What does being a black belt mean to you? [Archive]

Coomazen

24-Feb-2004, 08:38 PM

Sorry to get off topic with the first reply but I am curious what a 'temporary black belt' is?

At my dojang we have a rank after 1st kup but before 1st dan. This is the point at which just knowing technique is not good enough, that an understanding of the meaning behind the art is tested.

At least that's what I think it is for. I could be full of rubbish - I'm only a 6th kup. ;)

Mrs Owt

24-Feb-2004, 08:40 PM

At my dojang we have a rank after 1st kup but before 1st dan. This is the point at which just knowing technique is not good enough, that an understanding of the meaning behind the art is tested.

At least that's what I think it is for. I could be full of rubbish - I'm only a 6th kup. ;)
Thanks, I don't do Hapkido and was just curious. So obviously because I don't do Hapkido nor am I a black belt I can't answer your question in your original post. Thanks for the response! :)

Jiraiya

19-Aug-2004, 07:01 PM

"What does being a black belt mean to you?"

Being a black belt means never having to say you're sorry.

Just kidding. $10 bucks if you can name the obscure movie reference. I am not a black belt, but since you haven't had a lot of replies...

To me it means a solid understanding of the basics and the ability to teach them. It also means that you have a better understanding of your limitations and how to expand them. Increased self-control, both physical and mental, and you should also be in pretty good shape. I have a feeling that there is also an increased sense of responsibility to other people, if that makes sense. I'm feeling that in myself as I progress, and that seems to exist in the upper belts and black belts I've met. I dunno. Maybe they're just friendly. :)

Ikken Hisatsu

19-Aug-2004, 07:52 PM

nothing.

Stingrae789

19-Aug-2004, 08:27 PM

Not much if you go to a shop and buy one :D Just joking lol its just what my instructor told me along time ago as a joke.

Scarlet Mist

19-Aug-2004, 08:38 PM

nothing.

It could mean nothing or it could mean that you have a sufficient grasp of the techniques and are able to execute them well. It depends on who you get it from.
I think Mr. Hisatsu may just be grinding an axe for TMA's.

alex_000

19-Aug-2004, 10:10 PM

Means you did a good job and worked hard. Nothing aside from that.

Telsun

19-Aug-2004, 10:19 PM

The above plus you have the responsibilty of maintaining and setting a standard.

Kanku

20-Aug-2004, 10:04 AM

Having a black belt means that someone with a much higher belt than you judged your technique as good enough to join the Dan grades in your dojo. Unless you keep training and keep up to date with fighting and martial arts standards it means that you got a grade and quit, it doesn't take that much training to get a black belt, it takes a lot more to refine your techniques train harder to get better. Too many black belts become lazy and think that they are invincible because of the colour of their belt. You are only as good as your next technique.

Ikken Hisatsu

20-Aug-2004, 12:10 PM

ok ill clarify what I said- the belt itself doesnt mean anything to me. Sure it would be nice to say "Im a black belt" but its not something I strive for or admire others for. a black belt is (or should be) a byproduct of hard training, not a goal. a rank shouldnt be what you are aiming for, you should be aiming to get better. the strip of cloth covering your ass is inconsequential to anything.

Jiraiya

20-Aug-2004, 01:43 PM

O thread starter, what do you think? It's interesting to see the different answers. I suppose I answered based on where I want to be when/if I reach black. What does it mean to you?

Telsun

20-Aug-2004, 02:05 PM

the strip of cloth covering your ass is inconsequential to anything.

I agree with what you have posted but just wanted to say that we don't wear our belts around our ass :rolleyes:

Timmy Boy

21-Aug-2004, 10:17 AM

Ikken Hisatsu

21-Aug-2004, 12:15 PM

yes but its not a perfect system. I see black belts all the time who couldnt fend off a schoolyard bully, let alone a determined mugger. someones demonstrated ability means a lot more to me than their rank.

Taliar

21-Aug-2004, 12:32 PM

It should mean you have reached a certain basic standard in your art, just as all other belts do. IE in TKD black belt is classed as "Novice". It is not the end though. I think the fact that your belt remains at black as you progress through the dan grades prompts people to stop once they have their black belt. I am am not totally behind the belt system but I think it is as good a way as any to show what you know and to give you something to aim for, espically in the more 'Traditional' styles.

quartermaster

21-Aug-2004, 04:01 PM

This is what a black belt means to me.
I have had a black leather strap, complete with buckle holding my trousers up, and carrying my knife for me for quite a few years now, and that is all it does.
Of course, this is just me:D

JayTee

21-Aug-2004, 06:46 PM

it doesn't take that much training to get a black belt, it takes a lot more to refine your techniques train harder to get better.

This, to me, is what's wrong with martial arts today. If the club that you're in gives BBs that easily, look for another club. As I posted in another thread, a BB should be of a VERY high skill level, and should be able to FIGHT for real. Anything less is a Mcblackbelt.

