Strength Training

[kravi2]

So I shamelessly pirated my base plan off Starting Strength and then modified it a bit. Critiques welcome and hoped for. Is a two day routine which repeats, as I'm still a novice. As I'm training for strength (minus the two vanity exercises) I take a full 4 minute break between sets. Squats are by themselves, but I may do Presses and Curls, for example, at the same time.

Day 1:
Squats 3 x 5
Press 3 x 5
Deadlift 3 x 5
Pullups 3 x 5 (assisted for the most part)
EZBar Curls (purely for vanity) 3 x 5

Day 2:
Squats 3 x 5
Bench Press 3 x 5
Barbell Row 3 x 5
Chinups 3 x 5 (like pullups, assisted beyond the first couple)
Upright Rows (purely for vanity) 3 x 8

--Me

[47MartialMan]

Some will say, less sets, less reps, more weight gradually, for strength

[tonyv107]

SS was set up that way for a reason. If your aren't going to stick to that program why would it be any different if somebody tells you to change your current routine?

[YouKnowWho]

You should be the master of your weight. Just don't let the weight to become your master. If you "enjoy" your weight training, you may keep doing it for the rest of your life. The weight training suppose to be fun.

[kravi2]

SS was set up that way for a reason. If your aren't going to stick to that program why would it be any different if somebody tells you to change your current routine?

I'm assuming this comment was to 47MartialMan, and not me? I'm sticking to their program with a couple of additions, and sticking to the recommended 3 x 5 as well...

--Me

[Frodocious]

Seems reasonable use of the SS plan. Are you using the prescribed warm up sets as well as the main working sets?

I'm not a fan of upright rows, they can be damaging for your shoulders in the long term.

[kravi2]

Seems reasonable use of the SS plan. Are you using the prescribed warm up sets as well as the main working sets?

I'm not a fan of upright rows, they can be damaging for your shoulders in the long term.

Yeah, I'm doing plenty of warmup sets for each exercise, lubricating the joints as it is. I don't record them, but I certainly do them.

Upright rows can damage the shoulders? That is disturbing. To be honest, I'm doing them out of vanity (what man doesn't want a pair of shoulders) like the curls - everything else is purely for function. Do you have a recommendation of an alternative to the upright rows? I'd like something which strengthens the shoulders in balance, not just the front or sides of the shoulder.

--Me

[Frodocious]

The problem with upright rows is that they take the shoulder through a range of motion that can lead to impingement in people predisposed to the condition. If you're wanting some decent trap development then adding in shrugs (barbell or dumbbell) could help. For deltoids, a mix of delt and lateral raises could work and dips will also work your shoulders, triceps and a selection of other muscles.

Have a look round here:

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

for some ideas, but just be aware that it does list exercises that are not necessarily best for longterm joint health (like upright rows).

Adding in some extra row variations (inverted, dumbbell, chest supported) will help with back and shoulder development and balance out the pressing.

[kravi2]

Thanks for the response. Honestly, I'm just looking for one exercise that works :)

I've got a full body routine, just looking to finish off one day with some shoulder bulking exercises. The vanity, I know ;)

I thought also about Arnold Presses, as they seem to work everything as well, but settled for upright rows because they seem to work the entire delt more equally.

--Me

[Frodocious]

Thanks for the response. Honestly, I'm just looking for one exercise that works :)

I've got a full body routine, just looking to finish off one day with some shoulder bulking exercises. The vanity, I know ;)

I thought also about Arnold Presses, as they seem to work everything as well, but settled for upright rows because they seem to work the entire delt more equally.

--Me

Arnold presses are a good 'bang for your buck' exercise, but don't really hit the rear delt, maybe do those plus some rear delt raises to target the back of your shoulder. You may find that just adding in something for the rear delt is ok. The overhead pressing should hit the front of your shoulder nicely, so concentrating more on the rear might be a better strategy.

[seiken steve]

looks good to me.

