion and advice of boxing is definitely welcome and as you have surmissed this forum generally only suffers from the occassion berk rather than complete idiots.

Looking forward to hearing more from you - do you have some stuff from the other board that you posted before?

By the way which forum have you jumped ship from?

Dred

[Sc0tsg1t]

I do. I also ache from Neils class last night. I did try the 45 degree angle but my superior inability caused much consternation and I kept on forgetting to do it. Same old story, practice practice practice ;)

You will know me as the little bald Scots chap who knows how to throw someone but give me a set of gloves and I hit myself more than the opponent :D

[goatnipples2002]

When I'm not in range for a cross or jab I elbow and knee. I don't use circular attacks, that's just me. You do what you do. Yeah I do telegraph punches on purpose to see how my attacker will react, but usually I will feint instead so I can recover quickier.

No I'm not a head hunter. I'm an "opening creator". I use Kali footwork to evade attacks. If you use a parry while using the Kali footwork it produces a world of opportunity. Honestly I go for the neck 1st, no breath no fight and I run a good risk of collaping their throat (oh well). My 2nd main target is the armpit/the ribs protecting the upper lungs. I try to break ribs alot. I don't try for them I strike what is given.

And yes I do talk ****, but I CAN BACK IT ALL UP!

I DON'T START **** , BUT I'M QUICK TO FINISH IT!

[Joe karate]

Calm down everyone!!!
Goatnips, why do you only use linear attacks? Circular movement can generate great power. Also it opens up the striking possibilities. They can be quicker. Why? Hit with one hand and immediately cicrle it back to strike again. Linear strikes make each INDIVIDUAL strike fast but I find it easier, quicker to use circular motion. Multiple shots will rain down like hell!
However linear motion takes less practice. Although do not underestimate it.

Try to blend circular movement into your linear technique and you will find that you begin to flow.

[goatnipples2002]

I don't use circular attacks, but I do chain punch. I don't have the problem you were talkin bout I chain punch and power comes from hips. Why would you want 5% power increase with a 30-40% chance of missing. I'll explain later if you don't understand.

[dredleviathan]

By the way I am keeping this calm but I have legitimate questions on this:

When I'm not in range for a cross or jab I elbow and knee. I don't use circular attacks, that's just me.

How do you manage to elbow and knee without using circular attacks? The only straight elbow I can think of is when you drive the point of the elbow forward by shifting your whole body. All other elbows that I can think of follow a circular pathway as the elbow has to move around the shoulder i.e. if the shoulder is the central point, the movement of the elbow will relate to a point on the circumference of a circle which corresponds in radius to the length of your arm between shoulder and elbow.

Personally I would prefer to elbow someone than punch them anyway as there's less chance of breaking your elbow than any of the bones in your hand when punching. But you still have to wait for the correct opening of course (like you said Goatee). Elbows are awesome tools.

And from this I would therefore say that hooks and uppercuts are pretty much the same movement but with different relative hand placement and impact point. If you miss with the hook then you might get the elbow (who's seen a boxing match where a boxer elbows his opponent hidden in a hook?).

No I'm not a head hunter. I'm an "opening creator". I use Kali footwork to evade attacks. If you use a parry while using the Kali footwork it produces a world of opportunity.

I applaud the "opening creator" remark!

I think its a shame that you have rejected the other priniciples from Kali which added to the footwork make an awesome arsenel of weapons/principles. One of the great things about the FMAs and in particular about the empty-hands side of things (which my instructors call Panantukan due to their lineage) is the practicality of it and therefore its relevance to street confrontation.

Concepts I have had drilled into me are (and these come from Rick Faye's book on the subject as my own notes are nowhere near as readable):

1. Manipulate before you hit: Move the body into a position that is easy to hit – pulling, pushing & levering. Usually arms and head but can be done on any body part.


2. Use all your tools: Hands, elbows, forearms, head, knees, shins, feet. Use in creative ways – straights, backhands, backfists, hammer fists, knuckle punches, rakes, thumb/finger jab, slaps, ridge hands etc etc


3. Limb destruction: “Defanging the snake”. Limb destructions are economical entries in terms of motion used and opponent is less threat without his set of tools.


