Arnis/Escrima to be part of SEA Games in 2005 ? What's next Olympics ?

[shoto-kali]

Read an news article last week that Escrima/Arnis is going to be part of SEA Games in 2005. The Philippine Government is doing their best and their power in conviencing the SEAG official for Arnis/Escrima to be part of SEAG sports.

For those not familiar of SEA Games; South-East Asian Games, its the counterpart of Asian style Olympics.

And I understand that if it will be a success next year then the Philippine Government and the SEAG official will apply for this style to be a 'RECOGNIZE OLYMPIC SPORT'.

any comments

[juramentado]

OMG No! No! No! :eek:

I've heard of this and I'm completely opposed to it. It will do more harm than good for FMA.

IMHO, turning an MA into a sport takes a lot from the MA. The style has to adapt to become a sport and that's where the damage happens. Techniques that are unsafe for matches get discarded and rules create impractical, competition-based training and strategy.

FMA was and should always be about combat. It's not simply a game of tag with sticks. It's about taking a machete and cutting down the enemy before he does the same to you. The moment FMA takes the plunge into becoming a sport, it will have to trade its blood soaked past for a completely emasculated future.

[xLJx]

yeah... heard about it about a couple of weeks ago... even showed the newspaper article to GM Presas and my co-students... we were pissed 'cuz the writer referred to Arnis as a 'lowly' MA (and he was Filipino!)...

I agree with juramentado... turning an MA into a sport can really damage the true essence of the MA. I think this is also the reason why TKD always gets bad remarks from people...

[shootodog]

hell yeah! why not? it's better than sipa (or takrau) as our national sport!

[juramentado]

hell yeah! why not? it's better than sipa (or takrau) as our national sport!

LOL you have a point there :D

[shootodog]

LOL you have a point there :D

does this mean you and the pitbull are trying out for the national team? ;) but seriously...wouldn't it be a kick in the pants to be able to use fma for God and country w/o being involved in a war? :D

[juramentado]

does this mean you and the pitbull are trying out for the national team? ;)

No, I mean I understand what your point..:) I'm only speaking for myself. I don't know what the rest of the Manila Pitbulls think. What we do as a group will depend on Guro Rommel and Tuhon Gaje.

but seriously...wouldn't it be a kick in the pants to be able to use fma for God and country w/o being involved in a war? :D

I'm more of a traditionalist and I prefer practicing FMA as it was intended. I have nothing against FMA practitioners who will join the sport. I'm too old anyway to make a difference; there are more than enough younger and better stickfighters here to beat their way to a gold medal. :D

My apprehension is based on what sport rules have done to the MAs that have tried to adapt to them. IMHO FMA will suffer the same fate.

[Silentblade]

Guro Rommel and Tuhon Gaje don't like sports. :D

I don't like sports too. I'm training to be a fighter, not a "sports" fighter. I am also a traditionalist.

[Silentblade]

Then what's next? FMA fused with MMA in olympic games?

Poor FMA.

[shootodog]

Then what's next? FMA fused with MMA in olympic games?

Poor FMA.

you sound familiar. dj is that you?

[Silentblade]

Yep. So familiar. :D

[shootodog]

Yep. So familiar. :D

hey! great!

arnis= better than sipa!

[Martelo3000]

I'm not against Kali adopting a sport outlet because it could be beneficial for the FMA in general, in terms of good exposure, and the prestige FMA deserves. Muay Thai is a sport and a martial art which is still respected. Look what UFC did for all grapple arts. Perhaps this is the time.

There are restrictions in sports and that is the only true danger, but how many true kalimen will hang up their blades or sticks in favour of padded weapons? Kali can have a sport, but the sport is not true kali. The Filipino arts will not be denigrated so long as its practitioners keep its combative spirit alive. When we practice full contact stick fighting (with mask and gloves using rattan sticks), we are being sportive because the head and hand targets are really taken away. But we learn to cultivate our fight spirit, test our mettle, and courage (because the threat of pain and injury is still there) so the excercise does help our combatitives.

So in my humble opinion, I believe the FMA could benefit from expansion and better exposure, so long as the Filipino martial arts community will actively protect the combative essence of the martial art.