Lefty

21-Aug-2004, 07:07 PM

Being a black belt means never having to say you're sorry.

Just kidding. $10 bucks if you can name the obscure movie reference.

Love Story, though I don't recall anything about the black belt part. Wasn't a very strong MA film.

Where's my $10?

On the topic: I agree with Much of the above, though some of it contradicts the other. It starts as a goal, something to attain at the end of the road of learning. It later becomes the start of a new journey. It really depends on your philosophical point of view. With the right teachers it should mean nothing.
Acheivment is its own reward.

blessed_samurai

21-Aug-2004, 07:53 PM

It means you can fly, chew up bullets, grow extra appendages, and become invisible. Ohhhh and it means that I with a mere thought can blow up Adam McG using my chi.

JK...to me it seems to mean that everyone is now looking at you judging you on some highly stupid inflated pedestal, expecting you to not screw up. I've finally managed to convince them falling after I kick isn't because I have poor balance but is part of my style.

Dave Humm

22-Aug-2004, 04:15 PM

Hey fellas,

I hope you guys don't mind me joining in this discussion as I'm an aikidoist.

What does being dan grade mean to me ?

To me personaly, it's simply another stage of training which should continue as it did before, granted reaching black belt is and should be an important stage in anyone's development however, it should not be seen as a pinnicle point, it is after all just another level of progression.

Regards

LilBunnyRabbit

22-Aug-2004, 06:41 PM

Well, mine means to me that I put in twelve years of hard work, lots of training, and some rather heavy sacrifices to get to the stage where I felt I'd earned it. Other than that, a black belt in itself means nothing to me.

davefly76

22-Aug-2004, 07:48 PM

the fact that i have earned my black belt means alot to me, infact it's probably the achievment that means the most to me.

i'll never forget the moment when myself and my fellow promotors along with our then instructor went up to grandmaster in hyuk suh to recive our certificate of promotion.

at the time it was the ultimate goal when i started training, but since then it opened my eyes to a whole new dimension, a whole new set of (alot more advanced) techniques. and has made me realise that being a black belt is just another step on a long journey

kenpoguy

23-Aug-2004, 02:34 AM

the black belt system has some rather heavy flaws in it. Many people have achieved the rank without actually earning it or deserving it for that matter. I think that it should be awarded both on ability and physcologically. By physcologically, I dont mean someone who goes around bragging about it thinking they are better tahn eveyrone else who walks down the street. Being a martial artist myself i striked up a conversation with a hapkidoist(im not ripping on the art itself, jst the guy i talked to :) ) He musta been about 16 or 17, and was explaiing how he got a black belt when he was about 12. He then went on to explain that had he stayed with it for a few more years he would have been a grandmaster. Needless to say i had my laugh for the day :D

Thomas

23-Aug-2004, 02:49 AM

[kenpoguy]the black belt system has some rather heavy flaws in it. Many people have achieved the rank without actually earning it or deserving it for that matter. I think that it should be awarded both on ability and physcologically. By physcologically, I dont mean someone who goes around bragging about it thinking they are better tahn eveyrone else who walks down the street.

I agree with you that the rank of black belt needs to conform to a higher level, especially because of the stigma society and other martial artists give to it.

I look at my black belt(s) as affirmations of the skills I have worked hard to acquire and that the people who awarded the belt to me, a person who I truly respect, has acknowledged that they have put their trust in me.

I look at other black belts in the school with a certain higher level of expectation, both of ability and of behavior. I know that those who wear the same belt as me should be able to perform to a certain levelk and be able to teach to a certain level, especially if I need help to run a class or assist a student.

It's difficult to compare "black belts" across styles or even schools... different people have different expectations and ideas about what it means.

Being a martial artist myself i striked up a conversation with a hapkidoist(im not ripping on the art itself, jst the guy i talked to :) ) He musta been about 16 or 17, and was explaiing how he got a black belt when he was about 12. He then went on to explain that had he stayed with it for a few more years he would have been a grandmaster. Needless to say i had my laugh for the day :D

I hope you didn't believe him!

KickChick

23-Aug-2004, 11:49 AM

Yours and my black belt is only as good as the training that went into it, the standards that were met to earn it, and the school that awarded it.

leo

23-Aug-2004, 12:09 PM

to me a black belt means nothing, i have seen many blackbelts who cannot fight and many white belts and non belts who can, (and vis versa), i judje ppl by how they train not how they fight or what belt they have, you can never really tell how good or bad a fighter is unless you have seen him defending the life of someone they love, it is very hard to make some ppl fight but that does not mean they cannot fight, as for the belts they mean you can do a few moves at a satisfactory level to the person who graded you, it doesnt even mean you can still do those moves, it also means you spent alot of money on something that you dont need, haveing a black belt around your waist that cost you 100 pound to get dose not make you any better a fighter than someone who has no belt around their waist.

i dont mean to offend any one by this post i just mean i dont judje a fighte by teh belt around his waist.