I dislike upright rows because of my trick shoulder, if you can do them pain free then they are a pretty decent trap move. i like hang cleans and shrugs (both DB and BB) for growing my yoke.

for the curls, which you've said your self are for vainity (personaly i think heavy curls are a great movement but whatever) if your doing them for size gains a higher rep would be handy, how about a set of 5, set of 8-10 (still heavy) and then a much higher rep set to get the blood in (like 12-15)

just because its higher reps doesnt mean you've gotta use baby weights though.


FWIW i like the set up mate.

[kravi2]

Thanks Steve!

I do 3 x 8 for the upright rows (though I may switch to simple lat raises) for more hypertrophy.

For curls, though, I don't want or need significant hypertrophy. I like the strength gains by 3 x 5 and there is still enough hypertrophy to satisfy my vanity :)

--Me

[seiken steve]

fair one. my arms jut dont grow with low rep work, my last training partner got some pretty hefty guns on him of 3x3 and similar. i cant be bothered with the work it takes to make my arms grow, would rather put that time into my traps and lats!

[kravi2]

fair one. my arms jut dont grow with low rep work, my last training partner got some pretty hefty guns on him of 3x3 and similar. i cant be bothered with the work it takes to make my arms grow, would rather put that time into my traps and lats!

I know what you mean. I'm one of the lucky ones who puts on muscle pretty quickly. My problem, even eating primaly, is shedding body fat. As you can see in the routine I mapped out, I'm a big fan of working the back, which is why I've supplemented Starting Strength with "bonus" back exercises.

--Me

[Frodocious]

I know what you mean. I'm one of the lucky ones who puts on muscle pretty quickly. My problem, even eating primaly, is shedding body fat. As you can see in the routine I mapped out, I'm a big fan of working the back, which is why I've supplemented Starting Strength with "bonus" back exercises.

--Me

Everyone should work the back! Too many people ignore it and then get shoulder/postural problems!

[seiken steve]

my main gripe with starting strength is the lack of rows in there. getting a big, wide thick back helps all of your lifts and makes you look much larger an more muscular.

dave tate said that in comeptition the guys with huge chests or massive legs never really worried him, the guys with a big back always had him sweating.

i train in strongman, back and traps is like everyone elses chest and arms in that world.
my next program has both being hit twice a week while my chest gets worked every other week....

as for getting lean, a good clean diet and brutal conditioning work. efter every session do something that makes you want to die, prowlers, hills and sandbahs are good tools to start suicidal though processes.

[JaxMMA]

Bill Starr/Madcow 5x5 has rows.

http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/

[Kuma]

The base novice program of SS has the option of either cleans or rows. Really, that's what the OP should be doing. You want big arms? Squat, row, and press big weights. Bigger shoulders? Once you're pressing serious poundages overhead you can't help but have bigger shoulders.

In the words of the wise Paul Kelso - "There is no need to isolate or define a muscle until you actually have muscle to isolate or define."

People often think in strength training more is better, but that's not the case. Less is more. If you have the energy to mess around after doing three compound lifts in one day, you're not pushing yourself hard enough in the first three exercises.

[JaxMMA]

In the words of the wise Paul Kelso - "There is no need to isolate or define a muscle until you actually have muscle to isolate or define."


This is so true and why so many people don't get results they expected at the gym.

[flaming]

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=4781263
Thats an article I found usefull on dumbell rows I find them difficult to do correctly. But they're very effective for targeting the middle and lower traps according to this article
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/inside_the_muscles_best_back_and_biceps_exercises

[kravi2]

The base novice program of SS has the option of either cleans or rows. Really, that's what the OP should be doing...[snip]

Uh. I'm doing rows, it is in the routine ;) And pullups/chinups.

--Me

[Kuma]

Uh. I'm doing rows, it is in the routine ;) And pullups/chinups.

--Me

seiken steve said there was no rows, that was addressed to him.

What I was saying to you is there's no need to modify the routine. What you're currently adding is unnecessary. If you have the energy to fart around on accessory exercises after three compound lifts, you're not working your compound lifts hard enough.