4. Angling & lead switching: Angle away from incoming attacks as with weapons training to put opponent in a better position for counter attacks.


5. Sectoring: Position yourself to account for the opponent's next attack & to allow easy counter attack.


Its true that you can't always get the more 'artisitic' techniques to work in a live environment all the time but I think you lose some of the depth available in these wonderful arts by rejecting them out of hand.

We've had similar discussions on MAP before. If someone takes a bit from Muay Thai, a bit from FMA, a bit from boxing, a bit from BJJ do they really understand any of these arts or are they just emulating the 'surface' detail?

For instance we covered the MT long-guard at a seminar I attended this weekend as my MT experience is still low) . Now I've been known to do this in sparring before but it was only after the seminar that I began to really realize the depth of this technique. It's not just about sticking your arms out, its not just a distancing thing etc... I wouldn't have know some of the finer details unless I chose to investigate it further. Now I have to practice it and put it into my sparring.

I'm all for taking the bits that work from an art (concepts man) but only once you've really looked in to them.

[movado]

joe frazier knocked muhammad ali down with a left hook in their first fight.floyd patterson annhialated ingemar johanson with a leaping style left hook in their second bout.also i noticed that in enter the dragon,towards the end with bruce lee in the mirror room,he lashed out with a left hook as his opening punch after hahn scraped his back with the sword hands.his left hook looked lightening fast to me.as fast as any straight punch that tommy hearns or sugar ray leonard ever threw,and those guys were the fastest punchers i ever seen in boxing.
i agree though that you can counter a left hook by ducking,bobbing and weaving and manuevering sideways.personally i've had to become more reliant on the hook punches rather than straight punches because of my recurrent elbow problems in my right arm.i can throw uppercuts and block with my right.but that's it.i cant throw a straight right cross anymore.way too painfull for my elbow.i used to have a decent straight right.not great but pretty darn good.my jab is good, especially with my 75"reach on a 5'9 frame.my left hook is somewhat powerfull and quite fast.i like getting in and throwing quick uppercuts as well.
my style is to stand sideways,slightly leaning back and keeping my right hand up by my face while i shoot out the jab repeatadly,while measuring up my opponent for an opening.i like the counterpunch style.i'm more of the slow starter type.i dont go right in for the knockout.that would be plain foolish for me because it would resemble tommy morrison when he tried to knockout ray mercer with those bomber hook punches.thus tiring himself out prematurely and promptly getting ko'd in the 6th round.
i look to duck under the straight punch coming at me before i setup for a left hook.it's simultaneous.like when you brace yourself to clock a baseball.duck down and come up with the hook while simultaneously bringing your right hand back up to your face to block the opponents counterpunches.
it's all up to the individual.

[dredleviathan]

especially with my 75"reach on a 5'9 frame

Dude, your knuckles must drag on the ground :D Buying long-sleeve shirts must be a total nightmare!

[Sc0tsg1t]

those are damn long arms....

[binski20]

Good to see some life in here. Tough to find a boxing forum that isn't a ghost town. I wanted to raise a question here for discussion. Actually a few. Any southpaws here? Any natural right handers who have switched to the left stance? I know Bruce Lee fought this way, wanted to have the strongest weapon at the shortest distance. Any thoughts on this strategy?

[Andrew Green]

I'm right handed south paw. But not really a straight boxer.

It has always felt more natural to me. I also like having a more solid jab and lead hook. Plus me Shooting off the left side is umm... "less then gracefull". But that doesn't have anything to do with boxing :D

[YODA]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
I'm right handed south paw. But not really a straight boxer.

It has always felt more natural to me. I also like having a more solid jab and lead hook. Plus me Shooting off the left side is umm... "less then gracefull". But that doesn't have anything to do with boxing :D


Hey me too :D

It also means I don't need to change anything when I pick up a stick or knife.