Gyaku

23-Aug-2004, 12:14 PM

This, to me, is what's wrong with martial arts today. If the club that you're in gives BBs that easily, look for another club. As I posted in another thread, a BB should be of a VERY high skill level, and should be able to FIGHT for real. Anything less is a Mcblackbelt.

I dissagree, the BB (first dan)is just an indicator that you have attained a level of skill in basic techniques. Being able to apply advanced level and more refined basic techniques are more fitting to higher grades - 2nd dan etc. That is what these grades are there for.

Of course I'm only refering to karate here, can't say if it applies to other MA's.

Tittan

23-Aug-2004, 12:29 PM

First of all, I'd like to tell you that imho there is a difference between having a black belt and being a black belt.
As it is stated above, anybody can have a black belt. Just run over to your local 7-Eleven and buy one. Being a black belt on the other hand is something not many people can.

In order to be a black belt, you do off course need to have tested and passed to achieve the belt itself, but that is only the start. I usually say that having a colored belt is like going to school (I'm not sure how the system is in the USA, but anything lower than high-school would be true) while having a black belt is like going to the university. You learn a lot of different things during the years before you go to the uni, but it's not untill you're in uni you really learn. (if you get my drift...)

Then, after you've got the belt, can you claim to be a black belt?
Yes, you can , but that's not the way to go. If other people refer to you as a black belt, and they've got respect in their voice, you're on your way to be one.

Also, you need to know what you're doing. Any technique, any pattern/form, history, movement, "sage-advice", how to deal with people/students/the students parents, how to make sure you will make a difference to others and a lot more.

You will need to be able to BE your art, be it tkd, karate, kung fu or any other art, and then... maybe... you can say "I AM a black belt!"

I know that in the years since I recieved my own black belt I've gotten more humble and at the same time more sure about who I am and what I can do. (And I don't say I am a black belt. I say I recieved my belt in 2001, and I still work hard to be able to keep wearing it.)

To sum up: To be a black belt, you need to have the respect of others, the knowledge about your art, and above all the ability of being humble when you need to. ("Down-to-earthness") If you don't have that, you might ruin martial arts for a lot of people.

Jiraiya

23-Aug-2004, 02:48 PM

It means you can fly, chew up bullets, grow extra appendages, and become invisible.

Badass, dude! I want to go to your school! :)

The rank will mean something to me, because of what I'm going to put into it, and because of the respect I have for my instructors, my school, and the art. After several different arts and schools over the years, I think I'm finally in the right place at the right point in my life. I have a pretty good idea of who and what I want to be when I reach the rank. I'm sure there will be some surprises along the way, and I'm looking forward to them.

I LOVE TRAINING

24-Aug-2004, 04:24 PM

I WOULD SAY THAT BEEN A BLACK BELT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TRAINED HARD FOR WHAT YOU THOUGHT WAS THE ULTAMATE GOAL.
BUT ITS NOT, ONCE YOU GET THERE YOU JUST CARRY ON TRAINING TO PROGRESS THROUGH YOUR DAN GRADES. I SUPOSE WHAT IM SAYING IS THAT IT FEELS NO DIFFRENT REALY.
jUST CHANGE THE SUBJECT SLIGHTLY, BUT SOME OF THE CLUBS I HAVE TRAINED IN BECOMING A BLACK BELT JUST MEANS THAT YOU HAVE PAID THE AMOUNT OF MONEY ASKED BY THE INSTRUCTOR. IM NOT AT ALL SAYING THE PEOPLE WITH BLACK BELTS DONT DESERVE THEM, ALL IM SAYING IS THAT SOME INSTRUCTORS ARE MORE INTRESTED IN MONEY THAN THEY ARE IN YOUR ABILITY. SO BEEN A BLACK BELT MEANS THAT I AM JUST CONTINUING MY TRANING.

THE ONLY WAY TO BECOME GOOD IS TO TRAIN..

daftyman

24-Aug-2004, 04:25 PM

I'm not a hapkido player, nor am I part of a school that has a belt or ranking system (apart from being fairly senior in the general structure.) I congratulate anyone that has studied hard enough to reach this level of training.

I have been told that in the past the belts went from white to black and avoided the whole rainbow of colours in between. The colours being added to add structure to the training and also more revenue (paying for gradings/ more belts). The impression I got was that to get your black belt meant you had learned the basics and were now ready to really start studying, you had 'entered the courtyard'.

You had become a 'serious' student. It does seem a shame that some people would collect BB's from various styles with the thought that it made them wonderful. To me it feels as if they are belittling the arts by not continuing their studies. Having a BB should place a certain amount of responsibility on the shoulders of the onwer to show due respect to the art that gave it to him.