[ketong71]

Read an news article last week that Escrima/Arnis is going to be part of SEA Games in 2005. The Philippine Government is doing their best and their power in conviencing the SEAG official for Arnis/Escrima to be part of SEAG sports.

For those not familiar of SEA Games; South-East Asian Games, its the counterpart of Asian style Olympics.

And I understand that if it will be a success next year then the Philippine Government and the SEAG official will apply for this style to be a 'RECOGNIZE OLYMPIC SPORT'.

any comments

Actually, Arnis was introduced as a Sport for the SEA Games back in 1991, when Manila hosted the games. The contestants wore head gear and padded armor. They used padded weapons as well. I didn't like the tournament for they were just wailing at each other with the padded sticks. Made them look really silly and you wouldn't understand who was really winning until the referee called the point. IMHO, they should have used real yantok since they were already using armor. Plus, they should adopt a point system, something like kendo or fencing, instead of having a sort of "full contact", continuous bout. Think about it, in a real Arnis match, if you get hit squarely on the face with a kamagong or a kris, do you think you can keep going? I don't think so. Anyway, just my dalawang sentimos (P.02) worth.

Regards,

Ketong71

[Bayani]

As it is, FMA back here in the Philippines is already thought by most as "stickfighting" only. Add the rules to keep things safe then you will have a "bara -bara" (all out ) exchange of hits that won't require much skill just a lot of stamina. This is an art that is very much based on combat ...we are weapons based. Unless rules are created that allow for skill to be demonstrated in such a way as to keep both combatants safe then the sports version of the arts will still be unpalatable to most of the viewing public. The closest version of sport and combat tied together is being practiced by systems that have limited protective gear. Yet with the computer system protected (headgear) , the need to learn grappling is a must as those without weapons skills will just crash their way in for the take down-something that would never happen if it were knives and blades. But to play this way.. a gladiator style...FUN FUN FUN !!! To promote the art though? Mot many would like to see it done that way.
Maybe if we could create some gear similar to fencing sensitive enough to judge real impact as opposed to taps to avoid a game of tag and count only in certain places that other wise would be serious areas to be hit to disallow exhanges of hits without really understanding what you are giving up or not knowing what you are hitting ( I can't stand flailers or baton twirlers) could we have a better gauge but that's left for us to dream and others to create. No money in funding the FMA back home which brings us back to asking should FMA be turned into a version of sports just so as to get some Governmental support?. If so I just hope that they make sure to educate the viewers where the sport came from, show the combative application so as not to confuse the fighting art from the sport version. One of the ways we spar is not to spar to try to beat your opponent but spar to bring out what you have learned in training. This avoids the "bara-bara" style and skill is brought out, In doing so the development of such training brings out skilled fighters able to showcase the art and still beat the crap of their unskilled opponents.

Anybody can wield a weapon- 80% of my physical training is weapons based- I strive to be the skilled marksman of my trade. 20% only for emptyhands? Specifics yes..but what wields the weapon? Our body does so you can say 100% emptyhands. As we put it, emptyhands? why should I lower myself to your level and fight without weapons! :D I have a proven Historical past so I'll stick with what is proven effective. I fight only to survive and History has shown that the one with weapons has a higher % of surviving the fight! but fight without weapons? can do too. Just trying not to get my clothes dirty.

[ketong71]

"bara-bara" (all out)

Boy, I haven't heard that term in awhile. Been here in da Big Epol por too long. Do you remember which TV commercial made this term really famous? If you were watching a lot of TV in the Philippines during the late '70s and early '80s, you'd remember which commercial, what product being endorsed and who were the celebrities promoting the product. Sirit ka na ba? (Give up?)

Regards,

Ketong71

[shootodog]

Boy, I haven't heard that term in awhile. Been here in da Big Epol por too long. Do you remember which TV commercial made this term really famous? If you were watching a lot of TV in the Philippines during the late '70s and early '80s, you'd remember which commercial, what product being endorsed and who were the celebrities promoting the product. Sirit ka na ba? (Give up?)

Regards,

Ketong71

are you refering to the huwag kang bara bara bai! commercial?

[ketong71]

are you refering to the huwag kang bara bara bai! commercial?