[Sc0tsg1t]

I've always felt more 'natural' fighting southpaw style. I agree that 'shooting' is much more graceful for me and weapons require less adjustment as well. Is this a common phenomenon?

[Tosh]

Originally posted by binski20
Actually a few. Any southpaws here?

BWAHAAHAHA I'm a southpaw that fights in the right stance!

I suppose that years of wanting my fastest/most powerful leg in front.

Although I concur about preferring having the stronger jab/lead hook for boxing (we do some "hands only sparring" sometimes)

Although I have to say I feel quite comfortable in both stances. This is probably due to competition TKD requiring the ability to switch in order to get an opening.


I have a questions for boxers,

"How often do boxers switch stance, if at all?"

[johndoch]

"How often do boxers switch stance, if at all?"

LOL usually when they're in trouble or have been trained by Brendan Ingle ie Johnny Nelson/Naseem Hamed

[binski20]

Boxers will rarely ever switch, although it does happen. A guy will do it if his plan isn't working out, he's getting frustrated. Or I have also seen it if he injures his lead hand. And there are the rare fighters who train both effectively, but you rarely see it at the professional level.

[FISH]

Originally posted by goatnipples2002
Me personally I don't throw circular punches. I don't train to fight in the ring. I train at a boxing gym, but I train to fight on the streets. That's because that's where I'm from. From my personal experiences crosses and double jabs dominate the punching range. I use the double jab to close the gap and crosses to "snatch jaws off" :D . Linear (straight) punches are faster and more structurally stable as far as stance and wrist placement go. I cross train martail arts, but more boxing. On a straight punch the elbow moves 2.66x slower than the fist yet on a circular punch the elbow move 4x slower than the fist (learned that in MA). That's why when people throw circular punches I "snatch they jaw off". You telegraph your punch when you throw hooks.

I have to agree that hooks or Thai knees are for finishing in a streetfight.In the ring with gloves on you may be able to make a couple mistakes and take a few shots.In a bareknuckle brawl a good boxer will kill a slugger who throws wild haymakers or lead hooks.If you hit hard with fast straight shots a streetfight is over in 2 or 3 punches so wild mistakes aren't an option.As a southpaw I prefer to use jabs and straight lefts while circling a right handed fighter to the right.After landing a jab/left combo or a solid jab then you can bust a overhand left or straight left/right hook combo.

From what I know of Bruce he preffered south paw.He had more power in his right hand and foot and this put them closer to the target.His side kick,right jab,right hook,and roundhouse kick were all increadibly fast and had brutal power from the southpaw stance:D

[FISH]

Originally posted by johndoch
Quote "I can say hooks will get you hurt in the street because it's easier to parry a hook then any other punch."

I dont know about this one in my experience I have found that parrying a hook is pretty much a waste of time. To avoid a hook I have had much more success by ducking under the hook (Could be a shoot) or leaning back out of range. Jams can work but you have to be quick as the opposite hand will come at you the instant you jam the hook.

As for people saying hooks are to slow??? I would say they never fought someone with good hands. Hooks are perfect in the range between straight punching and elbows. Its also good to hook coming out of the clinch and if you only use straight punches a good hooker has a distinct advantage to strike before a straight puncher gets into range.

IMO If you dont know how to hook get on the heavy bag coz you ARE missing out on one of the best striking techniques out there.

True true there too on all accounts hooks are good counter punches when thrown properly or when thrown in proper sequence in a combo.Say jab then hook or jab right then hook.Bareknuckle I still say its a bad lead punch if you're attacking unless you're super fast.

[SockonString]

This goes out to goatnipples2002 and Bon.

Remember guys that both straight punches and hooks are good for different situations. When you are farther away use your straight punches because of their distance. When you are closer or you are countering, a hook can be very jarring.
Hooks are easy to see coming so you can often hit your oponent before he hits you. I find that straight punches are much easier to push aside and dodge.
Neither of you are wrong and neither of you are right. A certain technique may be better than another in a certain situation. Put both your hooks and straight punches together.