As for kids with black belts? There should, in my not very humble opinion, be a separate grade, that means that on reaching adulthood additional training should take place. Or that a BB cannot be given until the person has reached a responsible age. Unfortunately I think the powers of the mighty dollar will not allow this to happen (what parents are going to send their kid to a class where they cannot get a BB?)

What belt would I give myself, if I were to apply the above thoughts? Well..not totally sure, I have started teaching, both as a sub and at a separate group, but I would not necessarily count myself a 'black belt'. I do like to think myself as being a 'serious' student, that is continuing to study and develope my skills.

Post scripts: when I say serious student, I dont meant dour and po faced! We should enjoy what we do.
'Angry White Pyjamas' by Robert Twigger: Now this guy really earns his black belt! ouch!

Aldarion

24-Aug-2004, 09:34 PM

A black belt to me means that you have reached a certain plateau and it is basically just an accomplishment of some sort.

usagi

27-Aug-2004, 05:50 AM

I dont train Hapkido. Recieving a bb is the beginning of a longer and more intense learning/training period. I was very proud of receiving my bb. But I learned so much more the first year after. The university analogy is excellent Tittan.

My black belt means alot to me. My rank is a culmunation of all i've put into training. I hold some respect for most with a bb. But I respect you more if you can make me tap, or own me upright (or atleast give me a run).

When I was able to begin training I knew this was something I would be doing all my life. The level of skill (associated with the belt) is what I sought.

fester

19-Jan-2005, 10:43 AM

:) that your martial arts adventure is about to start :)

BackFistMonkey

19-Jan-2005, 04:00 PM

I am sorry if its been stated already ...

but it will just be another step on a long journey ... I will just a have a different colored belt

Be well Train Hard
BackFistMonkey

tswolfman

19-Jan-2005, 05:22 PM

Black Belt Just means to me that i have acomplished steping over into the realm of a new beginner and that the world awaits.

kevinyusul

20-Jan-2005, 05:23 AM

I trained for about 4 years to finally acheive my black belt and I was very pleased with my effort, gaining a black belt is meant to mean that you have successfully finished the basics and now have to learn how to use it and place it all together for the advanced study of the DAN grades, accordig to traditional philosphy.

Though from what I have seen lately in my association is that being recommeded for 2nd or 3rd or even 4th degree is that if you wait long enough turn up to a few things attend the grading and you will pass, no one ever seems to fail, so most of them technically are only at a 1st dan level, not really inspiring if yoiu are looking for the technical peers as they should be

Kevin

wild_pitch

20-Jan-2005, 02:47 PM

what a black belt means to you is directly related to how much respect you have for the person who gave it to you.

MacKiDo

24-Jan-2005, 08:32 PM

what a black belt means to you is directly related to how much respect you have for the person who gave it to you.

Whoa. Deep.

gaz shaw

24-Jan-2005, 08:45 PM

being a black belt is just a mile-stone.
i now know the basics of my martial arts but still have much to learn

(to many people get a black belt and then quit thinking that they are untouchable)

wild_pitch

24-Jan-2005, 08:54 PM

don't make me come over there mac.. i know where you work!

=)

Whoa. Deep.

Thomas

25-Jan-2005, 02:20 PM

what a black belt means to you is directly related to how much respect you have for the person who gave it to you.
I like that and feel the same way... I also like it taht at our school, our instructor puts his name on the belt ("Presented by Master...") so everyone knows where we come form... makes us keep an eye on ourselves too so we don't make him look bad!

RJ_Bushido

25-Jan-2005, 02:31 PM

i don't have a black belt but i guess it would mean that i have successed at finishing something and working hard to achieve my goal. It wouldn't mean i was better at anybody else but i would be pleased with myself.

MacKiDo

26-Jan-2005, 07:47 PM

don't make me come over there mac.. i know where you work!

=)

I'm not always being sarcastic. That was good - kind of like a martial arts hallmark card.

Booknewt

09-Feb-2005, 02:39 AM

"What does being a black belt mean to you?"

There is a club, very loose, to which everyone who holds a black-belt (or its equivalent) belongs. Being a black-belt means someone already in the club thought enough of you to make you a member. That's it.

Groucho-style, alot of us aren't too impressed with any club that would have us as a member.

korg20kbc

15-Feb-2005, 10:32 AM

All I know is to BEWARE OF THE DIRTY WHITE BELT

Jumper53

08-Mar-2005, 10:18 PM

When you get to Black Belt it is a symbol that you are now ready to start your training. You have proven your body, mind, and spirit are ready for the lessons the Master will show you.

But having seen many students test for Black belt over the years I know one thing. The Master usually does not test you until you stop caring so much about the symbol around your waist.