[kravi2]

seiken steve said there was no rows, that was addressed to him.

What I was saying to you is there's no need to modify the routine. What you're currently adding is unnecessary. If you have the energy to fart around on accessory exercises after three compound lifts, you're not working your compound lifts hard enough.

Go away. Seriously.

--Me

[Kuma]

Go away. Seriously.

--Me

If you want to discount the advice of someone who used to be a welterweight and turned himself into a heavyweight through sensible weight training in a few short years, that's fine. Good luck on your program and I hope you don't hurt yourself when you go into overtraining. Because you most likely will if you're training at the intensity you should be.

[47MartialMan]

If you want to discount the advice of someone who used to be a welterweight and turned himself into a heavyweight through sensible weight training in a few short years, that's fine. Good luck on your program and I hope you don't hurt yourself when you go into overtraining. Because you most likely will if you're training at the intensity you should be.

I agree.

[kravi2]

If you want to discount the advice of someone who used to be a welterweight and turned himself into a heavyweight through sensible weight training in a few short years, that's fine. Good luck on your program and I hope you don't hurt yourself when you go into overtraining. Because you most likely will if you're training at the intensity you should be.

Ok, so what I don't want is comments like "farting around". Starting Strength is a linear progression. How can you fart around? I mean, I max weight each and every time I exercise (3 x 5), and am at the point of failure. It isn't like I'm just lifting the same weight over and over again...

Secondly, according to Rippetoe, novices can't overtrain. I do Starting Strength twice a week (including my mods) rather than 3. I am not getting close to overtraining.

Also, please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to be rude. I don't know you. You say you were a welterweight and turned yourself into a heavyweight. You may be a 300 pound 90 year old woman for all I know, and your abrasive comments about farting around and not working hard enough don't encourage me to want to listen to you or trust you. That's all I meant by "go away".

--Me

[Kuma]

Ok, so what I don't want is comments like "farting around". Starting Strength is a linear progression. How can you fart around? I mean, I max weight each and every time I exercise (3 x 5), and am at the point of failure. It isn't like I'm just lifting the same weight over and over again...

If you have the energy to do a bunch of accessory exercises after three main compound lifts, you're not pushing yourself hard enough on those three lifts. Hate to say it, but it's true. It's your body and your program though, so go ahead and do what you like.

Secondly, according to Rippetoe, novices can't overtrain. I do Starting Strength twice a week (including my mods) rather than 3. I am not getting close to overtraining.

If all you're doing is lifting, eating, and sleeping, sure it's a lot harder to overtrain. However, as martial artists, we can't neglect the skill portion. Like I said, it's your program, do what you want.

Also, please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to be rude. I don't know you. You say you were a welterweight and turned yourself into a heavyweight. You may be a 300 pound 90 year old woman for all I know, and your abrasive comments about farting around and not working hard enough don't encourage me to want to listen to you or trust you. That's all I meant by "go away".

I'm just a guy who competed in raw powerlifting and amateur strongman competitions for a while. Nothing exceptional in either area. Good luck with your program.

[Hannibal]

Also, please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to be rude. I don't know you. You say you were a welterweight and turned yourself into a heavyweight. You may be a 300 pound 90 year old woman for all I know, and your abrasive comments about farting around and not working hard enough don't encourage me to want to listen to you or trust you. That's all I meant by "go away".

--Me

But you don't know ANYONE on this board, so by logical extension why take any of this advice or even ask the question in the first place?

Sounds to me like you want validation not advice

[Old_kyokushin]

Go away. Seriously.

--Me

Ooooops! foot in mouth disease, I say! :eek:
If you don't know who you are talking to, maybe you should just shut up and listen for a little bit longer instead of asking for advice that you can't use and making comments that reveal so much about where you are at?


OSu!

[Knight_Errant]

Ok, so what I don't want is comments like "farting around". Starting Strength is a linear progression. How can you fart around?
Go away. Seriously.

--Me
This type of comment gives me the impression that you're far too sensitive to be lifting weights.