Yep!!! That's the one! Do you remember the stars of that commercial? I loved those series of commercials. That and "Isang platitong mani" (one saurcer of peanuts).

Regards,

Ketong71

[ketong71]

Anyway, going back to the topic (or at least close enough to it), I think it is inevitable that Arnis/Escrima becomes a sport, whether people like it or not. As some people mentioned, I think it would be a good thing as long as the rules don't water down the art. The rules they used in the 1991 SEA Games were just horrible, IMHO. I think they should adopt the Blade Simulator Competition Rules of Atienza Kali (http://www.atienza-kali.com/video/bladesimweb.mov). What do you think?

Regards,

Ketong71

[Bayani]

Having rules will water down the art or will loose some of it's true combative realism that's the price we have to pay in exchange for exposure or public acceptance. I was pondering the other day how many FMA systems have become "schools" Just how far back do they go to have begun teaching a system with a set curiculum to follow? Most family systems that I have had the pleasure of trainin gin and the ones that I feel I have benefited the most were handed down from student to teacher and the lessons were taught without set patterns but instinctive training based on the needs of the student. So much is lost when a system has to be taught in a public setting, things have to formalized so you have something to gauge where and what a student knows...more like the Eastern arts that have belt systems. What is usally taught in the backyards for hours are now replaced with the time element of set days hours and patterns of a commercialized school, the one on one element is lost in what is replaced as group training. The structured sets of warm ups, forms, drills, sparring become familiar rather than the question and answer phase or whatever manong feels like doing today...may have been something he saw in your previous session or something you had discussed with him when talking about the arts. The best is when Manong feels like reliving his training days and wants to pass on the same feeling that he had when he trained in the days of old. Just you, Manong and nature..You can feel the passed on energy of his instructors and their instructors through the ages being handed down to you.You can feel it in your bones...in your blood. The traditional arts don't care what level you are in, it's all based on what you know, how much time you have spent and really about your skills. No names for things or techniques just a question and answer, what do I do if? what would you do if? And the drills presented are sometimes created on the spot because drills are nothing more than tools to answer a certain question not just teach mechanics or learned memorized behavior. That 's a problem when you have set drills in set schools where If I may use sumbrada as an example...people tend to get good at this drill but get totally lost when the partner does not follow the pre set sequence, Isn't drilling suppossed to teach you how to fight? And isn't fighting not pre set? Some seek to learn more drills and more variations forgetting what drills are meant to be- a safe way to mimic fighting without killing the guy in front of you. I'm Not argueing the point of set drills just telling you my experiences with traditional "home training" , Most of my Manongs don't like to drill..."laro na lang" (just play) meaning...screw it! Let me see you use what you have learned by fighting me! Whatever drill i have done in training I did so with anxiety mixed in because no matter how pre set the moves may be, My Manongs would always add an intensity that you would swear he was out to hit you. If and when he caught you moving without intent like it was fighting or you were anticipating the moves because you have memorized the next step. He would get out of the drill and hit you in places you wish you had protected...same focus that you should have in an unscripted fight. " HOy! Ebery mub should be like da pirs time ha!" Sorry just remembering the way he talks. Whoa! where am I headed with this? Sorry got out of track and carried away.

[pepe]

having the FMA sport in the sea games and in the olympics is a welcome thought. however, i see it as a task daunting for some pinoys.

seriously, every tom(mas), ****(son) and harry(to) who wish to have the fma as a sport will contend with the rules to be set. i hope that the best techniques be shown and not the "bara-bara" type we often see in WEKAF and ARPI competitions. my praise for the atienza brothers on their blade simulator rules. i hope that the committee tasked will not be a political one and be totally biased in its view of the art. also for the so called "purists" who say that a sport side of fma is bull, i respect your opinion but i feel dissapointed for the selfishness expressed. if the old masters had their differences then, how come with inflated egos and false loyalties it can evolve in to something better and of pride for and from the Filipinos.

in the philippines, its showbiz, sports (gambling) and politics are popular. given this 3, i personally have my reservations as to the success of the initiative if and when it flies.

that's life ;)

let's just train smart and enjoy this journey.